Is the IMF just a nagging bitch?
Discussion
Sorry, perhaps I'm wrong on this being unversed [sp] in the finer details of macro economics, but as far as I can read (again in the FT today) all the IMF does is just throw back facts at EU countries that everyone already knew, just with a little added bile and "look at America - see how green and lovely and rich they are, while you're there on your fat, languid arses with record post-war unemployment (Germany), massive treaty-bashing Government borrowing (France) and unsustainable spending plans (Blighty)"
Fair enough if they link it to something, like pinning the blame on specific Government policies, or preferably Gordon the Gopher, but it just seems to me at least as though it's a case of "oo, don't like yours much". Any thoughts?
Fair enough if they link it to something, like pinning the blame on specific Government policies, or preferably Gordon the Gopher, but it just seems to me at least as though it's a case of "oo, don't like yours much". Any thoughts?
stumartin said:
Sorry, perhaps I'm wrong on this being unversed [sp] in the finer details of macro economics, but as far as I can read (again in the FT today) all the IMF does is just throw back facts at EU countries that everyone already knew, just with a little added bile and "look at America - see how green and lovely and rich they are, while you're there on your fat, languid arses with record post-war unemployment (Germany), massive treaty-bashing Government borrowing (France) and unsustainable spending plans (Blighty)"
Fair enough if they link it to something, like pinning the blame on specific Government policies, or preferably Gordon the Gopher, but it just seems to me at least as though it's a case of "oo, don't like yours much". Any thoughts?
It would be very politically controversial if they were to link these problems to particular policies/people-and the IMF is ultimately partly controlled by the very countries it criticises.
As to what they say it seems pretty clear cut the UK government cannot keep on increasing spending at it's current rate and that other European countries need to consider some serious economic reforms-if what they are saying is true-what is the problem?
JagLover said:
As to what they say it seems pretty clear cut the UK government cannot keep on increasing spending at it's current rate and that other European countries need to consider some serious economic reforms-if what they are saying is true-what is the problem?
Absolutely...
The problem is that there is no news there and even the FT needs to "embelish" things a little. In this case it does look like that Europe is singled out as being some poorly run area (which it is to a certain degree, but certainly not as bad as the IMF might way).
But as stumartin points out - the US economy is growning, but suffers the highest trade deficit figures ever and a currency which is getting weaker and weaker with no real sign of recovery. Yet the President feels the way forward is tax cuts to boost spending...... riiigght.... that will work.... The US is a financial dominator, but its hardly the paragon of a well run economy and hasnt been for some time.....
Balance is what we need - and it seems to be missing from a considerable amount of modern UK media output.
off_again said:
Absolutely...
The problem is that there is no news there and even the FT needs to "embelish" things a little. In this case it does look like that Europe is singled out as being some poorly run area (which it is to a certain degree, but certainly not as bad as the IMF might way).
But as stumartin points out - the US economy is growning, but suffers the highest trade deficit figures ever and a currency which is getting weaker and weaker with no real sign of recovery. Yet the President feels the way forward is tax cuts to boost spending...... riiigght.... that will work.... The US is a financial dominator, but its hardly the paragon of a well run economy and hasnt been for some time.....
Balance is what we need - and it seems to be missing from a considerable amount of modern UK media output.
I think the problems in Europe and America are completely different though. The USA has macroeconmic problems brought about by a too loose fiscal policy combined with very low interest rates (which has encouraged private borrowing)-the result is clear for all to see mounting trade deficits and a weakening currency. The USA still reamins however a very dynamic economy.
The problems in Europe are structural-Ossified economies that have been strangled through over regulation and high taxation.
JagLover said:
As to what they say it seems pretty clear cut the UK government cannot keep on increasing spending at it's current rate and that other European countries need to consider some serious economic reforms-if what they are saying is true-what is the problem?
The problem is that it's been said before - they're not really saying anything new, so what's the point in saying it? The USA might still be a dynamic economy, but it's nevertheless deeply troubled and shouldn't IMO be seen as an 'ideal' to be persued. Europe's big economies are facing problems, we all know that, but the solution isn't simply to look to the US model - as you say Jaglover, the issues aren't really comparable.
stumartin said:
The problem is that it's been said before - they're not really saying anything new, so what's the point in saying it? The USA might still be a dynamic economy, but it's nevertheless deeply troubled and shouldn't IMO be seen as an 'ideal' to be persued. Europe's big economies are facing problems, we all know that, but the solution isn't simply to look to the US model - as you say Jaglover, the issues aren't really comparable.
