Right lads, We've got a problem, its called Lotus.
Discussion
PetrolTed said:
I think most TVR owners are in it for outright power, rather than speed through "lightness".
I agree. I always thought TVR ownership was about bragging rights when discussing BHP down the pub.
Hence TVR's hugely over-inflated fugures. They obviously marketed with this key ownerhisp requirement in mind
angusfaldo said:
I think most TVR owners are in it for outright power, rather than speed through "lightness".
I agree. I always thought TVR ownership was about bragging rights when discussing BHP down the pub.
Hence TVR's hugely over-inflated fugures. They obviously marketed with this key ownerhisp requirement in mind
Only on Cerb 4.5 though
We did a rolling road session last year for the Central Scotland TVRCC folks, and most of the cars were pretty close on the money. IIRC the Cerb 4.2s were 340-365, a T350 at 380ish, Griffs in the low 300s, Chimaera 400s at about 200. Only the Cerb 4.5s seems to be way off.
But back to the post, yup 250BHP in what I guess must be about 850Kg sounds OK, but I'd rather have 380BHP in 1250KG...about same power-to-weight but lots more grunt. Bet it sounds nicer too than a supercharged four.
Actually, I lie, I'd rather have 500BHP in 900Kg but that's another story
WB
Don said:
[nasal, whining voice]My name's Nigel, and I drive a Vauxhall[/nasal, whining voice]
Pah! Its a fine machine. They are chuffing fast when well driven on track days - really, really, chuffing "I can't keep up in a Caterham" fast.
Yes, but if we were just interested in driving fast, we wouldn't own TVR's.
A standard Elise 111S will piss all over most TVR's on any sort of demanding, twisty road...you don't need to spend £40-odd-K on a supercharged Exige.
Lets be honest, at least part of it is about image and bragging rights, and the Vauxhall badge just doesn't work, even if it is fixed to the front of a turbo'd Lotus.
Martin_S said:People always say this, but the reality is that a well driven Elise 180 was having real problems keeping up with a gaggle of TVRs over in Northern Ireland last year at the last Celtic bash. (Even old Wedges were doing better)
A standard Elise 111S will piss all over most TVR's on any sort of demanding, twisty road...you don't need to spend £40-odd-K on a supercharged Exige.
This was on typical country roads - why? Cos whenever there was anything to overtake, it just didn't have enough grunt to do so as safely.
Seriously, it was having a hard time keeping up with some of our more "sedate" elder drivers in Wedges & S's.
It had no chance at all with the Chims, Griffs, Tuscans & Tamoras.
Yes it could probably carry a few more MPH through the corners, but it couldn't make the most of the real world opportunities (and it wasn't like the roads where that busy)
Don't get me wrong - I think that they are great cars, but they just need more power & a boot (not a briefcase)
CraigAlsop said:
A standard Elise 111S will piss all over most TVR's on any sort of demanding, twisty road...you don't need to spend £40-odd-K on a supercharged Exige.
People always say this, but the reality is that a well driven Elise 180 was having real problems keeping up with a gaggle of TVRs over in Northern Ireland last year at the last Celtic bash. (Even old Wedges were doing better)
This was on typical country roads - why? Cos whenever there was anything to overtake, it just didn't have enough grunt to do so as safely.
Seriously, it was having a hard time keeping up with some of our more "sedate" elder drivers in Wedges & S's.
It had no chance at all with the Chims, Griffs, Tuscans & Tamoras.
Yes it could probably carry a few more MPH through the corners, but it couldn't make the most of the real world opportunities (and it wasn't like the roads where that busy)
Don't get me wrong - I think that they are great cars, but they just need more power & a boot (not a briefcase)
I can only say that having gone directly from an S1 Elise to a Griffith 500, I can't match the sort of cross-country times I used to be able to set in the Elise. The Griffith is much quicker in a straight line, but on the twisty roads that I consider to be fun and challenging, the cornering balance of the Griffith is so inferior that the extra power counts for nothing.
