Heavy Steering
Discussion
Hi need a bit of help with heavy steering which occasionally goes back to normal but most of the time is heavy.
It started a few weeks ago when I hit a series of about 10 pot holes while braking for a roundabout. Front drivers wheel went in every one. Instant heavy steering, so heavy you had to turn the lock back off. Slow drive home, with the odd few minutes where it returned to normal, but most if of the time very heavy.
Found the pinion and bottom u/j had a lot of play but little else seemed to be wrong, all suspension looks OK, tracking was about 10' toe out but that's it. Decide to have the rack rebuilt, as it was leaking anyway. Kiley Clinton did a great job turning it around in 2 days.
So refitted refurbished rack, 2 new UJs, 2 new track rod ends, new PAS rubber hoses, and new hose from pump to rack. Filled it up with Mobil ATF fluid, and set tracking to 15' toe in.
Taken it for a test drive, better than before but still have heavy steering, which returned to normal for about 3 minutes and has then been heavy since.
I'm getting worried about the pump now, I cracked the pipe unions on the rack while running, and moving the rack side to side. Definitely bled some air out, but the flow seems quite poor. Does anybody know what pressure the pump runs at?
Any thoughts? It's a 2000 4.5 so hopefully not the woodruff key. Any one ever had a pump fail, or is there a pressure relief valve somewhere.
Any help gratefully received
MM
It started a few weeks ago when I hit a series of about 10 pot holes while braking for a roundabout. Front drivers wheel went in every one. Instant heavy steering, so heavy you had to turn the lock back off. Slow drive home, with the odd few minutes where it returned to normal, but most if of the time very heavy.
Found the pinion and bottom u/j had a lot of play but little else seemed to be wrong, all suspension looks OK, tracking was about 10' toe out but that's it. Decide to have the rack rebuilt, as it was leaking anyway. Kiley Clinton did a great job turning it around in 2 days.
So refitted refurbished rack, 2 new UJs, 2 new track rod ends, new PAS rubber hoses, and new hose from pump to rack. Filled it up with Mobil ATF fluid, and set tracking to 15' toe in.
Taken it for a test drive, better than before but still have heavy steering, which returned to normal for about 3 minutes and has then been heavy since.
I'm getting worried about the pump now, I cracked the pipe unions on the rack while running, and moving the rack side to side. Definitely bled some air out, but the flow seems quite poor. Does anybody know what pressure the pump runs at?
Any thoughts? It's a 2000 4.5 so hopefully not the woodruff key. Any one ever had a pump fail, or is there a pressure relief valve somewhere.
Any help gratefully received
MM
gruffalo said:
Broken woodruff key on the pump shaft letting it spin, some times it grips but mostly spins and provides no pas.
Spot on Gruffalo, took the pas pump off today and no sign of a woodruff key, keyway damaged too!I thought being a 2000 car it would have the uprated key.
Looks like I'll be going for the electric pas conversion. Has anybody had one done at a TVR specialist, or is it a pure DIY job? If so any advice or tips welcome
Thanks
Searider said:
Any reason not to repair what's there rather than change the configuration?
The shaft is too badly damaged to replace the woodruff key, and as far as I understand you have to take the engine out to remove the jack shaft that drives the PAS pump to be able to machine a new key slot.Electric PAS is a simpler fix in the short term.
MoonMonkey said:
Searider said:
Any reason not to repair what's there rather than change the configuration?
The shaft is too badly damaged to replace the woodruff key, and as far as I understand you have to take the engine out to remove the jack shaft that drives the PAS pump to be able to machine a new key slot.Electric PAS is a simpler fix in the short term.
I brought a saxo pump of flee bay for a massive £15.
I fed the power straight from the battery via a relay and a 35A fuse. The relay is energised by the fuel pump output from the ECU so you get pas as soon as you turn the ignition on.
The pump is mounted where the washer bottle was fitted on the early Cerb's and the washer bottle is now mounted on the drivers side chassis rail.
The F1 panel is now hung on the wall in my garage.
I manager to get a remote reservoir pump and retained the original fluid bottle.
The con to all this is the pump is heavy and the F1 panel no longer fits.
The pro's are great feel, pas without the engine running and not relying on a pump off a Pug Diesel or LAnd Rover diesel for pas, those pumps will always be prone to failure as they were never intended to be mounted to an engine spinning at 7k rpm, more like 4K.
I went down a different route when mine failed.
I took the pump off and had three threaded holes put into the end. There is a grub screw in each of these holes. Do them up tight with some joining compound so they don't come loose and it has been fine ever since. I believe it is Jools mod.
I took the pump off and had three threaded holes put into the end. There is a grub screw in each of these holes. Do them up tight with some joining compound so they don't come loose and it has been fine ever since. I believe it is Jools mod.
Thanks for all the advice.
As per my previous post I decided to go for the Saxo electric pump. I managed to get a pump from Ebay, plus wiring harness, relay, remote reservoir and bracket for a total of £65.
