V12VR exhaust switch
Discussion
My car is just being built at the factory and I am considering getting an exhaust bypass switch fitted. I would rather have a switch hard wired than use the key fob alternative. As this is a brand new car would I be better asking Aston to fit this? Any idea which one they would use? Which would you recommend? I have found historic posts but thought I'd get an update. Thanks!
Would they actually do it though? I thought the valves opening at a certain revs were due to noise and/or emmisions requirements. You would be asking them to actually fit something to counteract the requirement???
Cant answer the alternative option but i think DAE or BR do a steering column mounted option, im sure someone will be along from the 2 camps to confirm??
Nice choice of car by way!
Cant answer the alternative option but i think DAE or BR do a steering column mounted option, im sure someone will be along from the 2 camps to confirm??
Nice choice of car by way!
petop said:
Would they actually do it though? I thought the valves opening at a certain revs were due to noise and/or emmisions requirements. You would be asking them to actually fit something to counteract the requirement???
It's nothing that Jaguar don't do as standard on their F Type R so I'd be surprised if there was a rule saying that they couldn't.Edited to add. Doesn't this just happen in 'sport' mode anyway?
Edited by The Surveyor on Wednesday 1st June 09:53
If in normal mode or sport mode the car must pass regardless the noise drive by max db test. The purpose of the valve is to make the car pass the test when inside test conditions (quiet mode) and help make whatever exhaust noise the car likes because there is little legislation when outside the test parameters (when the ECU opens valves for loud mode). I would of thought by now the legislative bodies would have outlawed totally silencer valves because their very existence is a defeat device, and we all know (VW) how that is frowned upon.
However, What's stopping any factory putting in a switch at build is the vehicle certification agency! Because a switch to control in loud mode is a noise drive by defeat device. If Jag do it???? It's because perhaps the VCA hasnt nobbled um yet to illuminate a MIL for non functioning system - but they soon will do, normally cos other auto makers complain.
On early models if the fuse to control bypass valves was pulled the Pcode 1488 would trigger but in background and not result in check engine light on dash. The fuse being pulled and consumer defeating the noise drive by test by not illuminating a dashboard failure lamp was 'corrected' by VCA now causing a MIL meaning a switch on newer model cars will need to either mechanically fool the ECU the system is present or require ECU reflash turning the fault code off, both presumably invalidating warranty so if I was the OP I would proceed with great caution, a warranty is something to cling on to dearly!
However, What's stopping any factory putting in a switch at build is the vehicle certification agency! Because a switch to control in loud mode is a noise drive by defeat device. If Jag do it???? It's because perhaps the VCA hasnt nobbled um yet to illuminate a MIL for non functioning system - but they soon will do, normally cos other auto makers complain.
On early models if the fuse to control bypass valves was pulled the Pcode 1488 would trigger but in background and not result in check engine light on dash. The fuse being pulled and consumer defeating the noise drive by test by not illuminating a dashboard failure lamp was 'corrected' by VCA now causing a MIL meaning a switch on newer model cars will need to either mechanically fool the ECU the system is present or require ECU reflash turning the fault code off, both presumably invalidating warranty so if I was the OP I would proceed with great caution, a warranty is something to cling on to dearly!
Thanks Mike, it certainly sounds more complicated than when I had a switch fitted to control the exhaust valves in the Capristo on my F355!
Do you have any view on the remote control valve opening options?
On my previous Vantage the valves were wired open permanently, but I would prefer control if possible as noisy isn't always best...
Do you have any view on the remote control valve opening options?
On my previous Vantage the valves were wired open permanently, but I would prefer control if possible as noisy isn't always best...
notax said:
Thanks Mike, it certainly sounds more complicated than when I had a switch fitted to control the exhaust valves in the Capristo on my F355!
Do you have any view on the remote control valve opening options?
On my previous Vantage the valves were wired open permanently, but I would prefer control if possible as noisy isn't always best...
In essence it's the same task on your new car, like it was on the old. The only difference now being the kit which makes up the switch, be it a toggle switch or remote fob, will have to include means of not illuminating the MIL lamp when valves are defeating the noise drive by test - which only occurs on newer carsDo you have any view on the remote control valve opening options?
On my previous Vantage the valves were wired open permanently, but I would prefer control if possible as noisy isn't always best...
BamfordMike said:
....
However, What's stopping any factory putting in a switch at build is the vehicle certification agency! Because a switch to control in loud mode is a noise drive by defeat device. If Jag do it???? It's because perhaps the VCA hasnt nobbled um yet to illuminate a MIL for non functioning system - but they soon will do, normally cos other auto makers complain....