In certain circumstances (fast, sweeping roads with - as you say - ample overtaking opportunities), then the Griffith might be able to open up a gap by overtaking in marginal situations that an Elise couldn't match. But then, I don't tend to overtake in marginal situations...
Also, maybe I'm just being cautious, but I always 'feed' in the power when I overtake from low speed in the Griffith...hit a greasy patch and the thought of going sideways half way through an overtaking manoeuvre with a limited gap and oncoming traffic doesn't appeal. With the Elise, I knew that 'sideways' always meant just a twitch of the steering to correct, not a potential spin, so I was happier using all of the available performance.
An Elise 180 is a pretty highly-strung animal, incedentally, and rather unsuitable for road use, IMHO. It would be quick on a circuit, but in any sort of road driving, it would need pretty exeptional circumstances to make it quicker than a standard 120bhp base model Elise, let alone a 111S - you simply wouldn't be able to keep it 'on the boil' for enough of the time.
If Lotus produce an Elise/Exige that can match the TVR's acceleration, then the TIV would have no ace left to play and would be left floundering under all circumstances.
TVR's have many other advantages over Lotus: looks, noise, interior comfort, exclusivity, practicality, etc, etc, but I honestly don't think they can compete as a point-to-point tool.
Having said all which, I don't really think that a supercharged Exige is a threat to TVR in sales terms. The cars are so different in ethos that I don't imagine there is much overlap in the user groups.
Martin_S said:
I can only say that having gone directly from an S1 Elise to a Griffith 500, I can't match the sort of cross-country times I used to be able to set in the Elise. The Griffith is much quicker in a straight line, but on the twisty roads that I consider to be fun and challenging, the cornering balance of the Griffith is so inferior that the extra power counts for nothing.
In certain circumstances (fast, sweeping roads with - as you say - ample overtaking opportunities), then the Griffith might be able to open up a gap by overtaking in marginal situations that an Elise couldn't match. But then, I don't tend to overtake in marginal situations...
Also, maybe I'm just being cautious, but I always 'feed' in the power when I overtake from low speed in the Griffith...hit a greasy patch and the thought of going sideways half way through an overtaking manoeuvre with a limited gap and oncoming traffic doesn't appeal. With the Elise, I knew that 'sideways' always meant just a twitch of the steering to correct, not a potential spin, so I was happier using all of the available performance.
An Elise 180 is a pretty highly-strung animal, incedentally, and rather unsuitable for road use, IMHO. It would be quick on a circuit, but in any sort of road driving, it would need pretty exeptional circumstances to make it quicker than a standard 120bhp base model Elise, let alone a 111S - you simply wouldn't be able to keep it 'on the boil' for enough of the time.
If Lotus produce an Elise/Exige that can match the TVR's acceleration, then the TIV would have no ace left to play and would be left floundering under all circumstances.
TVR's have many other advantages over Lotus: looks, noise, interior comfort, exclusivity, practicality, etc, etc, but I honestly don't think they can compete as a point-to-point tool.
Most of this is absolutely true for the older generation of TVRs - the point and squirt, straight line machines with too much low down torque for safety on wet corners. However, TVR have moved on dynamically since the Griffith, and I would suggest you get a ride in a T350 or Tamora - they don't have the ultimate handling expertise of an Elise, but with 90% of it, a tractable engine matched to a comfortable, carpeted interior, they more than match the Elise as a complete sports car.
In the end, the Elise is first and foremost a track day car, not a sports car designed for (almost) everyday use.
In real world UK driving, not track days, a modern day TVR will always win.
Martin_S said:
Lets be honest, at least part of it is about image and bragging rights, and the Vauxhall badge just doesn't work, even if it is fixed to the front of a turbo'd Lotus.
I'll be pleased with my crap Vauxhall badge then and go quicker in a straight line than any stock RV8 TVR and a shedload quicker in the twisties...
Let me see now a great chassis with 118bhp or 250bhp
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