991 Turbo S v 997.2 Turbo S
Discussion
So its my annual, mot, service, fettle and detail month and usual trade it now opportunity at the stealers we'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
So should I go for it? Or will another proper run in the 997 soon sort that problem?
(Un)fortunately for me I had the chance of ragging a new 991 Turbo S. Externally, the revised 991 from the launch 991 looks much better at rear, for me losing most of the fuglyness the original had. Internally, though it looks modern, high quality and is slightly more spacious, I still can't get over the starship enterprise central console with blanked out buttons. Even with the carbon fibre option on, they is a plastic rim round the auto gear lever - not so on the 997.2.
Anyway, onto the performance and handling. As expected it's a ballistic missile, launch control is just f
king ridiculous! However having just driven in spirited way over the fosse to make the appt on time, I was surprised how little the difference was - apparently there is 0.2sec gap between 991 v 997.2 according car and driver - maybe - and certainly wasn't a omg this is much faster. I know the PDK is probably better in the 991, with more intelligence applied on when to change and a smoother change when compared. I tend to use it on paddle and at least sport mode so again the difference was small for me.
On the feedback and feel - seemed minimal difference with maybe a little better feel on 997, but a commendable Porsche effort on EPS. Most shopping trolleys l've driven have been dire with EPS, BMWs also suffer, to lesser extant, a similar fate. I'd have no probs with this Porsche system - plenty of the right kind of feedback.
I think the omg moment for me was the ride on 20 inch wheels over a rough road. Unbelievable. It in a different league to any other marque I've driven with Adaptive suspension - surprisely similar to the pammy that I had as a courtesy car. Gone was the jarring over rough surfaces and the overly firm ride in non-sport mode.
I'm not quite sure what the extra active aero gives, apart from a lot of wind noise above about 150. I thought I'd broken it when I first tried to vmax it - it's really loud!
Going back to 997.2 made me quickly realise the size differences inside and out, and how more modern the 991 looks with its revised rear led lights, wider stance, bigger wheels and longer wheelbase. Maybe the revised 991 is a better looker then?
Soo for 991 Turbo S ... Much better ride, more modern ... But ... little difference in performance and handling - is it worth the trade?? Will some of those subtle differences grow on me?
So should I go for it? Or will another proper run in the 997 soon sort that problem?
(Un)fortunately for me I had the chance of ragging a new 991 Turbo S. Externally, the revised 991 from the launch 991 looks much better at rear, for me losing most of the fuglyness the original had. Internally, though it looks modern, high quality and is slightly more spacious, I still can't get over the starship enterprise central console with blanked out buttons. Even with the carbon fibre option on, they is a plastic rim round the auto gear lever - not so on the 997.2.
Anyway, onto the performance and handling. As expected it's a ballistic missile, launch control is just f
king ridiculous! However having just driven in spirited way over the fosse to make the appt on time, I was surprised how little the difference was - apparently there is 0.2sec gap between 991 v 997.2 according car and driver - maybe - and certainly wasn't a omg this is much faster. I know the PDK is probably better in the 991, with more intelligence applied on when to change and a smoother change when compared. I tend to use it on paddle and at least sport mode so again the difference was small for me.On the feedback and feel - seemed minimal difference with maybe a little better feel on 997, but a commendable Porsche effort on EPS. Most shopping trolleys l've driven have been dire with EPS, BMWs also suffer, to lesser extant, a similar fate. I'd have no probs with this Porsche system - plenty of the right kind of feedback.
I think the omg moment for me was the ride on 20 inch wheels over a rough road. Unbelievable. It in a different league to any other marque I've driven with Adaptive suspension - surprisely similar to the pammy that I had as a courtesy car. Gone was the jarring over rough surfaces and the overly firm ride in non-sport mode.
I'm not quite sure what the extra active aero gives, apart from a lot of wind noise above about 150. I thought I'd broken it when I first tried to vmax it - it's really loud!
Going back to 997.2 made me quickly realise the size differences inside and out, and how more modern the 991 looks with its revised rear led lights, wider stance, bigger wheels and longer wheelbase. Maybe the revised 991 is a better looker then?
Soo for 991 Turbo S ... Much better ride, more modern ... But ... little difference in performance and handling - is it worth the trade?? Will some of those subtle differences grow on me?
Excellent write up thank you, I own a 2010 997 S2 Turbo S (26000 miles) and driven the new 991 I could not tell a performance difference , ride was better, cosmetics inside better and maybe better made, the steering better in the 997, but as a second car used once a week if lucky I won't be using up £75k to update NOT upgrade 
I still feel the 97 gen 2 is the last of the era in Porsches 911's. I actually adore the 997 shape it's not aging and I feel the 991 will faster.
