House purchase - planning permission for new estate

[SuperVM]

My wife and I are in the process of moving from inside the M25 to what we hope will be a quieter life further South. We accepted an offer on our house a month or so ago and found a house we would like to purchase about two weeks ago. The sellers accepted our offer and before we got to the stage of doing searches, we found that there is planning permission for 150+ houses in the field behind the house as well as another 150+ houses in the field behind that field. The issues from our point of view:

• The sellers must have been aware of this and even when discussing how nice it was that the house backed onto fields, didn't mention it. Given the state of housing in the South, I was always wary the field could be built on, but not quite so soon.
• We will have to put up with years of disruption.
• The affordable housing provided by the new estate will be at the end of the garden. I know there is an element of snobbery in there, but should we ever need to sell the house, I am sure it will be a factor.

We still like the house and plan on being in it for a long time, but feel perhaps the short to medium term risk associated with the new estate should be factored into the price, as well as the inconvenience we'll incur during the construction and that the quiet nature of the house may have fundamentally changed. Yes, it might all work out, but equally the estate might have a permanent effect on the house's value as well as making it very difficult to sell/rent while the estate is being constructed, though this isn't something we believe we will need to do.

is it reasonable for us to adjust our offer or are we unnecessarily concerned? Would some of you just walk away at this stage?

[randlemarcus]

If you don't like the idea of living next door to an estate, never mind a multi year building site, run away.

Either plan for rented, really quick choice of new house, or not selling yours.

[davek_964]

It seems extremely unlikely that replacing open fields with a building site and eventually a large estate will not have a seriously negative effect on the value - especially if the social housing will be your practical neighbours. And it doesn't sound like the current sellers have taken that into account (are you sure it's not one of the reasons they've decided to move?).

I'd look elsewhere.

[98elise]

SuperVM said:

My wife and I are in the process of moving from inside the M25 to what we hope will be a quieter life further South. We accepted an offer on our house a month or so ago and found a house we would like to purchase about two weeks ago. The sellers accepted our offer and before we got to the stage of doing searches, we found that there is planning permission for 150+ houses in the field behind the house as well as another 150+ houses in the field behind that field. The issues from our point of view:

• The sellers must have been aware of this and even when discussing how nice it was that the house backed onto fields, didn't mention it. Given the state of housing in the South, I was always wary the field could be built on, but not quite so soon.
• We will have to put up with years of disruption.
• The affordable housing provided by the new estate will be at the end of the garden. I know there is an element of snobbery in there, but should we ever need to sell the house, I am sure it will be a factor.

We still like the house and plan on being in it for a long time, but feel perhaps the short to medium term risk associated with the new estate should be factored into the price, as well as the inconvenience we'll incur during the construction and that the quiet nature of the house may have fundamentally changed. Yes, it might all work out, but equally the estate might have a permanent effect on the house's value as well as making it very difficult to sell/rent while the estate is being constructed, though this isn't something we believe we will need to do.

is it reasonable for us to adjust our offer or are we unnecessarily concerned? Would some of you just walk away at this stage?

Of course its reasonable to adjust your offer. It has made the house less desirable.

I would initially withdraw the old offer based on the building site and let the agent start the negotiations to keep you as a buyer.

I feel sorry for the sellers though. They have lost value through no fault of their own, however they don't own the view. I can't blame them for trying to sell for maximum value, but unless your solicitor was crap it was always going to be found out.

[SuperVM]

randlemarcus said:

If you don't like the idea of living next door to an estate, never mind a multi year building site, run away.

Either plan for rented, really quick choice of new house, or not selling yours.

We asked our chain to get the ball rolling a week or so ago, as we'd like to ensure the kids move before the new school year starts. We have committed to moving into a rental should this purchase fall through. I have lived on a bunch of new build sites, but mostly as a child and briefly when visiting my mum while at uni. It never really bothered me, but now I'm a dad with two young kids and all the complication that goes with that, I think I might.

davek_964 said:

It seems extremely unlikely that replacing open fields with a building site and eventually a large estate will not have a seriously negative effect on the value - especially if the social housing will be your practical neighbours. And it doesn't sound like the current sellers have taken that into account (are you sure it's not one of the reasons they've decided to move?).

I'd look elsewhere.

One positive is that the garden is pretty long, so the social housing won't be on top of us, but I agree with your points. The sellers claim to be retiring and are moving into a flat, but I think it likely to be one of the points in making them do it now.

98elise said:

Of course its reasonable to adjust your offer. It has made the house less desirable.

I would initially withdraw the old offer based on the building site and let the agent start the negotiations to keep you as a buyer.

I feel sorry for the sellers though. They have lost value through no fault of their own, however they don't own the view. I can't blame them for trying to sell for maximum value, but unless your solicitor was crap it was always going to be found out.

I also feel sorry for the sellers, I would much rather not have the houses there and just pay what we agreed. As you say, this was always going to get picked up in searches and the house really should be priced accordingly.

Thanks all for the advice, it has been very helpful.

[LeoSayer]

You said you were looking for a quieter life but your new house will give you the opposite at least during construction and maybe after people have moved in.

Can you put a price on that?

[SuperVM]

LeoSayer said:

You said you were looking for a quieter life but your new house will give you the opposite at least during construction and maybe after people have moved in.

Can you put a price on that?

Indeed, we're trying to determine if we're still likely to be happy there. If we aren't, then as you suggest, no amount of discount is going to make up for it.