Copied off Jaguars F Type website as a headline feature:-However, What's stopping any factory putting in a switch at build is the vehicle certification agency! Because a switch to control in loud mode is a noise drive by defeat device. If Jag do it???? It's because perhaps the VCA hasnt nobbled um yet to illuminate a MIL for non functioning system - but they soon will do, normally cos other auto makers complain....
"F‑TYPE S, F-TYPE S AWD, F-TYPE R and F-TYPE R AWD have a Switchable Active Exhaust allowing manual control of the system, for even greater driver involvement. "
They aren't making any secret of the ability to manually switch the exhaust to 'loud' mode.
Thanks, no idea if the kits can stop the illumination of the MIL switch. I have found an example of the remote type, but I guess this will just adjust the valves and do nothing about the MIL light:
http://www.cccharger.co.uk/#!product/prd1/44132030...
I did find an old thread on PH stating that the factory fitted a system for someone else on a new car(thought to have been produced by Prodrive from memory) so will give Aston a call and see what comes of it. Having only had a brief test drive I can't honestly remember how loud the standard V12S is, but I do remember it sounded stunning!
http://www.cccharger.co.uk/#!product/prd1/44132030...
I did find an old thread on PH stating that the factory fitted a system for someone else on a new car(thought to have been produced by Prodrive from memory) so will give Aston a call and see what comes of it. Having only had a brief test drive I can't honestly remember how loud the standard V12S is, but I do remember it sounded stunning!
Edited by notax on Wednesday 1st June 13:06
BamfordMike said:
On early models if the fuse to control bypass valves was pulled the Pcode 1488 would trigger but in background and not result in check engine light on dash. The fuse being pulled and consumer defeating the noise drive by test by not illuminating a dashboard failure lamp was 'corrected' by VCA now causing a MIL meaning a switch on newer model cars will need to either mechanically fool the ECU the system is present or require ECU reflash turning the fault code off, both presumably invalidating warranty so if I was the OP I would proceed with great caution, a warranty is something to cling on to dearly!
I have a 2015 V8V GT. I pulled fuse 15, the service department at the Aston dealer told me they will open the valves physically and can reverse it at any time, but they charge several $200 dollars. Also told me I can pull the fuse, just replace it once in awhile to keep the valves operational. Now your saying I have invalidated my warranty, I call B*** S*** on this? What if a fuze burns out on its own, that's what fuzes are for. The bypass switch works on the same principle, it defeats the fuze. That is essentially the same thing. I'd see Aston in court if they said my warranty was void, and I would win! You guys must have some crazy laws over there in the UK.Well, I have now heard back from the factory and they WILL fit a switch retrospectively. I guess once the car has been built to meet the regulations they are free to modify it - although as posted earlier Jaguar and Porsche both sell cars with 'loud' switches fitted as standard so I can't see there would be a problem.
This is what the factory have told me:
'Reference exhaust switch yes we can retro fit these for circa £350+vat, also what some clients have is to remove the secondary cat and replace with a quicksilver straight through section again I can investigate if you would like me to'
Has anyone else used the Quicksilver pipes? Any views?
This is what the factory have told me:
'Reference exhaust switch yes we can retro fit these for circa £350+vat, also what some clients have is to remove the secondary cat and replace with a quicksilver straight through section again I can investigate if you would like me to'
Has anyone else used the Quicksilver pipes? Any views?
notax said:
Well, I have now heard back from the factory and they WILL fit a switch retrospectively. I guess once the car has been built to meet the regulations they are free to modify it - although as posted earlier Jaguar and Porsche both sell cars with 'loud' switches fitted as standard so I can't see there would be a problem.
This is what the factory have told me:
'Reference exhaust switch yes we can retro fit these for circa £350+vat, also what some clients have is to remove the secondary cat
Did you really mean to say 'Factory' or was your communication from the 'dealer? This is what the factory have told me:
'Reference exhaust switch yes we can retro fit these for circa £350+vat, also what some clients have is to remove the secondary cat
I guess dealer because you are quoted a price and a product which is not a franchised dealer standard offered from factory optional extra / specification fitted at point of build of car offered from factory.
I suppose a dealer can do whatever they wish to a car once it has left the factory built to the homologated spec, if decats were fitted and engine then failed (like CraigsV12V) would a warranty claim be honoured? or in making profit from the modification, means the dealer is happy to take on board any liability if operating outside the restrictions factory stipulates to honour a warranty claim (keeping spec OEM). In the example of CriagV12V engine failure, what would have been the course of action if Craig had decats and an aftermarket silencer? exchange the engine as they did (circa £25k fee) or wriggle out of a claim?
