Learn a trade WELL, work hard, do well for yourself??
Discussion
Hi guys – after a couple of straightforward answers on this really! I know I’ll probably get hammered on here for my view on this ("don't judge a book by its cover" etc) but there you go.
I’m 26 and have done (due to not knowing any better at the age of 16 onwards) the whole grammar school, A Levels, Uni (Economics) 9-5 job route. I earn ok-ish for my age circa £40k gross but the whole office job 9-5 isn’t for me. I’m an intelligent chap, very practical and hard-working when what I’m doing interests me.
I have 3 acquaintances of the same age who are tradesmen. 2 are self-employed commercial plumbers/Heating engineers and one is an electrician. Each are directors of their own Ltd company.
They have all done very well so far – one has just bought himself an F430, the other is buying, renovating and selling houses and spends most weekends in Southern Spain, and all just seem so happy, secure, doing well, enjoying life and enjoying their practical, diverse, skilled and specialized work.
I’m here trying to scrape together a deposit for house, chained to a desk every day, in an industry I have zero interest in anymore and am pretty fed up with it all. Have been for some time.
Let’s assume I have the ability to learn a trade well enough and have sufficient drive to make something of it.
So the questions are very simply –
1. What is the best and most REALISITC way to become qualified in a skilled trade for me, at my age now, to a sufficient level that would enable me to go it alone and hit the ground running.
2. How long would this likely take.
3. How much would this be likely to cost me.
4. What specific skilled trades do you with experience believe are the most rewarding and promising today.
Perhaps its impractical now and if that’s the opinion of those who have done it then fine. But there you go, what do those in know think
Many thanks
I’m 26 and have done (due to not knowing any better at the age of 16 onwards) the whole grammar school, A Levels, Uni (Economics) 9-5 job route. I earn ok-ish for my age circa £40k gross but the whole office job 9-5 isn’t for me. I’m an intelligent chap, very practical and hard-working when what I’m doing interests me.
I have 3 acquaintances of the same age who are tradesmen. 2 are self-employed commercial plumbers/Heating engineers and one is an electrician. Each are directors of their own Ltd company.
They have all done very well so far – one has just bought himself an F430, the other is buying, renovating and selling houses and spends most weekends in Southern Spain, and all just seem so happy, secure, doing well, enjoying life and enjoying their practical, diverse, skilled and specialized work.
I’m here trying to scrape together a deposit for house, chained to a desk every day, in an industry I have zero interest in anymore and am pretty fed up with it all. Have been for some time.
Let’s assume I have the ability to learn a trade well enough and have sufficient drive to make something of it.
So the questions are very simply –
1. What is the best and most REALISITC way to become qualified in a skilled trade for me, at my age now, to a sufficient level that would enable me to go it alone and hit the ground running.
2. How long would this likely take.
3. How much would this be likely to cost me.
4. What specific skilled trades do you with experience believe are the most rewarding and promising today.
Perhaps its impractical now and if that’s the opinion of those who have done it then fine. But there you go, what do those in know think
Many thanks
I can't really answer your questions but a few thoughts...
Two of the three you describe (what about the other?) are very much not the norm for a 26 year old tradesman... and perhaps would have succeeded to such a level regardless of the trade or industry they had entered.
Perhaps if they had followed your path they would be earning far more than you. Don't take that the wrong way, I don't know any of you and £40k isn't all bad at 26 so don't take it to heart. I'd wager it is more than 99% of 26 year old trades get on a PAYE salary.
You don't say what your current role is, but I'd bet you could move around within that industry and gain skills, experience and financial reward more quickly... or at least with less risk.
How long would it take to catch your mates? Well you are ten years behind them. So it will take 10 years to gain the same level of experience.
How much would it cost? Perhaps look at this another way... What if your salary was reset to minimum wage (or less on some sort of apprenticeship etc), and you only get to an average tradesman's income in 10 years time.
Take a look at whichever trades interest you the most regardless of financial reward, and then take a look at what the typical tradesman gets over various stages of his career... few drive Ferraris.
The Spark I know best earned a lot less than you until very recently (he's ten years your senior) having been at it since 16. He works a lot more than 9-5 too.
However... if you want to do it because you truly want to do the trade then go for it, you are still young enough.
Two of the three you describe (what about the other?) are very much not the norm for a 26 year old tradesman... and perhaps would have succeeded to such a level regardless of the trade or industry they had entered.
Perhaps if they had followed your path they would be earning far more than you. Don't take that the wrong way, I don't know any of you and £40k isn't all bad at 26 so don't take it to heart. I'd wager it is more than 99% of 26 year old trades get on a PAYE salary.
You don't say what your current role is, but I'd bet you could move around within that industry and gain skills, experience and financial reward more quickly... or at least with less risk.
How long would it take to catch your mates? Well you are ten years behind them. So it will take 10 years to gain the same level of experience.
How much would it cost? Perhaps look at this another way... What if your salary was reset to minimum wage (or less on some sort of apprenticeship etc), and you only get to an average tradesman's income in 10 years time.