That is true there is a big culture difference between the USA and Europe. For instance I understand that during recent welfare reforms in the States that a set a time limit on benefit claimants, a maximum number of years you can be on benefit (over your lifetime)-once you exceed that limit you are on your own-can you imagine such a policy in Europe.
However to reform their economies Europe will have to move to a more free market model-whether or not they take the USA as a guide or not-it will just have to be compatable with their own social model.
stumartin said:
Sorry, perhaps I'm wrong on this being unversed [sp] in the finer details of macro economics, but as far as I can read (again in the FT today) all the IMF does is just throw back facts at EU countries that everyone already knew, just with a little added bile and "look at America - see how green and lovely and rich they are, while you're there on your fat, languid arses with record post-war unemployment (Germany), massive treaty-bashing Government borrowing (France) and unsustainable spending plans (Blighty)"
Fair enough if they link it to something, like pinning the blame on specific Government policies, or preferably Gordon the Gopher, but it just seems to me at least as though it's a case of "oo, don't like yours much". Any thoughts?
I'd better do some checking on www.economist.com before commenting. is a bit detached from my day to day business humdrum.
suffice to say, any words of "wisdom" from bodies such as the EU/IMF/UN/OECD bear little relevance to the real world.
glorified, pretentious, over-paid and under-worked mandarins/civil servants, the lot of them.
i'll stick with the view of the economist and www.wsj.com - journalists are far, far from being the oracle, but they live in the real world an itsy-bisty-teeny-weeny bit more.
:-)
egoboss said:
I'd better do some checking on www.economist.com before commenting. is a bit detached from my day to day business humdrum.
suffice to say, any words of "wisdom" from bodies such as the EU/IMF/UN/OECD bear little relevance to the real world.
glorified, pretentious, over-paid and under-worked mandarins/civil servants, the lot of them.
i'll stick with the view of the economist and www.wsj.com - journalists are far, far from being the oracle, but they live in the real world an itsy-bisty-teeny-weeny bit more.
:-)
Yes I rely on 'The Economist' for my weekly dose of reality on Economic matters-Speaking of which did you read their hilarious article this week about the latest media hyped health scare.
JagLover said:
I'd better do some checking on <a href="http://www.economist.com">www.economist.com</a> before commenting. is a bit detached from my day to day business humdrum.
suffice to say, any words of "wisdom" from bodies such as the EU/IMF/UN/OECD bear little relevance to the real world.
glorified, pretentious, over-paid and under-worked mandarins/civil servants, the lot of them.
i'll stick with the view of the economist and <a href="http://www.wsj.com">www.wsj.com</a> - journalists are far, far from being the oracle, but they live in the real world an itsy-bisty-teeny-weeny bit more.
:-)
Yes I rely on 'The Economist' for my weekly dose of reality on Economic matters-Speaking of which did you read their hilarious article this week about the latest media hyped health scare.
not read that piece as yet. you know what it's like, finding time to properly do justice to read/absorb/appreciate all the wonderful analysis/observations/wit in each week's issue - i tend to use my online account a wee bit too much for my sanity fix from the economist.
but the web version although of course the same text is no substitute for being sat back, wine in hand, leafing through the mostly spot-on observations therein. i still haven't finished the always excellent xmas issue! not the spectator's nor the oldie's nor private eye's .... maybe i use the www too much nowadays, tut tut!
i shall check the media-hyper/health piece, now you mention it!
the "big mac index" - economics has never been better summed up!
stuff the EU/IMF/OECD/UN. (in that order!).
harrumphh!!!
:-)
egoboss said:
not read that piece as yet. you know what it's like, finding time to properly do justice to read/absorb/appreciate all the wonderful analysis/observations/wit in each week's issue - i tend to use my online account a wee bit too much for my sanity fix from the economist.
but the web version although of course the same text is no substitute for being sat back, wine in hand, leafing through the mostly spot-on observations therein. i still haven't finished the always excellent xmas issue! not the spectator's nor the oldie's nor private eye's .... maybe i use the www too much nowadays, tut tut!
i shall check the media-hyper/health piece, now you mention it!
the "big mac index" - economics has never been better summed up!
stuff the EU/IMF/OECD/UN. (in that order!).
harrumphh!!!
:-)
I have the same problem I haven't completely finished the last four economists yet.
The article about the food scare is in the British section.
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