Panic! Caught doing 36 in a 30. Mrs destroyed the paperwork
Discussion
Hi
Have been a bit of a muppet.
Got caught doing 36 in a 30. Clean license otherwise until then.
With massive stress at work, bereavement, etc etc, I completely forgot about it.
I am now going to have to go to court to sort it out or they will prosecute me for not providing information - a more serious problem.
The problem is that Mrs TS has inadvertently destroyed ALL the paperwork. She burned a whole load of personal bank papers ( she likes do that becasue she had her identity taken and is ultra cautious.. ).
Anyway, all I know is that the court hearing is sometime toward the end of the month. Other than that I know nothing !
Where can I find out when the hearing is taking place? I figure I can then rock up at the magistrates court and plead forgiveness...
Is there an online register of cases to be heard?
How screwed am I?
Have been a bit of a muppet.
Got caught doing 36 in a 30. Clean license otherwise until then.
With massive stress at work, bereavement, etc etc, I completely forgot about it.
I am now going to have to go to court to sort it out or they will prosecute me for not providing information - a more serious problem.
The problem is that Mrs TS has inadvertently destroyed ALL the paperwork. She burned a whole load of personal bank papers ( she likes do that becasue she had her identity taken and is ultra cautious.. ).
Anyway, all I know is that the court hearing is sometime toward the end of the month. Other than that I know nothing !
Where can I find out when the hearing is taking place? I figure I can then rock up at the magistrates court and plead forgiveness...
Is there an online register of cases to be heard?
How screwed am I?
Contact by telephone a magistrates' court in the county in which you believe the case is to be heard. Even if it's the wrong court then the case will be on the computer system.
You need to speak to 'pre-court.' Speak to someone in the first instance. They will very likely tell you to put your request for the paperwork in writing - do that by email.
It sounds like the charge/s will be speeding or failing to give information to identify the driver, or both of the aforementioned.
Keep calm.
I'm being done for failure to provide.
I didn't even know I had been caught... can't find the NIP or anything anywhere...
I knew one day my Mrs paranoia over identity security and her desire to destroy anything and everything might cause something important to get destroyed too...
So it seems the best hope is to contact the court and get copies of the intended case, turn up on the day and plead for mercy.
Bugger.
I didn't even know I had been caught... can't find the NIP or anything anywhere...
I knew one day my Mrs paranoia over identity security and her desire to destroy anything and everything might cause something important to get destroyed too...
So it seems the best hope is to contact the court and get copies of the intended case, turn up on the day and plead for mercy.
Bugger.
agtlaw said:
Get the case papers.
To expand a little...If you have been charged solely with failing to supply information (a "Section 172" offence) there is no possibility of being able to plead guilty to the speeding offence - that no would longer exist.
If however you've been charged with both offences at the same time (a logical impossibility, but that's another story) there's a possibility that the Crown Prosecution Service can be persuaded to offer no evidence in the Section 172 case for a guilty plea in the speeding case.
You'll need to talk to the CPS beforehand though, otherwise they will present their evidence for the Section 172 and the speeding and then you'll end up with both sets of points. The magistrate will decide on the evidence in front of them.
davepoth said:
agtlaw said:
Get the case papers.
To expand a little...If you have been charged solely with failing to supply information (a "Section 172" offence) there is no possibility of being able to plead guilty to the speeding offence - that no would longer exist.
If however you've been charged with both offences at the same time (a logical impossibility, but that's another story) there's a possibility that the Crown Prosecution Service can be persuaded to offer no evidence in the Section 172 case for a guilty plea in the speeding case.
You'll need to talk to the CPS beforehand though, otherwise they will present their evidence for the Section 172 and the speeding and then you'll end up with both sets of points. The magistrate will decide on the evidence in front of them.
Speeding is one offence, failing to properly respond to the s172 request is another and a seperate offence, they occur at different times and are different offences. There is nothing impossible about charging and convicting both offences. The charges are not mutually exclusive, the offences are not even in the same Act.
Perhaps you should inform the courts in which I have stood and persuade them of the impossibility of which you write. You may be able to remove some of the 9 points, 3 for speeding, 6 for s172, the courts have awarded.
Some prosecutors are taking a path of least resistance in making a bargain before court when they accept an admission of driving and drop the s172 charge but they don't need to do that. Getting a simple quick win is maybe the only reason they would accept such an admission. If someone has spent many months not complying with an s172 request then at court says "it was me driving all along", they are admitting that offence. Bargaining in away the s172 offence for an admission to driving after a defendant knew all along that they were the driver makes no sense.
tapereel said:
Do you mean in this case or generally?
If dealt with properly then penalty points won't be aggregated. It can happen - although has never happened in a case in which I've been involved. The offences are not alternatives. Agree with tapereel. Again, has never happened in a case of mine but the prosecuting authority can sometimes prove the accused was driving / speeding and also failed to comply with s. 172 requirements.
Dave, I dealt with an interesting case quite recently. Charged with s.172 only. NG plea. Adjourned for trial. CPS took over the prosecution. I spoke to CPS lawyer. Speeding charge laid out of time - guilty plea. 172 offence not proceeded with.
agtlaw said:
tapereel said:
Do you mean in this case or generally?
If dealt with properly then penalty points won't be aggregated. It can happen - although has never happened in a case in which I've been involved. The offences are not alternatives. Agree with tapereel. Again, has never happened in a case of mine but the prosecuting authority can sometimes prove the accused was driving / speeding and also failed to comply with s. 172 requirements.
Dave, I dealt with an interesting case quite recently. Charged with s.172 only. NG plea. Adjourned for trial. CPS took over the prosecution. I spoke to CPS lawyer. Speeding charge laid out of time - guilty plea. 172 offence not proceeded with.
agtlaw said:
tapereel said:
Why? Did the prosecutor fall for the trap or did your client have evidence of compliance with the s172?
Short version. She completed and returned the form sent to her place of work. Police didn't receive a subsequent reply from her home address. Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff