Have been sold a clocked car....... what are my options ??
Discussion
A breakdown of the situation:
- Bought a car from a subsidiary of a main dealer (where they sell the nice part ex's - and also buy / sell luxury vehicles)
- Car was bought in Nov / Dec 2015
- Only, yesterday, learned of the official GOV public access database of MOT history
- Looking at this: solid evidence of clocking throughout the cars life
- Car was bought by the garage for resale
- Car was bought by us on a half cash / half hire purchase agreement
- Looks as though it was the owner doing the clocking; garage likely to plead ignorance
- The car value is GREATLY affected by mileage - so this will have a huge impact on our investment
- What kind of comeback can we expect from the garage? They have sold a clocked car, maybe (or maybe not) unwittingly
- Our deal was with the garage and not the original owner... so we shouldn't get involved with him?
- The hire purchase people; will they be a help or a hindrance to us? They have lent money on a car with bogus credentials
- We do not want the car any more... we want to give it back and get our money back.
- What will the law have to say about it all?
- What will the DVLA have to say about it all?
- Is their a civil case against the original owner?
The MOT site is not 100% accurate especially if the plates have been changed. What history did it come with and was it HPI checked before sale?
- What kind of comeback can we expect from the garage? They have sold a clocked car, maybe (or maybe not) unwittingly
- Our deal was with the garage and not the original owner... so we shouldn't get involved with him?
- The hire purchase people; will they be a help or a hindrance to us? They have lent money on a car with bogus credentials
- We do not want the car any more... we want to give it back and get our money back.
- What will the law have to say about it all?
- What will the DVLA have to say about it all?
- Is their a civil case against the original owner?
Edited by KTF on Thursday 9th June 11:33
Personally I would offer the garage the evidence as they should have also done due diligence on a vehicle they sold and allow them the opportunity to make it all correct.
I would inform the lender of the situation and see what they say and advise you are going to seek the dealer to make good initially.
The dealer will likely try to distance itself from all this so I would be prepared to get a crime ref number to support the sale of a tainted vehicle by them
I would inform the lender of the situation and see what they say and advise you are going to seek the dealer to make good initially.
The dealer will likely try to distance itself from all this so I would be prepared to get a crime ref number to support the sale of a tainted vehicle by them
Clocking itself isn't illegal.
What is illegal is advertising it as a genuine mileage if it isn't. So it will depend a lot on how it was advertised. And to be fair the dealer may not have known, although if they claim to HPI check their cars, it should have shown up. So you may have some come back here.
And while people seem to hate this. The reality is, you are a legal adult and must take responsibility for your own actions. This means you could have gotten a history check on the vehicle BEFORE buying. Not 7 months after taking ownership. So, some of the responsibility lies with you.
I would first look at how the car was sold to you, as in what was said about the mileage and any HPI style claims the dealer claims to perform.
You can then go armed with the facts and politely show them. Going in guns blazing is unlikely to provoke a helpful response however.
That said, at best I would think all you can expect is 'x' amount of money back. Or they may have the car back from you minus depreciation, use and some other additional costs.
All in, it'll probably be a lot of effort for not a massive amount of gain.
But it is probably worth approaching them initially to see how amenable they are likely to be. And it's also worth considering the car as a whole. If you were happy with it before knowing it was clocked, then the reality is, the car hasn't changed. It is still the same car.
What is illegal is advertising it as a genuine mileage if it isn't. So it will depend a lot on how it was advertised. And to be fair the dealer may not have known, although if they claim to HPI check their cars, it should have shown up. So you may have some come back here.
And while people seem to hate this. The reality is, you are a legal adult and must take responsibility for your own actions. This means you could have gotten a history check on the vehicle BEFORE buying. Not 7 months after taking ownership. So, some of the responsibility lies with you.
I would first look at how the car was sold to you, as in what was said about the mileage and any HPI style claims the dealer claims to perform.
You can then go armed with the facts and politely show them. Going in guns blazing is unlikely to provoke a helpful response however.
That said, at best I would think all you can expect is 'x' amount of money back. Or they may have the car back from you minus depreciation, use and some other additional costs.
All in, it'll probably be a lot of effort for not a massive amount of gain.
But it is probably worth approaching them initially to see how amenable they are likely to be. And it's also worth considering the car as a whole. If you were happy with it before knowing it was clocked, then the reality is, the car hasn't changed. It is still the same car.
eybic said:
I've seen quite a few mileage errors on MOT's so I wouldn't take it as being 100% correct.
I've seen them on imports where some MOT stations calculate kms into miles, whilst others just put the km reading which is fairly normal, but I'm struggling to think how they could make an error other than that?Back on topic, what car is it, what is the real mileage and what is the odo showing?
It had a plate change very early on in its life and not since I believe. The issue is that... it's not one mileage error... there are four instances where the mileage has changed and the MOT dates seem odd: not every 12 months as expected but at funny intervals. Most recently two MOTs issued within 5 months of each other; the second one being not long before the sale... and you guessed it, the mileage dropped drastically on the second.
Just cross-posting my response to this from your other thread where you posted the MoT data:
---
The pattern of the MoT's really makes no sense.