I still feel the 97 gen 2 is the last of the era in Porsches 911's. I actually adore the 997 shape it's not aging and I feel the 991 will faster. Edited by mnk303 on Sunday 5th June 21:21
mnk303 said:
Excellent write up thank you, I own a 2010 997 S2 Turbo S (26000 miles) and driven the new 991 I could not tell a performance difference , ride was better, cosmetics inside better and maybe better made, the steering better in the 997, but as a second car used once a week if lucky I won't be using up £75k to update NOT upgrade I still feel the 97 gen 2 is the last of the era in Porsches 911's. I actually adore the 997 shape it's not aging and I feel the 997 will faster.
Also not losing money at the mo, since there are only 4 for sale in the opc network, which is why the stealer is hassling me. I still feel the 97 gen 2 is the last of the era in Porsches 911's. I actually adore the 997 shape it's not aging and I feel the 997 will faster. Normally I move my car on every 4 years, but having just blasted through the sunny English countryside, admiring the Porsche 997.2 interior, listening to that flat six sound bounce off the Cotswold stone walls (europipe exhaust fitted) and beating the B roads into whimpering submission - I'm not so sure.
When you get out of the car and listen to pinging of cooling metal, feel the heat from the brakes and look at that, bite the back of hand, gorgeous classic Porsche shape - you know you would be nuts.
And I haven't even fully detailed it yet - once l've had a few hours on polish on it, it will be a true garage queen
£75k Deposit for Aston Martin v12v then?
mnk303 said:
Excellent write up thank you, I own a 2010 997 S2 Turbo S (26000 miles) and driven the new 991 I could not tell a performance difference , ride was better, cosmetics inside better and maybe better made, the steering better in the 997, but as a second car used once a week if lucky I won't be using up £75k to update NOT upgrade I still feel the 97 gen 2 is the last of the era in Porsches 911's. I actually adore the 997 shape it's not aging and I feel the 991 will faster.
Hmm, the seat of the pants dyno and drag race might feel similar, but for sure the 997.2 get's well and truly owned on track by a 991.1, let alone a .2 I still feel the 97 gen 2 is the last of the era in Porsches 911's. I actually adore the 997 shape it's not aging and I feel the 991 will faster. Edited by mnk303 on Sunday 5th June 21:21
The 997's were always mauled by GTR's too - the 991 redressed that balance.
http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/m357vetifl7j
I must say I was very impressed driving a 997.2 TTS though - good car but didn't tempt me out of the GTR unlike the 991.2
s2000db said:
Nothing in it in the acceleration stakes though is there?
On public roads you'll never notice the difference unless you want to get locked up.... Imo....
I tested both on a race track - there is a difference but it was minimal in my hands, maybe more if I was allow to take off PSM - certainly not worth £75k. On public roads you'll never notice the difference unless you want to get locked up.... Imo....
9e30 upgrade would get a nice 997 with a switchable exhaust that would murder a 991 - if that's what you want - but as above, the BiB would throw away the key, if you tried to drive even a standard 997 to its full potential.
I have a 997.2 tts, I think they look so much better, especially the rear which is really clean and has lovely curves, than the 991 which looks fussy and over detailed at the rear. I also think the air intakes over the wheel arches look better as well but appreciate this is all very subjective
Performance wise I am not so keen on the handling on the 997 which requires constant changes to steering inputs whenever you accelerate or lift off on any sort of bend even if you're not really pushing on. Have spent a couple of hours on the Porsche track at Silverstone with a 991 tts, I would say the handling is quite a lot more sorted. Acceleration is probably not that different enough to be important in the real world I would suggest.
As for the GTR, I think that at the end of the day the performance differences are minimal and just not applicable to the real world. Ultimately one is a Datsun, the other is a car by one of the world's greatest car makers.
Performance wise I am not so keen on the handling on the 997 which requires constant changes to steering inputs whenever you accelerate or lift off on any sort of bend even if you're not really pushing on. Have spent a couple of hours on the Porsche track at Silverstone with a 991 tts, I would say the handling is quite a lot more sorted. Acceleration is probably not that different enough to be important in the real world I would suggest.
As for the GTR, I think that at the end of the day the performance differences are minimal and just not applicable to the real world. Ultimately one is a Datsun, the other is a car by one of the world's greatest car makers.
jm doc said:
I have a 997.2 tts, I think they look so much better, especially the rear which is really clean and has lovely curves, than the 991 which looks fussy and over detailed at the rear. I also think the air intakes over the wheel arches look better as well but appreciate this is all very subjective
Performance wise I am not so keen on the handling on the 997 which requires constant changes to steering inputs whenever you accelerate or lift off on any sort of bend even if you're not really pushing on. Have spent a couple of hours on the Porsche track at Silverstone with a 991 tts, I would say the handling is quite a lot more sorted. Acceleration is probably not that different enough to be important in the real world I would suggest.
