Monday 28th February 2005

TVR lays off 90 people

Production expected to increase following Sagaris launch

---

TVR confirmed on Friday that there were 90 lay-offs at the factory out of a workforce of about 400. Lay-offs (not redundancies) have been across the board, in the offices as well as shop floor.

 

The company expects production to increase again shortly following this week's Sagaris launch on Wednesday. Tuscan II Convertible builds are also expected to ramp up soon.

[jem]

translation = don't panic.

J

[tvrfreak]

Yank question: What's the difference between redundancy and lay-off? Is it a redundancy when there is a chance you might be called back? Thanks.

[_DeeJay_]

tvrfreak said:

Yank question: What's the difference between redundancy and lay-off? Is it a redundancy when there is a chance you might be called back? Thanks.

No, redundancy is exactly that - your position is redundant so the role that your perform is no longer required.

For example, if TVR moved from producing fibreglass cars to metal then there would be redundancies for the staff who were skilled in fibre glass.

If, however the company does not sell enough products to keep the staff utilised they may lay some off (and re-recruit when production/orders pick up).

The key difference is that you cannot make someone redundant and then replace them with someone else shortly afterwards.

D




>> Edited by _DeeJay_ on Thursday 3rd March 15:52

[Big Al.]

tvrfreak said:

Is it a redundancy when there is a chance you might be called back? Thanks.

Other way around! Layoff = possible call back.

[andyvdg]

Err, legally it's either a redundancy or a dismissal. If a contract has come to end end it could be a dismissal, but I suspect they are redundancies.

I know of no term "lay-off".

I find it a little odd they are making redundancies during the busiest part of the year - most car show sales come through for March the next year. I guess they haven't taken as many orders as planned....

[2 Smokin Barrels]

andyvdg said:

Err, legally it's either a redundancy or a dismissal. If a contract has come to end end it could be a dismissal, but I suspect they are redundancies. I know of no term "lay-off". I find it a little odd they are making redundancies during the busiest part of the year - most car show sales come through for March the next year. I guess they haven't taken as many orders as planned....

I suppose you can come to a mutually agreed arrangement to remain in employment, but not paid & not attending, similar to unpaid holiday I guess.

In the early 90s, short time working etc was fairly common, e.g. "laid off" for part of a working period.

[jay1]

hopefully tvr will be taking the staff back in the next 4 weeks,

[Big Al.]

jay1 said:

hopefully tvr will be taking the staff back in the next 4 weeks,

We all hope that. OH

[dickymint]

_DeeJay_ said:

The key difference is that you cannot make someone redundant and then replace them with someone else shortly afterwards. D >> Edited by _DeeJay_ on Thursday 3rd March 15:52

Oh yes you can - but you face a tribunial and probably loose.

The main difference is all about money!! Made redundant and get paid off. Laid off and you dont get paid!! After 4 weeks without being paid you can claim redundancy and take the payoff.
IMHO good business sense it may be but STINGY !

[blownout]

Dear all, to update you on the situation within the factory regarding layoffs.(A layoff as far as TVR is concerned is 5 minutes notice and up to now! thrown out of the door with no means of supporting your family, No correspondence between workers and employer, no negotiation between employer and union, voted in by majority vote of shop floor workers and employees with up to 15 years service having no rights as far as respect/health and safety and working procedure) The employees concerned have been singled out because of their strife for decent working conditions and a negotiating body within TVR which has never existed, this originated during the Peter Wheeler years and unfourtunately has been inherited by Mr Smoleski. I quote in his 1st address to the workforce "I would welcome your Union, Iam a family man and wish to see TVR move on with your help" a different story to a later meeting where the workers were told if the union were voted in, then Mr Smoleski would pull his funding from TVR, close it down and re-establish some where else! The Layoffs have been caused by a failing of the Directors and inability of the now reinstalation of a management team that led to Mr Wheelers demise and continues to be unable to put TVR were it belongs! within the realms of the supercar fraternity along with its supercar workers! I call on all owners and potentional buyers to help all the workers and their families to realise a dream for you and theirselves! Let the people who Design , Develop and Build your dream be treated with the respect and talent they deserve and not of a seedy asian sweatshop. Iam one of the Layoffs that has seen no support, information or help from TVR for 5 weeks! How would you pay your Mortgage, how would you pay your bills! There is no support package for laid off workers! We the people with the know and technical abilitys to build your supercar, to a safe and acceptable standard have been thrown on the scrapheap with nothing and people that have been brought in over the last 2 months are doing our jobs, unskilled and unaware of the pitfalls that face them!!! The skilled workers of this company are being starved out of existance, or forced to get jobs elsewhere ( just like the germans did to the russians in stalingrad!) with no redundancy package or any other means of support! Tell me would you buy a car off a man like this!???