Take a look at whichever trades interest you the most regardless of financial reward, and then take a look at what the typical tradesman gets over various stages of his career... few drive Ferraris.
The Spark I know best earned a lot less than you until very recently (he's ten years your senior) having been at it since 16. He works a lot more than 9-5 too.
However... if you want to do it because you truly want to do the trade then go for it, you are still young enough.
You need to be a decent businessman to earn £40k+ as a tradesman. That means knowing how to market your business and price jobs in such a way that you make a living and people use you.
I know a few tradesmen who ended up as PAYE because they can't run a business. They can plumb, plaster, spark, or whatever, but they can't run a business.
I run my own business, a manufacturing consultancy. I love it, but there are lean years and fat years depending on how much work I get. I count myself as better than average at selling my services. At the same time I have a mate who has run an IT consultancy for 20+ years, in the past he did really well, of latter years less so.
In summary, it's not about the mechanics of the job but running the shop that counts.
I know a few tradesmen who ended up as PAYE because they can't run a business. They can plumb, plaster, spark, or whatever, but they can't run a business.
I run my own business, a manufacturing consultancy. I love it, but there are lean years and fat years depending on how much work I get. I count myself as better than average at selling my services. At the same time I have a mate who has run an IT consultancy for 20+ years, in the past he did really well, of latter years less so.
In summary, it's not about the mechanics of the job but running the shop that counts.
okgo said:
Given all you're interested in are material possessions, why don't you put your economics degree to good use - £40k is chump change in the finance industry I would imagine, surely it won't be too hard to do better if all you want are motors and holidays?
This sounds very much like it. What else are your mates doing that enables them to afford their possessions (they could have had any number of life circumstances that enable them to afford their lifestyles that aren't job related)? If you lived with your parents, you could easily stick a Ferrari on their drive with your current salary. Have you looked around at what your skills can do elsewhere? Depending on your industry, a strategic job move could easily get you another couple of £10-20k p.a.I'm earning more than you and have considered giving it all up for a trade, but for every guy doing well, there must be at least 10 on a building site somewhere doing the same s
t day in, day out! Perhaps talk to your mates about them training you up?I'm a carpenter aged 36. Most of my friends are tradesman and are either running their own businesses or working as one man bands. I am PAYE but in quite a fortunate role salary wise. I can tell you for sure that the only people I know earning more than 40k are working incredibly hard to get it. 9-5 does not come into it for those people, that may be when their actual work stops but then there's hours of quoting and paperwork. If your not willing to give up all your free time then the big money probably won't be obtainable. Add the fact that there's probably a short window of opportunity of earning before your body starts packing up and the 10 years behind you are really is emphasised.
Having said that, you could learn a trade quickly. A friend of mine takes on jobs and then goes and watches tutorials on YouTube. You could teach yourself to be a plumber in a few weeks, the rest is just confidence. I'm not saying that's a good way to start, but thousands do.
One more point I can't really stress enough. Since I was an apprentice I've listened to tradesman bragging about how much they earned last week/month/year. And that's great, but it has to be sustainable and it has to keep coming. Anyone can jump on a building site and earn 1k a week but next month they will call you in on a Friday and tell you there's no work on Monday. Unless you have a lot of contacts and are very resourceful, you can easily end up waiting a month for another start.
In your position if I was really keen to start a trade I would start a one man plumbing business and as things grow push your way into gas engineering as the work builds up. Expect to be chucking in the hours messing with people's blocked toilets. You may well earn 40k by the time your my age, either way you'll most likely be sick of it.
Having said that, you could learn a trade quickly. A friend of mine takes on jobs and then goes and watches tutorials on YouTube. You could teach yourself to be a plumber in a few weeks, the rest is just confidence. I'm not saying that's a good way to start, but thousands do.
One more point I can't really stress enough. Since I was an apprentice I've listened to tradesman bragging about how much they earned last week/month/year. And that's great, but it has to be sustainable and it has to keep coming. Anyone can jump on a building site and earn 1k a week but next month they will call you in on a Friday and tell you there's no work on Monday. Unless you have a lot of contacts and are very resourceful, you can easily end up waiting a month for another start.
In your position if I was really keen to start a trade I would start a one man plumbing business and as things grow push your way into gas engineering as the work builds up. Expect to be chucking in the hours messing with people's blocked toilets. You may well earn 40k by the time your my age, either way you'll most likely be sick of it.
I'm a tradesman. My rates are £250/day. London. Handyman, however, I've been doing this for 11 years and the difference in skill set when I started to what I can do now took all those years to gain. I only went self employed last year and have been slammed since.
My rates are actually on the low'ish side for a skilled person. I'm not talking about a mic key mouse cash in hand type. I'm constantly fixing their work.
West London can charge £280-£300 EX VAT! I know as the last company I worked for 5 years ago was charging that.
My point is, is that these tradesmen brag about what they earn but that isn't what they pocket at all.
do a "toilet paper" finance workout.
