Propane gas question
Discussion
I've asked various boatyards and nobody seems to know the answer, so I hope PH can help.
I have a boat with a Smev three-burner hob, grill and oven. The boat was supplied from new for this to run on butane. It's 4 years old and has only had light use. However it's never performed as well as other boat hobs/grills I've used. Grilling is particularly slow. This is it:
A reputable boatyard advised me to try propane, so I swapped blue for red and just needed a regulator. One's just arrived, and it is tiny (2.5" diameter), much smaller than the butane one, and says 37mbar 1.5kg/hr.
Some googling found that there's a larger version http://huddersfield-gas.co.uk/product/calor-gas-ap... which is 37mbar but 4kg/hr. The input end is the same but the other is different.
Just wondering if I should return the little one and get he bigger one. Does anyone have any experience of these? I need to power at least one gas ring and a grill at the same time.
I have a boat with a Smev three-burner hob, grill and oven. The boat was supplied from new for this to run on butane. It's 4 years old and has only had light use. However it's never performed as well as other boat hobs/grills I've used. Grilling is particularly slow. This is it:
A reputable boatyard advised me to try propane, so I swapped blue for red and just needed a regulator. One's just arrived, and it is tiny (2.5" diameter), much smaller than the butane one, and says 37mbar 1.5kg/hr.
Some googling found that there's a larger version http://huddersfield-gas.co.uk/product/calor-gas-ap... which is 37mbar but 4kg/hr. The input end is the same but the other is different.
Just wondering if I should return the little one and get he bigger one. Does anyone have any experience of these? I need to power at least one gas ring and a grill at the same time.
KelWedge said:
If it helps
Butane the standard regulator is 29 mbar 1000gm/hr
Propane the standard regulator is 37 mbar 1.5kg/hr
me thinks try it, it should work OK,
(We do sell bottled gas, regulator's etc at work, so its not all guesswork)
OK, so I should have 50% more of a gas that burns hotter. I was just concerned how much physically smaller the regulator was.Butane the standard regulator is 29 mbar 1000gm/hr
Propane the standard regulator is 37 mbar 1.5kg/hr
me thinks try it, it should work OK,
(We do sell bottled gas, regulator's etc at work, so its not all guesswork)
Let's see if it's that easy - maybe I can have juicy steak and crispy saute spuds after all!
Don't DIY this, find a local Gas Safe engineer who is LPG for boats approved. You will need a conversion kit for oven most likely.
ETA - the MIs state propane, so I'd be getting a strongly worded letter drafted to whoever sold it set up for butane.
ETA - the MIs state propane, so I'd be getting a strongly worded letter drafted to whoever sold it set up for butane.
Edited by 2lefthands on Thursday 4th August 20:18
KelWedge said:
If it helps
Butane the standard regulator is 29 mbar 1000gm/hr
Propane the standard regulator is 37 mbar 1.5kg/hr
Had another look at my butane regulator today and it's twice as big as the little propane one and says 3.2Kg/hr. So maybe I need the 4Kg/hr propane regulator after all?Butane the standard regulator is 29 mbar 1000gm/hr
Propane the standard regulator is 37 mbar 1.5kg/hr
When there's a ring and the grill going full blast I wonder what the limiting factor is?
duckwhistle said:
The limiting factor is the ability of the installation pipework to deliver the gas at the rate required by the appliance. Have your installation checked out by a reg installer.
By chance he's visiting the boat tomorrow! He thinks the pipework may have been poorly assembled and have some sealant/putty/clag in it. We will see... but he also said Smev aren't very good.Best and safest thing to do, wait and see what he finds, gas installations are more complex than is often understood. It is not unusual to find undersized installs anywhere usually caused by add on or changed appliances. Sometimes incompetence.
Some info for anyone interested. 1 - The appliance, this will have a governor set by the factory to the pressure required by the burners. The burners require an air supply, this is in the form of a primary supply at the injector via a suitably designed air gap, then a secondary supply at the point where the flame emerges from the burner and is provided by the surrounding atmosphere. This should produce a clean blue flame. A yellow flame means lack of air and a faulty/unsafe appliance.
2- The supply- This must be the correct gas at the correct pressure and volume as per the appliance spec plate.
3- The installation - pipework must be sized correctly to deliver the gas at the correct pressure and at the correct volume. The installer will consult the relevant tech info for flow rates for different types and sizes of pipe. To this he will apply a correction factor for length, each bend, elbow, or T piece. From this he will work out the correct pipe sizes required. You will now realise that as the pressure is controlled at each end of the installation, fiddling with the pressure or gas type will not correct a performance problem at the appliance.
4- Ventilation, This is worked out to provide a safe volume of air for the appliance burner air and where required cooling of the parts. There are many other considerations to be allowed for eg extractor fans in the space or those adjoining via doors being just one example of many. This is why your installer will be trained, tested, registered, insured and inspected.
After initial inspection looking for the usual suspects like crushed pipes etc, he will carry out a pressure and rating test to determine if any pressure loss is within limits. Then having established this, will trace the fault or advise the correct course of action. This is just a brief explanation hopefully enough to give a bit of insight . Hope it helps.
Some info for anyone interested. 1 - The appliance, this will have a governor set by the factory to the pressure required by the burners. The burners require an air supply, this is in the form of a primary supply at the injector via a suitably designed air gap, then a secondary supply at the point where the flame emerges from the burner and is provided by the surrounding atmosphere. This should produce a clean blue flame. A yellow flame means lack of air and a faulty/unsafe appliance.
2- The supply- This must be the correct gas at the correct pressure and volume as per the appliance spec plate.
3- The installation - pipework must be sized correctly to deliver the gas at the correct pressure and at the correct volume. The installer will consult the relevant tech info for flow rates for different types and sizes of pipe. To this he will apply a correction factor for length, each bend, elbow, or T piece. From this he will work out the correct pipe sizes required. You will now realise that as the pressure is controlled at each end of the installation, fiddling with the pressure or gas type will not correct a performance problem at the appliance.
4- Ventilation, This is worked out to provide a safe volume of air for the appliance burner air and where required cooling of the parts. There are many other considerations to be allowed for eg extractor fans in the space or those adjoining via doors being just one example of many. This is why your installer will be trained, tested, registered, insured and inspected.
After initial inspection looking for the usual suspects like crushed pipes etc, he will carry out a pressure and rating test to determine if any pressure loss is within limits. Then having established this, will trace the fault or advise the correct course of action. This is just a brief explanation hopefully enough to give a bit of insight . Hope it helps.
Thanks, interesting to know. FWIW the oven and hob were fitted from new by the factory when the boat was built in 2012 and are the standard appliances for that model - so (in theory) they should know how to fit them... There are no other gas appliances on the boat and the pipe run is 8-10' of copper pipe that looks like 10mm.
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