4/10/11 6,426
19/10/11 20,044
11/09/12 11,033
30/10/12 21,999
26/10/13 17,906
02/05/14 25,972
25/10/14 30,275
01/05/15 26,733
25/07/15 36,614
20/11/15 27,836
To me it looks more like there are two or more cars there and the MoT system has gone completely daffy, plate change confusion maybe? If you extract every second entry from the list it seems to make a lot more sense.
4/10/11 6,426
11/09/12 11,033
26/10/13 17,906
25/10/14 30,275
25/07/15 36,614
19/10/11 20,044
30/10/12 21,999
02/05/14 25,972
01/05/15 26,733
20/11/15 27,836
If it's clocking it's the most grossly incompetent attempt I've ever seen. I'd be questioning the data myself, although clocking is a possibility I guess.
---
---
The pattern of the MoT's really makes no sense.
4/10/11 6,426
19/10/11 20,044
11/09/12 11,033
30/10/12 21,999
26/10/13 17,906
02/05/14 25,972
25/10/14 30,275
01/05/15 26,733
25/07/15 36,614
20/11/15 27,836
To me it looks more like there are two or more cars there and the MoT system has gone completely daffy, plate change confusion maybe? If you extract every second entry from the list it seems to make a lot more sense.
4/10/11 6,426
11/09/12 11,033
26/10/13 17,906
25/10/14 30,275
25/07/15 36,614
19/10/11 20,044
30/10/12 21,999
02/05/14 25,972
01/05/15 26,733
20/11/15 27,836
If it's clocking it's the most grossly incompetent attempt I've ever seen. I'd be questioning the data myself, although clocking is a possibility I guess.
---
vtecyo said:
I've seen them on imports where some MOT stations calculate kms into miles, whilst others just put the km reading which is fairly normal, but I'm struggling to think how they could make an error other than that?
Tester enters wrong reading into MOT computer. Not for four years in a row though but it does happen. LDN said:
A breakdown of the situation:
What sort of age of vehicle are we talking about?- Bought a car from a subsidiary of a main dealer (where they sell the nice part ex's - and also buy / sell luxury vehicles)
- Car was bought in Nov / Dec 2015
- Only, yesterday, learned of the official GOV public access database of MOT history
- Looking at this: solid evidence of clocking throughout the cars life
The MOT certificate carries the mileages at the last five MOTs - does that not show this "solid evidence"?
What does HPI say?
What does the service history say?
Vaud said:
charltjr said:
4/10/11 6,426
19/10/11 20,044
I'd be questioning the data myself, although clocking is a possibility I guess.
13,500 miles in 15 days would hint at poor data to me. 900 miles a day is possible, but unlikely.19/10/11 20,044
I'd be questioning the data myself, although clocking is a possibility I guess.
OP, how does it correspond to the service history?
vtecyo said:
eybic said:
I've seen quite a few mileage errors on MOT's so I wouldn't take it as being 100% correct.
I've seen them on imports where some MOT stations calculate kms into miles, whilst others just put the km reading which is fairly normal, but I'm struggling to think how they could make an error other than that?Back on topic, what car is it, what is the real mileage and what is the odo showing?
charltjr said:
Just cross-posting my response to this from your other thread where you posted the MoT data:
---
The pattern of the MoT's really makes no sense.
4/10/11 6,426
19/10/11 20,044
11/09/12 11,033
30/10/12 21,999
26/10/13 17,906
02/05/14 25,972
25/10/14 30,275
01/05/15 26,733
25/07/15 36,614
20/11/15 27,836
To me it looks more like there are two or more cars there and the MoT system has gone completely daffy, plate change confusion maybe? If you extract every second entry from the list it seems to make a lot more sense.
4/10/11 6,426
11/09/12 11,033
26/10/13 17,906
25/10/14 30,275
25/07/15 36,614
19/10/11 20,044
30/10/12 21,999
02/05/14 25,972
01/05/15 26,733
20/11/15 27,836
If it's clocking it's the most grossly incompetent attempt I've ever seen. I'd be questioning the data myself, although clocking is a possibility I guess.
---
Excellent post and well spotted. ---
The pattern of the MoT's really makes no sense.
4/10/11 6,426
19/10/11 20,044
11/09/12 11,033
30/10/12 21,999
26/10/13 17,906
02/05/14 25,972
25/10/14 30,275
01/05/15 26,733
25/07/15 36,614
20/11/15 27,836
To me it looks more like there are two or more cars there and the MoT system has gone completely daffy, plate change confusion maybe? If you extract every second entry from the list it seems to make a lot more sense.
4/10/11 6,426
11/09/12 11,033
26/10/13 17,906
25/10/14 30,275
25/07/15 36,614
19/10/11 20,044
30/10/12 21,999
02/05/14 25,972
01/05/15 26,733
20/11/15 27,836
If it's clocking it's the most grossly incompetent attempt I've ever seen. I'd be questioning the data myself, although clocking is a possibility I guess.
---
I'd be following this theory as it seems (for whatever reason) the most likely reason.
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