If factory directly stated something like, "yeah, we will fit a button before car leaves this factory to defeat the noise drive-by tests we just had to pass to sell the car for £350" - Wiskey Oscar Wiskey!
Well, I am dealing directly with the factory - or at least with the guys at Newport Pagnell which I guess is the same thing? The email has come from Aston Martin, I haven't explicitly asked about any impact on the warranty, but the fact that I have an email from them, discussing other options on my order, which includes the offer to fit the parts I refer to, would stand me in very good stead if the engine were to go pop in my opinion...
I guess the secondary cats are the ones in the exhaust system and the primaries are on the exhaust manifolds? I would imagine that replacing those on the manifold should be the priority given how bizarrely close to the engine they are? The switch seems good value to me with the Aston stamp of approval - although I'd be paying about £300 more than I would for a non approved one!
I guess the secondary cats are the ones in the exhaust system and the primaries are on the exhaust manifolds? I would imagine that replacing those on the manifold should be the priority given how bizarrely close to the engine they are? The switch seems good value to me with the Aston stamp of approval - although I'd be paying about £300 more than I would for a non approved one!
notax said:
Well, I am dealing directly with the factory - or at least with the guys at Newport Pagnell which I guess is the same thing? The email has come from Aston Martin, I haven't explicitly asked about any impact on the warranty, but the fact that I have an email from them, discussing other options on my order, which includes the offer to fit the parts I refer to, would stand me in very good stead if the engine were to go pop in my opinion...
I guess the secondary cats are the ones in the exhaust system and the primaries are on the exhaust manifolds? I would imagine that replacing those on the manifold should be the priority given how bizarrely close to the engine they are? The switch seems good value to me with the Aston stamp of approval - although I'd be paying about £300 more than I would for a non approved one!
From the sounds of it, those are the words of a dealer, the factory is anybody at Gaydon. Newport Pagnell is not a production site nor responsible for producing a car to meet an homologated spec. So the switch is 'approved' by dealer not by factory and i guess you will never see such a switch offered by factory as an optional extra spec, therefore whatever way you cut it, the switch is not OEMI guess the secondary cats are the ones in the exhaust system and the primaries are on the exhaust manifolds? I would imagine that replacing those on the manifold should be the priority given how bizarrely close to the engine they are? The switch seems good value to me with the Aston stamp of approval - although I'd be paying about £300 more than I would for a non approved one!
Indeed, if the engine went pop and dealer fitted the decat kit, in the case Aston would not cover the warranty, the dealer surely will have to, or what a stink that would be.
V8 Vantage GT said:
BamfordMike said:
On early models if the fuse to control bypass valves was pulled the Pcode 1488 would trigger but in background and not result in check engine light on dash. The fuse being pulled and consumer defeating the noise drive by test by not illuminating a dashboard failure lamp was 'corrected' by VCA now causing a MIL meaning a switch on newer model cars will need to either mechanically fool the ECU the system is present or require ECU reflash turning the fault code off, both presumably invalidating warranty so if I was the OP I would proceed with great caution, a warranty is something to cling on to dearly!
I have a 2015 V8V GT. I pulled fuse 15, the service department at the Aston dealer told me they will open the valves physically and can reverse it at any time, but they charge several $200 dollars. Also told me I can pull the fuse, just replace it once in awhile to keep the valves operational. Now your saying I have invalidated my warranty, I call B*** S*** on this? What if a fuze burns out on its own, that's what fuzes are for. The bypass switch works on the same principle, it defeats the fuze. That is essentially the same thing. I'd see Aston in court if they said my warranty was void, and I would win! You guys must have some crazy laws over there in the UK.I said that to overcome the MIL on a BOSCH EMS V12VR when the exhaust bypass valve function was overridden by a switch, the ECU will need a reflash or the physical parts will need to operate normally (somehow) to fool the ECU the system was intact - what's that got to do with pulling fuse 15 on a Ford ECU V8?
If an ECU reflash route - hell yeah warranty is invalidated - no??
The Surveyor said:
BamfordMike said:
....
However, What's stopping any factory putting in a switch at build is the vehicle certification agency! Because a switch to control in loud mode is a noise drive by defeat device. If Jag do it???? It's because perhaps the VCA hasnt nobbled um yet to illuminate a MIL for non functioning system - but they soon will do, normally cos other auto makers complain....