[joospeed]

Best lay off (!) the beer before you post again i think.

I wonder if Nik will post his side of the story..?

I think it's fair to say that most people who get made redundant don't get much more than a token gesture payout (legal minimum) and a "fair thee well" from the front doorstep. .. sounds like you've not even got that much, but to be honest are you at all surprised?

and as for skilled workforce .. skilled in what exactly? skilled in building a cut-price bath for the road that needs constant money, repairs and attention to keep it going .. that's the pattern of TVR in the past and I see no changes yet.

maybe you need to re-evaluate your post if you want to appeal to the seasoned TVR/PH collective. rememeber we're the ones driving / repairing and paying for the skillfully built supercars and we know exactly how well they're made.

The vast majority of the blackpool workforce is easily replaced at the drop of a hat with anyone off the promenade .. sad to say you're not a valued commodity. If you were invaluable would Nik have let you go? He's young but I bet he's not daft.

[drifting]

Blownout

Got to say that maybe because of your layoff the anger has taken over, but your reply has all the makings of a 70's union rep. (one out, all out!)
If you own a house and everyone leaves all the lights on then you will be facing a big electric bill, so you will find a way to try to reduce this.
In this day and age I'm afraid that no job is safe for life and you have got to be glad for it for the time you stay there.
I don't mean to have a go but the way the world is at the moment this could happen to any of us at anytime.

Drifting

[drifting]

joospeed said:

Best lay off (!) the beer before you post again i think. I wonder if Nik will post his side of the story..? I think it's fair to say that most people who get made redundant don't get much more than a token gesture payout (legal minimum) and a "fair thee well" from the front doorstep. .. sounds like you've not even got that much, but to be honest are you at all surprised? and as for skilled workforce .. skilled in what exactly? skilled in building a cut-price bath for the road that needs constant money, repairs and attention to keep it going .. that's the pattern of TVR in the past and I see no changes yet. maybe you need to re-evaluate your post if you want to appeal to the seasoned TVR/PH collective. rememeber we're the ones driving / repairing and paying for the skillfully built supercars and we know exactly how well they're made. The vast majority of the blackpool workforce is easily replaced at the drop of a hat with anyone off the promenade .. sad to say you're not a valued commodity. If you were invaluable would Nik have let you go? He's young but I bet he's not daft.

You bugger you beat me to it !

Drifting

[Mr Freefall]

joospeed said:

Best lay off (!) the beer before you post again i think. I wonder if Nik will post his side of the story..? I think it's fair to say that most people who get made redundant don't get much more than a token gesture payout (legal minimum) and a "fair thee well" from the front doorstep. .. sounds like you've not even got that much, but to be honest are you at all surprised? and as for skilled workforce .. skilled in what exactly? skilled in building a cut-price bath for the road that needs constant money, repairs and attention to keep it going .. that's the pattern of TVR in the past and I see no changes yet. maybe you need to re-evaluate your post if you want to appeal to the seasoned TVR/PH collective. rememeber we're the ones driving / repairing and paying for the skillfully built supercars and we know exactly how well they're made. The vast majority of the blackpool workforce is easily replaced at the drop of a hat with anyone off the promenade .. sad to say you're not a valued commodity. If you were invaluable would Nik have let you go? He's young but I bet he's not daft.