[Ozzie Osmond]

SuperVM said:

before we got to the stage of doing searches, we found that there is planning permission for 150+ houses in the field behind the house

• The sellers must have been aware of this and even when discussing how nice it was that the house backed onto fields, didn't mention it.

It's not the seller's responsibility to tell you, it's up to you to find out. That's why searches are done and planning consents are exactly the type of thing they reveal.

If you're not happy just renegotiate or walk away. But don't bugger the seller about - it's not their fault. If you want to make a lower offer do it clearly and do it soon.

[SuperVM]

Ozzie Osmond said:

SuperVM said:

before we got to the stage of doing searches, we found that there is planning permission for 150+ houses in the field behind the house

• The sellers must have been aware of this and even when discussing how nice it was that the house backed onto fields, didn't mention it.

It's not the seller's responsibility to tell you, it's up to you to find out. That's why searches are done and planning consents are exactly the type of thing they reveal.

If you're not happy just renegotiate or walk away. But don't bugger the seller about - it's not their fault. If you want to make a lower offer do it clearly and do it soon.

Actually, it is the seller's responsibility to tell us, though not necessarily at this stage. In the documentation to be completed by the seller, it specifically asks about any planning applications he/she is aware of. I'm well aware what the purpose of the searches is and am aware we would have found it then.

We have absolutely no intention of messing the seller around, but I'm sure you appreciate this is a big decision. We found out about the planning permission yesterday and also had the mortgage valuation yesterday, which may well give us a bit more information to use when re-negotiating.

[Ozzie Osmond]

So why do you think the searches are made?

Anyway, just deal with it effectively. One day you'll be selling a house and you won't want potential buyers to be ducking and diving after a price has been agreed.

[randlemarcus]

Ozzie Osmond said:

So why do you think the searches are made?

Anyway, just deal with it effectively. One day you'll be selling a house and you won't want potential buyers to be ducking and diving after a price has been agreed.

Equally, if he's a nice bloke, he probably won't neglect to tell buyers they have a new council estate going up just beyond the fruit cages

[SuperVM]

randlemarcus said:

Ozzie Osmond said:

So why do you think the searches are made?

Anyway, just deal with it effectively. One day you'll be selling a house and you won't want potential buyers to be ducking and diving after a price has been agreed.

Equally, if he's a nice bloke, he probably won't neglect to tell buyers they have a new council estate going up just beyond the fruit cages

That was my thought and it was also always going to come up in the searches, so why hide it until then? It doesn't really matter anyway, we've found about it early on and can now deal with it. Phase 1 is 150+ houses (with the affordable housing directly behind the back garden), which was approved a while ago, but phase 2 (another 150+ houses) has just been updated on the council website as approved. I'd spoken to the planning officers and was told the status would be updated online this week, so that was another thing I was waiting for before further negotiations.

[kiethton]

Run away....

There will be other, better, houses even if it takes another few weeks/months of searching, especially as you are happy to move into rented in in interim anyway.

My experiences with housing association tenants and the local council scum hasn't been great....

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

I will no longer consider anywhere near social housing, let alone as a direct neighbour

[worsy]

Yup, I'd start searching again. There are other houses out there.

[SuperVM]

kiethton said:

Run away....

There will be other, better, houses even if it takes another few weeks/months of searching, especially as you are happy to move into rented in in interim anyway.

My experiences with housing association tenants and the local council scum hasn't been great....

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

I will no longer consider anywhere near social housing, let alone as a direct neighbour

It's quite a sizeable garden and they are side-on to the back of the house, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't concerned.

worsy said:

Yup, I'd start searching again. There are other houses out there.

You're probably right, depressing though it may be.

[kiethton]

SuperVM said:

kiethton said:

Run away....

There will be other, better, houses even if it takes another few weeks/months of searching, especially as you are happy to move into rented in in interim anyway.

My experiences with housing association tenants and the local council scum hasn't been great....

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

I will no longer consider anywhere near social housing, let alone as a direct neighbour

It's quite a sizeable garden and they are side-on to the back of the house, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't concerned.

worsy said:

Yup, I'd start searching again. There are other houses out there.

You're probably right, depressing though it may be.

Thing is its more than just the social housing element.

New build estates are very densely and under-provisioned for parking. With maybe 1-2 spaces allowed per house you will have another car per house (kids, work van etc) spilling out of the new build estates and parking on your road making access/streetscape more difficult.

[SuperVM]

kiethton said:

Thing is its more than just the social housing element.

New build estates are very densely and under-provisioned for parking. With maybe 1-2 spaces allowed per house you will have another car per house (kids, work van etc) spilling out of the new build estates and parking on your road making access/streetscape more difficult.

I don't think the cars will end up on our road as such, it would be quite a walk around to the new estate from the front of the house. You're right though, there are other points to consider, such as the schools already being at capacity.

[LeoSayer]

SuperVM said:

That was my thought and it was also always going to come up in the searches, so why hide it until then?

Not every buyer does searches.

Even if they do, some buyers may be so far down the line that pulling out of the purchase isn't an option,

[SuperVM]

LeoSayer said:

SuperVM said:

That was my thought and it was also always going to come up in the searches, so why hide it until then?

Not every buyer does searches.

Even if they do, some buyers may be so far down the line that pulling out of the purchase isn't an option,

A fair point.

[Ozzie Osmond]

LeoSayer said:

Not every buyer does searches.

Like who? Do you do searches? What bank/building society is going to advance a mortgage with no searches checked?

Frankly IMO anyone who doesn't check simple, cheap searches ahead a property purchase is out of their mind.