Harness installs - New Clio RS16

[theboyfold]

I thought I'd put this question here, as I guess this is where most of the knowledge will reside. The new Clio RS16 has a harness in, and it doesn't have a harness bar:



I thought it was quite dangerous for a harness to be bolted to the floor like that with a steep angle from mounting to shoulder. Or, am I wrong and the engineers at Renault right? I'm a little confused.

[E-bmw]

Primarily it is down to the harness manufacturer who decides how they can/can't be fitted.

Personally, I have never understood why it has been said by many about the angle of the rear section being close to horizontal.

IMHO if the harness is doing it's job (and tightened correctly) you won't move when inverted, so I can't see how the angle of the back section could cause spinal compression, quite the opposite, as the lesser angle will allow more give & may result in head/roof contact if EVEN slightly slack.

But that is just my opinion, I am no expert.

[Steve H]

And then there's the question of whether you want harnesses in a car that isn't caged.........

[Chr1sch]

Steve H said:

And then there's the question of whether you want harnesses in a car that isn't caged.........

Indeed..I have a set to go in my car but I'm guessing that a new Clio has a stronger roof than my 20 year old 306...

[E-bmw]

Steve H said:

And then there's the question of whether you want harnesses in a car that isn't caged.........

Good point.

[Rick101]

I've seen that photo before and was quite surprised. I certainly wouldn't have them fitted like that.

Had the usual people come out with how do I know better than the manufacturers who spend millions yada yada.

Entirely up to the user and their risk level.

[theboyfold]

Steve H said:

And then there's the question of whether you want harnesses in a car that isn't caged.........

What's the advantage / requirement to have a cage? (Serious question as I'm curious to understand why this is the case)

[E-bmw]

If you have a harness but no cage & rollover you can't move out of the way of the roof.

If you have a cage & no harness you could hit your head on the cage.

You REALLY need both together or not at all.

[theboyfold]

E-bmw said:

If you have a harness but no cage & rollover you can't move out of the way of the roof.

If you have a cage & no harness you could hit your head on the cage.

You REALLY need both together or not at all.

Cheers, makes sense really

[daniel-5zjw7]

It's definitely an interesting one especially given as this is from a manufacturer.. I also have always been of the understanding that harnesses installed like that could possibly pull down on your shoulders during an accident and that harnesses/buckets are not suitable without a rollcage.

But no doubt Renault must have had to do some R&D on this to get this set up in to production?

[88racing]

Its not uncommon to see race cars with their harnesses fitted like that - even when they do have a roll cage. However, since the wearing of a HANS device became compulsory in circuit racing this season, its now recommended though to have them anchored between horizontal and no more than 20 degrees below horizontal. See this MSA document:

https://www.msauk.org/assets/fhrguidance.pdf

[Fonzey]

E-bmw said:

If you have a harness but no cage & rollover you can't move out of the way of the roof.

If you have a cage & no harness you could hit your head on the cage.

You REALLY need both together or not at all.

I'd make an argument for a Helmet and HANS too if adding the cage/harness combo. After all that, particularly on a road car it makes you wonder if 3 point belts are all that bad?

[Ian_sUK]

I ran harnesses in a Clio exactly like that. I read all the info but decided I was OK with the (apparent) risk.

[df76]

Fonzey said:

E-bmw said:

If you have a harness but no cage & rollover you can't move out of the way of the roof.

If you have a cage & no harness you could hit your head on the cage.

You REALLY need both together or not at all.

I'd make an argument for a Helmet and HANS too if adding the cage/harness combo. After all that, particularly on a road car it makes you wonder if 3 point belts are all that bad?

Completely agree. Either go the whole way, or leave all of the standard passive safety gear in place (and get a CG lock for the seat belt).

[GC8]

This a topic on which everyone is an 'expert'.

My constructive comment follows: cross the webbing straps over - this will making stretching less of an issue.

[EvoIV NL]

GC8 said:

This a topic on which everyone is an 'expert'.

My constructive comment follows: cross the webbing straps over - this will making stretching less of an issue.

Isnt crossing the straps a solution if your fixing points are too far part which would have the potential of the straps coming off your shoulders when tension is applied ? So rather its a solution to fixing/anchor points not stretching.

But agreed, in the picture above I would also be looking to cross the straps.

[nickfrog]

The RS16 is not a production car so difficult to tell if it would be like that if/when it made production although the Trophy-R had that angle, with a cage though.

Apparently, in case of crash the forces throw you forward and if the straps hold you back, there is an opposing force in the opposite direction of the strap... The greater the angle, the more that force is pushing down on your shoulders rather than pinning you back.

I have a harnesses in my Megane at 40deg or so and non-fixed buckets - I spoke to Recaro and they commented on the angle being "acceptable" at up to 45deg (and that the Sportser CS are designed for a harness). This is for track use only, and while far from optimised without a cage, I am reasonably happy with the risk.