As for the GTR, I think that at the end of the day the performance differences are minimal and just not applicable to the real world. Ultimately one is a Datsun, the other is a car by one of the world's greatest car makers.
Might want to get your geo checked, mine doesn't do that...Performance wise I am not so keen on the handling on the 997 which requires constant changes to steering inputs whenever you accelerate or lift off on any sort of bend even if you're not really pushing on. Have spent a couple of hours on the Porsche track at Silverstone with a 991 tts, I would say the handling is quite a lot more sorted. Acceleration is probably not that different enough to be important in the real world I would suggest.
As for the GTR, I think that at the end of the day the performance differences are minimal and just not applicable to the real world. Ultimately one is a Datsun, the other is a car by one of the world's greatest car makers.
jm doc said:
Basically it under steers whenever you accelerate, and stops when you lift off. So you are saying that that isn't a fundamental characteristic of a four wheel drive 911?
Only if you're going bonkers, you can also get it to oversteer also btw...If you're getting understeer in moderate speed/acceleration conditions then you should get it checked imo...
Btw it's a Turbo S you have??
Edited by s2000db on Friday 10th June 09:26
From all the videos i've seen, the handling balance of the 991 Turbo is better thanks to the torque vectoring, rear steer and other technology helping out. It gives you more options than the more one-dimensional 997.
The issue i have with the 997 Turbo is that it is neither GT or sports car. It doesn't have a particularly great ride and suffers from has terrible road noise, yet it doesn't deliver an intimate drive as a compromise. A standard 997 Carrera is more enjoyable and sounds a whole lot better too.
The 991 Turbo is still a compromise, but it does both roles much, much better than the 997. Having owned two 997 Turbos, i came away initially thinking the 991 is too cossetted, but over time i realised that it's actually the perfect DD.
I don't want to knock the 997 Turbo, as i did get on much better with the Gen 2, but as a minimum they need a more aggressive geo setup and Cup 2s to bring them to life.
The issue i have with the 997 Turbo is that it is neither GT or sports car. It doesn't have a particularly great ride and suffers from has terrible road noise, yet it doesn't deliver an intimate drive as a compromise. A standard 997 Carrera is more enjoyable and sounds a whole lot better too.
The 991 Turbo is still a compromise, but it does both roles much, much better than the 997. Having owned two 997 Turbos, i came away initially thinking the 991 is too cossetted, but over time i realised that it's actually the perfect DD.
I don't want to knock the 997 Turbo, as i did get on much better with the Gen 2, but as a minimum they need a more aggressive geo setup and Cup 2s to bring them to life.
Not that I particularly noticed on track a fundamental omg difference between 991 and 997.2 - but there is a difference that's not really worth £75k, though the 997.2 turbo s is better with the PSM off imho when on track.
997.2 has torque vectoring, stiffening engine mounts etc - just not 4w steering nor wider/longer wheelbase.
The ride for me is main thing between the 997 and 991, especially on 20" wheels.
997.2 has torque vectoring, stiffening engine mounts etc - just not 4w steering nor wider/longer wheelbase.
The ride for me is main thing between the 997 and 991, especially on 20" wheels.
s2000db said:
jm doc said:
Basically it under steers whenever you accelerate, and stops when you lift off. So you are saying that that isn't a fundamental characteristic of a four wheel drive 911?
Only if you're going bonkers, you can also get it to oversteer also btw...If you're getting understeer in moderate speed/acceleration conditions then you should get it checked imo...
Btw it's a Turbo S you have??
Edited by s2000db on Friday 10th June 09:26
jm doc said:
s2000db said:
jm doc said:
Basically it under steers whenever you accelerate, and stops when you lift off. So you are saying that that isn't a fundamental characteristic of a four wheel drive 911?
Only if you're going bonkers, you can also get it to oversteer also btw...If you're getting understeer in moderate speed/acceleration conditions then you should get it checked imo...
Btw it's a Turbo S you have??
Edited by s2000db on Friday 10th June 09:26
I know nothing about 911s (though fancy buying one sometime soon to see what the fuss is about)...
You must have seen this video...at 2m30s, they launch hands off....dead straight.....
Dunno how it compares to your car but thought I would mention it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5DRCTW-Q7o
You must have seen this video...at 2m30s, they launch hands off....dead straight.....
Dunno how it compares to your car but thought I would mention it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5DRCTW-Q7o
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