Fooking ell jools, holding no punches there then...

Perpahs the comment on the 'and as for skilled workforce .. skilled in what exactly? skilled in building a cut-price bath for the road that needs constant money, repairs and attention to keep it going ' was a bit unfair, I dare say that this person would have not say in the matter if he wanted to spend 100 more hours on a TVR to get the QC 110%, Thats an issue for management, not the shop workers.

Oh, and its these poor build quality TVR's that keep you in business, so dont slag then off too much...

I have to be honest, not the sort of post I would have expected from you. Just IMHO, and no offence intended.

Mr F

[whitechimp500]

I dont know the ins and outs of any of this but proffer ;

Blownout - Commiserations mate , it must be rough , no money coming in for the last 5 weeks , hopefully better thing s on the horizon .

Joospeed - FFS the tone of your post's a bit strong isn't it ?
Regardless of how you perceive the lay offs and changes at TVR and the reasonings therin - this Guys out of collar and probably skint and can be forgiven for being a tad P!ssed *ff - Cut him some slack mate .

[Graham]

AHhh thats the Joolz we love.... Someone who calls a spade somthing you tt people with



G

[HarryW]

Agree with teh last couple of posts, Joolz you're a little harsh there. A bit like someone coming on here calling all mechnics spanner whilding monkey's, not nice.
The post is obviously heart felt and should be taken in that context IMMHO. Looking for recognition as a workforce should not be dimissed lightly even in this day and age. Consider where that ultimately ends, next we'll all be expected to doff our collective hats to Camilla et al, regardless and be thankful for it .

Harry

[UKBoB]

Im not knowlegable enough to feel strongly opinionated either way, so on behalf of everyone in my shoes, rosary beads and prayer mats to the ready - may the outcome be positive for us all in the long term.

[_DeeJay_]

There is two sides to every story, though getting absolutely no compensation, a very short notice period and no help in finding alternate employment does not sounds particularly good business practice or fair on any employee.

I understand there's no room for sentiment in business, but surely employment law would see all employees are treated better than that. I don't pretend to understand the difference between lay-offs and redundancy, but I know the process of 'getting rid' of employees is either very difficult or very expensive in my line of work so struggle to understand the legalities of your position.

If the above statements are true then I truely feel for you - 5 weeks without pay and no opportunity to find work before hand is an unenviable position and I hope you manage to find alternate employment soon.

OK, so TVR's aren't the best quality product in the world, but I can't blame the individual (especially an anonymous poster on the Internet) for that. IIRC, the majority of layoffs were from the fibreglass team and TVR bodies seem to be one thing that is of decent quality.

All the best for progressing your career. I don't think attempting to campaign about your treatment on here will have any effect, though it does sadden me that the 'TVR family' seems to be getting less friendly. I could accept it if it were a necessary evil in the process of improving professionalism and ultimately product quality but that does not appear to be the case.

Don't we have a TVR PR person on here now who could give us the other side of this particular story?

Darren.


>> Edited by _DeeJay_ on Tuesday 5th April 04:04

[joospeed]

Well I gree that this person may well want to spend many more hours on every car and that management are probably the ones responsible for the poor end product, but that doesn't mean that the whole / some / any workforce is skilled, in fact if they're not allowed to spend the proper time on each build then they're never going to be skilled, ever. They just don't have the time/practice!

I hate the fact that people think because i make my living from TVRs that i should be in awe of Blackpool, the cars and the owners. I've made my whole reputation on being up-front .. i made my business on not white-washing over all the flaws that the dealers do, I'm ed if i'm gonna start watering down my posts to suit a few lilly-livered PH liberals.

If you don't like what I say don't e*fing read it.