Why the Porsche values madness is a good thing
Discussion
I visited a indi Porsche specialist today and it was a very pleasant experience.
Firstly listening to a real expert who was passionate about what he did. He showed me round 4 engine rebuilds he is currently doing, then spoke with passion about a Tom Wilkenshaw 3 Series he has rebuilt while at the same time gazing across his workshop full with some very nice metal. His own car? A lovely, but slightly time worn Carrera RS in Kermit Green. Yum.
So the upshot of this thread. This expert is bringing many old cars back to life. He has a waiting list that is getting longer by the day. He is finding getting some parts very tough to get (pistons for example) and people are paying big bucks for the privilege of these restorations.
This can only be in part due to what he called the "madness" of the market. People won't lose money by throwing money at the correct car anymore so perhaps even petrolheads are paying for work to be done on their "investments". The expert found the greed all very sad but it cheers me up in a way because all these great cars are being preserved to a very high standard like never before. He even had a rather sorry looking 996 in that had been bought for peanuts and was being serviced to a degree (it will never be a very good example but it will bring its owner lots of fun if he spends a few grand).
Anyway - I had 5 minutes to kill so thanks for reading.
Firstly listening to a real expert who was passionate about what he did. He showed me round 4 engine rebuilds he is currently doing, then spoke with passion about a Tom Wilkenshaw 3 Series he has rebuilt while at the same time gazing across his workshop full with some very nice metal. His own car? A lovely, but slightly time worn Carrera RS in Kermit Green. Yum.
So the upshot of this thread. This expert is bringing many old cars back to life. He has a waiting list that is getting longer by the day. He is finding getting some parts very tough to get (pistons for example) and people are paying big bucks for the privilege of these restorations.
This can only be in part due to what he called the "madness" of the market. People won't lose money by throwing money at the correct car anymore so perhaps even petrolheads are paying for work to be done on their "investments". The expert found the greed all very sad but it cheers me up in a way because all these great cars are being preserved to a very high standard like never before. He even had a rather sorry looking 996 in that had been bought for peanuts and was being serviced to a degree (it will never be a very good example but it will bring its owner lots of fun if he spends a few grand).
Anyway - I had 5 minutes to kill so thanks for reading.
I sort of agree with you and I am glad that a lot of old pork is being kept 'alive' but I can't help but think on the whole, the crazy price increases have forced a lot of people out of the market, which is a sad state of affairs.
Its also forced a lot of people to have to keep their current cars and not change or upgrade to something else as they have been priced out.
Long time observers of the market would also be a little annoyed to see tatty examples that they refused to pay £20k for a few years ago now worth £50k........and nothing has been spent on them in terms of maintenance and upgrades etc
In summary, good for those who got in, bad for those who want in
Its also forced a lot of people to have to keep their current cars and not change or upgrade to something else as they have been priced out.
Long time observers of the market would also be a little annoyed to see tatty examples that they refused to pay £20k for a few years ago now worth £50k........and nothing has been spent on them in terms of maintenance and upgrades etc
In summary, good for those who got in, bad for those who want in
The 'beards' will never be happy though.....even though rising values have resulted in viable and better quality restorations and more cars kept on the roads if merely for eye candy to many, cue someone complaining they are now well beyond the reach of impercunious true 'enthusiasts'......
:
:The higher prices do mean that now the cars will enjoy a better class of owner as well. We saw a lot of people over the years bemoaning how cheap Porsche has fallen into the hands of those who couldn't afford the upkeep, let alone a restoration. Those days are over. I remember Total911 and a couple of other magazine making the point regularly about cheap Porsches and their owners.
Sine Metu said:
The higher prices do mean that now the cars will enjoy a better class of owner as well. We saw a lot of people over the years bemoaning how cheap Porsche has fallen into the hands of those who couldn't afford the upkeep, let alone a restoration. Those days are over. I remember Total911 and a couple of other magazine making the point regularly about cheap Porsches and their owners.
Are you for f£$cking serious?Shall i stick my p60 on here or state my parents education so you can judge whether i should be the owner of bit of metal?
Get over yourself, and the 'brand'.
gibbon said:
Sine Metu said:
The higher prices do mean that now the cars will enjoy a better class of owner as well. We saw a lot of people over the years bemoaning how cheap Porsche has fallen into the hands of those who couldn't afford the upkeep, let alone a restoration. Those days are over. I remember Total911 and a couple of other magazine making the point regularly about cheap Porsches and their owners.
Are you for f£$cking serious?Shall i stick my p60 on here or state my parents education so you can judge whether i should be the owner of bit of metal?
Get over yourself, and the 'brand'.
If that's what he actually meant, then I agree to a certain degree. It has nothing to do with brand or class, just money and how much of it can be put into something that was only depreciating. These days many owners see up keep as an investment, or certainly something they won't loose.
Well I am certainly in the camp of its a load of nonsense.