This is an example which is loosely based on what a tradesman would do/earn.
Salary £38000. 3166 pm (put £633 away for tax)
After tax. £2533
Van £21000. New vivaro sport. This is including vat and finance.
£437 pcm (£5250pm) remember. Man maths. Your business so a basic van is no good.
Signage £1000. £250/yr for 4 years. Sell the van then and repeat.
Clothing ave £300 per 18 months. £200/yr
Fuel £200pcm
Servicing £400/yr incl parts, tyres.
Van insurance £1200/yr
Public liability £100/yr
Tools £300/yr excl initial purchase.
Expenses and now £10100 per year.
That's £841 per month
261 working days in this year
Minus 30 for holiday and a few sick days.
Call it 230 working days. Minus an extra 10 for quiet days
220 x £250
£55000 income per year.
Minus £10100 expenses.
£44900 income
Minus £38000 salary.
Leaves £6900 as profit. That's only £575 per month business profit. There are other factors that can wipe that out easily.
You can work weekends and evenings to bump that up more but that's usually spent invoicing, chasing payments, quotes etc. Add that to an 8-6pm job and you get the jist?
I've cut my hours and now finish at 5 but then I get home and it's work time in the office.
Remember, even if you get a qualification, you will need a few years experience to earn decent money. Studying books is one thing but learning a craft is another.
Self employment is also a bugger. I got knocked off my bike last year (non fault) and that was me off for 2 months. No salary but bills kept coming. So for the first year you REALLY need to draw a basic salary and keep money in the business account. I did and I'm thankful of it. Money used to burn holes in my pocket but not anymore.
Hope this helps a bit
My rates are actually on the low'ish side for a skilled person. I'm not talking about a mic key mouse cash in hand type. I'm constantly fixing their work.
West London can charge £280-£300 EX VAT! I know as the last company I worked for 5 years ago was charging that.
My point is, is that these tradesmen brag about what they earn but that isn't what they pocket at all.
do a "toilet paper" finance workout.
This is an example which is loosely based on what a tradesman would do/earn.
Salary £38000. 3166 pm (put £633 away for tax)
After tax. £2533
Van £21000. New vivaro sport. This is including vat and finance.
£437 pcm (£5250pm) remember. Man maths. Your business so a basic van is no good.
Signage £1000. £250/yr for 4 years. Sell the van then and repeat.
Clothing ave £300 per 18 months. £200/yr
Fuel £200pcm
Servicing £400/yr incl parts, tyres.
Van insurance £1200/yr
Public liability £100/yr
Tools £300/yr excl initial purchase.
Expenses and now £10100 per year.
That's £841 per month
261 working days in this year
Minus 30 for holiday and a few sick days.
Call it 230 working days. Minus an extra 10 for quiet days
220 x £250
£55000 income per year.
Minus £10100 expenses.
£44900 income
Minus £38000 salary.
Leaves £6900 as profit. That's only £575 per month business profit. There are other factors that can wipe that out easily.
You can work weekends and evenings to bump that up more but that's usually spent invoicing, chasing payments, quotes etc. Add that to an 8-6pm job and you get the jist?
I've cut my hours and now finish at 5 but then I get home and it's work time in the office.
Remember, even if you get a qualification, you will need a few years experience to earn decent money. Studying books is one thing but learning a craft is another.
Self employment is also a bugger. I got knocked off my bike last year (non fault) and that was me off for 2 months. No salary but bills kept coming. So for the first year you REALLY need to draw a basic salary and keep money in the business account. I did and I'm thankful of it. Money used to burn holes in my pocket but not anymore.
Hope this helps a bit
As per the above your two mates are not the norm.
Go into any 'local' pub any evening of the week from about 5 / 6 pm.
You'll find a bunch of young blokes all covered in plaster or saw dust or other building materials.
Scraped together enough cash for a night out as they've spent the last week living in a bedsit in London as they've had to travel for work.
Plenty in our local, plenty of friends I know do this.
I know one bloke locally who works in a trade, and owns a GT3 and a couple of VW vans.
He has a reputation and it's not for his trade.
Go into any 'local' pub any evening of the week from about 5 / 6 pm.
You'll find a bunch of young blokes all covered in plaster or saw dust or other building materials.
Scraped together enough cash for a night out as they've spent the last week living in a bedsit in London as they've had to travel for work.
Plenty in our local, plenty of friends I know do this.
I know one bloke locally who works in a trade, and owns a GT3 and a couple of VW vans.
He has a reputation and it's not for his trade.
Plastering could be a good place to start.
A guy I know has just done a 6 week plastering course and is now charging a day rate of £450. He has worked every day since finishing the course 3 months ago.
Experienced plasterers in my area are now getting towards £600 per day.
Some plumbers are even more.
A guy I know has just done a 6 week plastering course and is now charging a day rate of £450. He has worked every day since finishing the course 3 months ago.
Experienced plasterers in my area are now getting towards £600 per day.
Some plumbers are even more.
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