So was Dubya right all along...?

[andymadmak]

Sorry if this has been done before, but just looking at the world today.....

Libya gives up WMD

Israel and Palestine actually talking and maintaining peace despite lunatic suicide bombers

Saudi Arabia allowing female voting

Syria to quite Lebanon

Iran cooperating

Elections in Iraq


I know it's not as simple as this, and that those statements can be contested, but is it just possible that there might have been something in Dubya's War on Terror policy after all?

[968]

andymadmak said:

Sorry if this has been done before, but just looking at the world today..... Libya gives up WMD Israel and Palestine actually talking and maintaining peace despite lunatic suicide bombers Saudi Arabia allowing female voting Syria to quite Lebanon Iran cooperating Elections in Iraq I know it's not as simple as this, and that those statements can be contested, but is it just possible that there might have been something in Dubya's War on Terror policy after all?

not particularly, no, particularly because none of these areas have anything to do with Al Qaeda or Osama Bin Laden

[Yertis]

Bin Ladin is quite closely associated with Saudi Arabia...

[Balmoral Green]

Yertis said:

Bin Ladin is quite closely associated with Saudi Arabia...

Hard not to be when thats where you actually come from.

[ofcorsa]

maybe not directly to do with osama et al but i do think they have shown a zero tolerance to matters of terrorism which may have indirectly influence these events

[Yertis]

Balmoral Green said:

Yertis said: Bin Ladin is quite closely associated with Saudi Arabia... Hard not to be when thats where you actually come from.

Quite. And he has alot of friends there.

[968]

ofcorsa said:

maybe not directly to do with osama et al but i do think they have shown a zero tolerance to matters of terrorism which may have indirectly influence these events

No, they have done nothing to Al Qaeda at all, none of these events/countries listed are anything, in particular to do with Osama. Yes he is from Saudi and Saudi is the one arab state that should be censured, but has mysteriously escaped all censure because they tow the party line. I am unaware of any women being allowed to vote in Saudi (there have been local elections for the first time in some cities, but women were excluded from the vote.)

As for Iran, the EU have been negotiating with Iran for many months, and have used US belligerance as a stick for their carrot.

[danhay]

Only time will tell, but you have to balance the good against the cost in human lives and suffering of the Iraq war. It may be a win in the long term?

[v8thunder]

Osama Bin Laden was exiled from Saudi Arabia, wasn't he?

[hornet]

Does the situation in Lebanon not owe more to the Lebanese protesting following the assassination of Hariri? I'm sure some opportune international pressure has helped speed things along, but in this instance I think people power was the trigger. Be interesting to see if that people power cascades through the region though. Assuming Syria withdraws and Lebanon doesn't descend into another civil war, what odds people in other countries thinking "hang on, they protested against their own Government and got a result, maybe we should too?".

Not sure about Libya - surely they have been out in the cold for years and just decided to give in to international pressure. I don't think Gadaffi suddenly thought "oh no, the US has invaded Iraq, I'd best start behaving now". I'd imagine there was a hell of a lot going on behind the scenes to get Libya on side before Bush even knew where it was.

[peterpeter]

was he right about WMDs?

er no.

[ofcorsa]

Gazboy said:

andymadmak said: Sorry if this has been done before, but just looking at the world today..... Libya gives up WMD Wasn't that so crushing sanctions could be lifted? Israel and Palestine actually talking and maintaining peace despite lunatic suicide bombers can't see it lasting more than a few days. Saudi Arabia allowing female voting limited local elections for some men iirc. Women still can't drive etc... Syria to quite Lebanon Did Bush have anything to do with this? I read about it over the weekend papers, didn't see his name mentioned, tho they, and I could be wrong. Iran cooperating Since when? Elections in Iraq yes, 'the bad guys won'. probably a good thing if you read Mark Steels comments on thursday regarding the Afgan elections. I know it's not as simple as this, and that those statements can be contested, but is it just possible that there might have been something in Dubya's War on Terror policy after all? His war on terror has sweet fanny adams to do with terror

So after almost ten years of sanctions libya now decides to relinquish arms?


syria are quiting lebanon because of a UN resolution which bush backed heavily. and also offered to act quickly with toughter sanctions if the syria fail to pull out, syria have been there over 30 years i believe the focus on the middle east has forces these issues

il admit though its probably more luck than judgement

[andymadmak]

hornet said:

Does the situation in Lebanon not owe more to the Lebanese protesting following the assassination of Hariri? I'm sure some opportune international pressure has helped speed things along, but in this instance I think people power was the trigger. Be interesting to see if that people power cascades through the region though. Assuming Syria withdraws and Lebanon doesn't descend into another civil war, what odds people in other countries thinking "hang on, they protested against their own Government and got a result, maybe we should too?". Not sure about Libya - surely they have been out in the cold for years and just decided to give in to international pressure. I don't think Gadaffi suddenly thought "oh no, the US has invaded Iraq, I'd best start behaving now". I'd imagine there was a hell of a lot going on behind the scenes to get Libya on side before Bush even knew where it was.