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All in all quite simple to fit in the Mk2 chassis, just had to cut the original mounting brackets off the Saxo pump and weld some new brackets on, so that the pump sits on top of the chassis tubes. I then used some u clamps to fix the brackets to the chassis tubes, therefore it will be easy to remove should I ever want to go back to the original pump.
|http://thumbsnap.com/dlMP8uCX[/url][url]
I located the remote reservoir on the drivers bank air box bracket. Also using the remote reservoir pump on the Mk 2 allows you to refit the F1 panel with no issues.
|http://thumbsnap.com/ByXYzwNF[/url]
Power steering restored! Simple conversion and good assitance, the only downside is the hum, as the pump starts running as soon as you switch on the ignition, however the hum seems to disappear when you fire it up:-)
As per my previous post I decided to go for the Saxo electric pump. I managed to get a pump from Ebay, plus wiring harness, relay, remote reservoir and bracket for a total of £65.
[url]All in all quite simple to fit in the Mk2 chassis, just had to cut the original mounting brackets off the Saxo pump and weld some new brackets on, so that the pump sits on top of the chassis tubes. I then used some u clamps to fix the brackets to the chassis tubes, therefore it will be easy to remove should I ever want to go back to the original pump.
|http://thumbsnap.com/dlMP8uCX[/url][url]I located the remote reservoir on the drivers bank air box bracket. Also using the remote reservoir pump on the Mk 2 allows you to refit the F1 panel with no issues.
|http://thumbsnap.com/ByXYzwNF[/url]Power steering restored! Simple conversion and good assitance, the only downside is the hum, as the pump starts running as soon as you switch on the ignition, however the hum seems to disappear when you fire it up:-)
You were very unlucky. Usually the Woodruff keys just shears leaving the keyway undamaged. The most difficult part of the repair for me was working what was the correct size replacement key.
Having tried a few different sizes now, I can replace the key in an hour or so, and they cost about £2 each.
Having tried a few different sizes now, I can replace the key in an hour or so, and they cost about £2 each.
Yes, feel I don't have a lot of luck with my TVR, really frustrating as it was just poor road maintenance by the council.
I had a look at my shaft with an endoscope, and it is far more damage than yours, it has a chunk missing from the side of the slot. Probably the key was failing for some time before it let go.
Electric conversion was really simple as got most of the kit from the Saxo, so just the brackets and a bit of wiring to do. I keep thinking I'll get the shaft sorted next time the engine comes out, but the conversion works really well so probably won't change back
I had a look at my shaft with an endoscope, and it is far more damage than yours, it has a chunk missing from the side of the slot. Probably the key was failing for some time before it let go.
Electric conversion was really simple as got most of the kit from the Saxo, so just the brackets and a bit of wiring to do. I keep thinking I'll get the shaft sorted next time the engine comes out, but the conversion works really well so probably won't change back
purpleliability said:
So did you remove the standard power steering pump when fitting the electric steering pump?
There was talk of fitting a variable resistor to the electric power steering to adjust weight, are you happy with how it feels as it is?
Had a debate with myself about leaving the original pump in place to give the shaft some location, but decided not to in the end. Interested to hear other peoples opinion/experience though.There was talk of fitting a variable resistor to the electric power steering to adjust weight, are you happy with how it feels as it is?
Steering feel is good at all speeds, obviously it's heavier at slow speeds but don't think it any worse than the original, and it's not too light at speed either. So not sure it's worth the effort of trying to have variable assistance
ukkid35 said:
You were very unlucky. Usually the Woodruff keys just shears leaving the keyway undamaged. The most difficult part of the repair for me was working what was the correct size replacement key.
Having tried a few different sizes now, I can replace the key in an hour or so, and they cost about £2 each.
UKKID - can you explain how you go about changing the key? EG Do you have the lift the engine up a little, etc.Having tried a few different sizes now, I can replace the key in an hour or so, and they cost about £2 each.
Remove the four bolts securing the pump from underneath, long ball headed Allen key needed.
No need to tilt engine, just remove tray and wheel.
Don't think I even removed the fluid lines, there was enough to shift the pump back an inch or so.
You will need to use something to hold the new Woodruff Key in place as you slide the coupling back, perhaps superglue, as it will want to escape.
Clean up the slot in the coupling thoroughly.
I can't remember the right size key, and I'm abroad at the moment so can't check the spare, sorry.
Because I tried to do this with an improvised key made of washers ground to size, I have done this several times now, and can replace the key in about an hour.
No need to tilt engine, just remove tray and wheel.
Don't think I even removed the fluid lines, there was enough to shift the pump back an inch or so.
You will need to use something to hold the new Woodruff Key in place as you slide the coupling back, perhaps superglue, as it will want to escape.
Clean up the slot in the coupling thoroughly.
I can't remember the right size key, and I'm abroad at the moment so can't check the spare, sorry.
Because I tried to do this with an improvised key made of washers ground to size, I have done this several times now, and can replace the key in about an hour.
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