Times when a 3.2 carrera cost you 10-15 and a 993 about 20ish was perfect. Bought used and maintained by many an enthusiastic owner, now with the prices as they are the ownership has moved up more to people looking to invest, consider washing the car getting their hands dirty, and generally for hay days and holidays. The type of people that turned their nose up at the trash can sounding sports cars a few years back when they were not so cool.
This should be kept for Ferrari's and such like, porsche are supposed to be the achievable sports car, I guess they still are with the 996 and early boosters and I see enthusiasts move to them with lots of Web guides to maintenence etc so I guess it's fine.
Times when a 3.2 carrera cost you 10-15 and a 993 about 20ish was perfect. Bought used and maintained by many an enthusiastic owner, now with the prices as they are the ownership has moved up more to people looking to invest, consider washing the car getting their hands dirty, and generally for hay days and holidays. The type of people that turned their nose up at the trash can sounding sports cars a few years back when they were not so cool.
This should be kept for Ferrari's and such like, porsche are supposed to be the achievable sports car, I guess they still are with the 996 and early boosters and I see enthusiasts move to them with lots of Web guides to maintenence etc so I guess it's fine.
There are still cheap Porsches so that hasn't changed a great deal (although it may do in time, when even 911s get to the hybrid and autonomous stages). It's just that the older stuff has become much more expensive - i.e. the stuff which used to be not-very-old and occupy the same age/price space as 986 and 996 cars currently do.
Until a few years ago the consensus in the classic car magazines etc was that a £10k 911 was a risk; it still is. 10 years ago that £10k 911 was an IB car whereas now it's a 996. Given how many more cars Porsche has sold since the late 90s, the actual volume of 911s for sale in the £10-15k range probably hasn't changed that much in the past 15 years!
Until a few years ago the consensus in the classic car magazines etc was that a £10k 911 was a risk; it still is. 10 years ago that £10k 911 was an IB car whereas now it's a 996. Given how many more cars Porsche has sold since the late 90s, the actual volume of 911s for sale in the £10-15k range probably hasn't changed that much in the past 15 years!
A good buy a while back 996 turbo.
Around thirty's then, now up to the forty's.Maybe a few still lower?
Look at boxsters,around 5k cheap open top fun.
Another one, the Cayenne the milk cow
that saved the company.
Buy the best you can and hold some back for a big bill or two.
Then go,enjoy the car.
'EVERY MILE IS A SMILE'
Around thirty's then, now up to the forty's.Maybe a few still lower?
Look at boxsters,around 5k cheap open top fun.
Another one, the Cayenne the milk cow
that saved the company.
Buy the best you can and hold some back for a big bill or two.
Then go,enjoy the car.
'EVERY MILE IS A SMILE'
Edited by SEE YA on Saturday 4th June 12:33
v8ksn said:
Right ........Things to do :
1. Resign and become a racing driver (or an astronaut - or both ? Umm.....)
2. Get a couple of mistresses - maybe see if I could handle a whole harem .... ???
3 Sell the house and drive around the world.
4. Eat loads more crap / stop exercising as its a real pain .
5. Drink loads more - cuddle complete strangers !
6. Stop wasting time trying to make complete strangers smile in PH .
7. Cancel 50th birthday party - I will either be dead or too broke to pay for it .
Or maybe just carry on as I was doing - I think I may get into a little bother : especially with the harem thing
I think there was always porsche madness, people appreciated the cars (911 mainly). I believe recently, last few years, there is not a good alternative around (especially new sports cars), so people started to spend their money on older ones instead. Two of my colleagues did this with 993 and 964, If you probably have some money to burn on a second car, have some free-time to maintain and etc. then they are going for a porsche.
Yes I agree when we ( a group of 8-10 guys ) all had 64 RS they only cost 22k and yes we were on track a lot and off to the Ring a few times a year ...maybe we could have looked after them a little better instead of ragging them ....... so that in 10 years time they could be a better garage Queen ( they are probably sold now as a one lady owner .... matching numbers collectables) .
But I am happy we had fun and met new long term friends ..... true car nuts ....
As I have said before I know of pristine RS models where the owner has not even seen the car let alone take it for a drive ...... does that other me ,no that is life , they collect them we like to drive them and maybe crash ..but both still like the cars indifferent ways
But I am happy we had fun and met new long term friends ..... true car nuts ....
As I have said before I know of pristine RS models where the owner has not even seen the car let alone take it for a drive ...... does that other me ,no that is life , they collect them we like to drive them and maybe crash ..but both still like the cars indifferent ways
Robbo66 said:
I use mine, just had epic trip to Evo triangle with other aircooled guys...
2 days, 700 miles. Listen to Mr Lama.
That is gorgeous. Never driven one or even been in one but peered through the glass plenty of times. Glad you made great memories. 2 days, 700 miles. Listen to Mr Lama.
Thanks for all the replies. Some good points made.
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