Can't say you're wrong, can't say you're right.
Just find it interesting that some previously intractable things have some how managed to get moving recently.
How much of that (if any) is down to Dubya and his robust stance will, I suspect, be the stuff of much debate in the future.
Don't get me wrong, I'm no simpleton when it comes to Bush, but my gut tells me that fear of the USA and their "who wants to be next?" attitude must have played some part in moving things along.

I'm prepared to let history be the judge.

Andy

[PatHeald]

andymadmak said:

is it just possible that there might have been something in Dubya's War on Terror policy after all?

The only things in Mr Bush's policy were hypocricy, lies, double standards and an amusing inability to communicate in English.

He is an intellectual dwarf and is not fit to run a tombola.

Cheers

Pat

[Thom]

He has been more on the wrong side than on the right side since 9/11 however I'm happy to have a bully like him around a good time with "muslim" countries. It's pretty ironic to be aware that only a retard like Bush and his team can understandably give all these muslim retards a good kick in the arse because from the "sane" politicians it would appear terribly politically incorrect. Thank you for being what you are, Mr Bush. Don't change anything, at least for now.

[raf dug]

andymadmak said:

Sorry if this has been done before, but just looking at the world today..... Libya gives up WMD Israel and Palestine actually talking and maintaining peace despite lunatic suicide bombers Saudi Arabia allowing female voting Syria to quite Lebanon Iran cooperating Elections in Iraq I know it's not as simple as this, and that those statements can be contested, but is it just possible that there might have been something in Dubya's War on Terror policy after all?

Just like I said before the U.S election, he was bound to win because of what he has done for the world in the war against terrorrism.Hate to say I told them so but "I told them so".

[andymadmak]

Thom said:

He has been more on the wrong side than on the right side since 9/11 however I'm happy to have a bully like him around a good time with "muslim" countries. It's pretty ironic to be aware that only a retard like Bush and his team can understandably give all these muslim retards a good kick in the arse because from the "sane" politicians it would appear terribly politically incorrect. Thank you for being what you are, Mr Bush. Don't change anything, at least for now.

Thom, that's pretty harsh stuff. I hope it's an error in typing. You don't really mean all Muslims are retards do you? If you do, then that kind of remark is really very offensive.
In my experience Muslims are mostly decent hard working folk. Lets try to avoid tarring them all with the brush of the extremists shall we?

Andy

[Thom]

andymadmak said:

Thom, that's pretty harsh stuff.

Well, I understand it's allowed to air such thoughts in the UK. In my humble knowledge it's possible to express the most undefendable ideas in the UK, in the same vein as the likes of abu amza have expressed their anti Western world stance some times ago.
Does this forum obey the same freedom/restriction of speech laws as Great Britain in general or should I shut the up about what I think about muslims ? Just asking.

>> Edited by Thom on Monday 7th March 20:58

[Deltafox]

Funny aint it? I used to think that the west was always so right in most things, including the "war on terror".
Now im not so sure.
I find myself curiously drawn to 968 and Thoms rather hostile view of it all.
Whats changed my view?
Well a little thing called morals.
Dare i say it, the yanks seem to have deserted theirs.
And i might add so have our government.

I watched a programme the other night that opened my eyes to whats happening, and i have to say, its not nice.
To think that a country that preaches "liberty" and "freedom" and sets itself up as an example to the world can take an active part in grabbing citizens off of the streets of this country and others; to then fly them by private jet to Syria and have them tortured by proxy is repellent.
And our government are complicit in this abuse.
The one guy was snatched and taken to Syria, systematically abused and tortured for 10 months, forced to confess to being "Al Queada" and then was released without charge.
And its happening time and time again.
The jet in question has been seen all over the world at both military and civilian airports by that sad breed called "plane spotters" (god bless em).
Andrew Gilligan chased down some info on it and its registered to a PO box just 100 yards from....Langley headquarters.
So, the big boys are in there and so are ours.
And all this in a supposed democracy and free and civilised country.
Makes you wonder just who is the enemy, dosent it?

[PatHeald]

Thom said:

should I shut the up about what I think about muslims?

Yep.

Cheers

Pat