Copied off Jaguars F Type website as a headline feature:-However, What's stopping any factory putting in a switch at build is the vehicle certification agency! Because a switch to control in loud mode is a noise drive by defeat device. If Jag do it???? It's because perhaps the VCA hasnt nobbled um yet to illuminate a MIL for non functioning system - but they soon will do, normally cos other auto makers complain....
"F?TYPE S, F-TYPE S AWD, F-TYPE R and F-TYPE R AWD have a Switchable Active Exhaust allowing manual control of the system, for even greater driver involvement. "
They aren't making any secret of the ability to manually switch the exhaust to 'loud' mode.
But when i read "Switchable Active Exhaust allowing manual control of the system, for even greater driver involvement" i don't entirely understand that statement to mean the same as a switch being discussed here which is a direct cut / defeat device? Are you sure when making no secret about putting the exhaust in manual modes, they still refer to modes that whilst being manually controlled, might all still meet the noise drive-by db limits? and they are just subtly different valve control maps which set the valves on/off where needed by legislation?
If not and the test rules are being stretched - like interpreting the test can be performed in cruise control but then have different responses when driving the car using the pedal, these are all short lived loop holes which when another car company complains, will be tightened and stopped!
BamfordMike said:
The Surveyor said:
BamfordMike said:
....
However, What's stopping any factory putting in a switch at build is the vehicle certification agency! Because a switch to control in loud mode is a noise drive by defeat device. If Jag do it???? It's because perhaps the VCA hasnt nobbled um yet to illuminate a MIL for non functioning system - but they soon will do, normally cos other auto makers complain....
Copied off Jaguars F Type website as a headline feature:-However, What's stopping any factory putting in a switch at build is the vehicle certification agency! Because a switch to control in loud mode is a noise drive by defeat device. If Jag do it???? It's because perhaps the VCA hasnt nobbled um yet to illuminate a MIL for non functioning system - but they soon will do, normally cos other auto makers complain....
"F?TYPE S, F-TYPE S AWD, F-TYPE R and F-TYPE R AWD have a Switchable Active Exhaust allowing manual control of the system, for even greater driver involvement. "
They aren't making any secret of the ability to manually switch the exhaust to 'loud' mode.
But when i read "Switchable Active Exhaust allowing manual control of the system, for even greater driver involvement" i don't entirely understand that statement to mean the same as a switch being discussed here which is a direct cut / defeat device? Are you sure when making no secret about putting the exhaust in manual modes, they still refer to modes that whilst being manually controlled, might all still meet the noise drive-by db limits? and they are just subtly different valve control maps which set the valves on/off where needed by legislation?
If not and the test rules are being stretched - like interpreting the test can be performed in cruise control but then have different responses when driving the car using the pedal, these are all short lived loop holes which when another car company complains, will be tightened and stopped!
alscar said:
Notax , I had works take off the second set of cats along with the qs replacements.
I also had them put in writing the fact that the warranty would be unaffected.
That was sufficient enough for me.
The noise when " switched " on is simply sublime.
Thanks, so you opted for the switch as well as the cat bypass? Did you get them both done together? It would be interesting to know how much difference the removal of the cats makes. Can you confirm which cats they removed? I guess it wasn't the ones on the manifold - even though they seem to be the cause of the few engine disasters I've read about? Good idea getting confirmation from Aston in writing, to be safe I should probably do the same...I also had them put in writing the fact that the warranty would be unaffected.
That was sufficient enough for me.
The noise when " switched " on is simply sublime.
BamfordMike said:
B***s***? or you need to fine tune your reading and understanding ability?
I said that to overcome the MIL on a BOSCH EMS V12VR when the exhaust bypass valve function was overridden by a switch, the ECU will need a reflash or the physical parts will need to operate normally (somehow) to fool the ECU the system was intact - what's that got to do with pulling fuse 15 on a Ford ECU V8?
If an ECU reflash route - hell yeah warranty is invalidated - no??
Pardon me for the misunderstanding. Maybe if you didn't type in "run on" sentences, I would have understood.I said that to overcome the MIL on a BOSCH EMS V12VR when the exhaust bypass valve function was overridden by a switch, the ECU will need a reflash or the physical parts will need to operate normally (somehow) to fool the ECU the system was intact - what's that got to do with pulling fuse 15 on a Ford ECU V8?
If an ECU reflash route - hell yeah warranty is invalidated - no??
Gassing Station | Aston Martin | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff