Close call - Who would have been at fault?

[caelite]

Hey folks

Looking for advice from the professionals on here as I am honestly not sure if I was in the right or not in this situation as I was within about 3cm of a moderate accident.

Basically I am driving along a town road at 30mph, it is a wide road with just over 2 car width size lanes. I am in my shogun which is a big brute and there is a little Aygo infront of me who indicates to turn right. Approaching the junction she moves to the right and begins to slow down for oncoming traffic, I let off the throttle but carry most of the 30mph speed whilst moving over to the left side of the lane, I am confident there is plenty of room with our current courses for me to slip past on her nearside. It is somewhat hard to explain so I made a simple diagram of my intended maneuver which I have performed a thousand times before under similar conditions and to my knowledge is perfectly legal on our roads:



With my car being the blue the Aygo being red.

However as I come to about 3-4 meters of her rear bumper, still carrying about 20-25mph with her being between 5-10mph she swings her car to the left like a bus or lorry driver would before turning to the right. With no room to slow down I had to swerve sharply onto the (luckly empty) pavement to evade her going into my onside. Honestly the only reason I was able to maintain control is because it was a low kerb and my big 70 profile tyres soaked up the bump.

However in foresight I honestly dont know if I was in the right if we where to come into contact, what she did was, in my eyes, retarded as there was absolutely no need for her to swing to the left before turning however come to think of it if it was a large vehicle or car with trailer swinging out like she did would be completely normal and I wouldnt of passed. The way I see it her moving to the right of the lane would be an invitation to be passed on her left. However in the eyes of the law/civil court would I be to blame if she where to go into my car? If so I might avoid passing like that in future (many people do).

Thanks
CAE

[giantdefy]

My opinion is you would have been totally to blame. She may well have had to swerve due to a pothole of some such and you were undertaking her. As a minimum I would have slowed down to enable me to avoid any such near accident.

[talksthetorque]

Yup, Woudl have been your fault. One lane, you were technically undertaking the car in front in a single lane.

The only way it could have not been your fault is if you forgot that there was a right turn lane and they swung back in to your lane.
Even then it might go 50/50.

[fastbikes76]

Not sure on the who's wrong or right side of things, but round here EVERY single old muppet does the same. Takes a wide swing like its a 40T HGV they turning. As such if the car in front indicates to turn I hang back slightly until they have completed whatever daft move they started doing.

[Bigends]

We have a turning like that I use most days. I now wait in the middle of the n/s lane to turn right in order to stop following traffic squeezing through on the inside where there is barely enough room - they can wait for s few seconds till I turn. The gutter is littered with bits of door mirror from unsuccessful inside passes

[swimd]

Blue car should have stopped.

[caelite]

talksthetorque said:

The only way it could have not been your fault is if you forgot that there was a right turn lane and they swung back in to your lane.
Even then it might go 50/50.

Nope, it was just a wide road with 1 marked lane going in each direction. There is a lot of them in my town, ive always seen moving onto the centre line like she did as an invitation to be pass on the left, about 50% of drivers here do it. I honestly had no idea of its legality as I understand it is an undertake but there are also provisions in the highway code that allow undertaking when passing slow or stationary traffic I believe.

[Beetnik]

My opinion is she would have been totally to blame. She may well have had to slow down due to a pothole or some such but she should maintain her line and, having indicated right should not then move to the left. You were OK to pass her on the left.

[HustleRussell]

The overtaking car is always to blame.

20-25mph is too fast as well, she could've hesitated to allow another car out of the side road or to avoid a developing hazard such as a motorcyclist riding on the centre line.

Be more patient.

[HustleRussell]

I'm actually surprised you have to ask, mounting the pavement is a surefire sign that your speed was inappropriate for the situation and we should all count our blessings that a family member or friend were not walking on that pavement.

[silentbrown]

talksthetorque said:

Yup, Woudl have been your fault. One lane, you were technically undertaking the car in front in a single lane.

If she was indicating right, then overtaking on the left is permitted by HC 163.

"Only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so". Both true in this case, from what's been said.

I'd have said it was 100% the Aygo's fault for failing to check mirrors before "changing direction or speed".

If you'd been travelling at 3 MPH, whose fault would it have been? If she'd move 3 metres left rather than a foot or so, whose fault then?

[Thermobaric]

Personally, I only undertake in that situation if the person waiting to turn right is stopped.

[wjb]

HustleRussell said:

Be more patient.

This.

[pim]

Agree with the majority of the post you would have got the blame.

One thing why some drivers turn like that I don't follow.You can understand a big lorry moving to the left first but not a poxy little car.I keep the same line when turning a corner or right without clipping anything.

[silentbrown]

HustleRussell said:

The overtaking car is always to blame.

20-25mph is too fast as well, she could've hesitated to allow another car out of the side road or to avoid a developing hazard such as a motorcyclist riding on the centre line.

I call b*lls on the first part. Reverse the situation - you're overtaking (on the right) a car that's indicating left, and it swings RIGHT towards you. Obvious failure to check mirrors and "maintain a steady course when being overtaken".

But I agree with the speed bit. Best to have a few more tenths of thinking/reaction time whenever there's a junction involved.

[Toltec]

All I have to add is that after taking out a rear light cluster with my kneecap I learnt to be really careful about doing this.

[PorkInsider]

talksthetorque said:

Yup, Woudl have been your fault. One lane, you were technically undertaking the car in front in a single lane.

I technically doubt it since undertaking is only carried out by blokes in somber suits handling corpses.

Must be one if PH's most overused incorrect terms.

[giantdefy]

PorkInsider said:

I technically doubt it since undertaking is only carried out by blokes in somber suits handling corpses.

Undertaking can be carried out by anyone who undertakes to carry out a task.

eg They were undertaking the construction of the road.

So probably wearing dayglo not sombre suits

[sparkythecat]

HustleRussell said:

The overtaking car is always to blame.

20-25mph is too fast as well, she could've hesitated to allow another car out of the side road or to avoid a developing hazard such as a motorcyclist riding on the centre line.

Be more patient.

In fairness to the OP, he was driving a Shogun and could reasonably be expected to see any developing hazard over the roof of the tiny Aygo in front of him.

[PorkInsider]

giantdefy said:

PorkInsider said:

I technically doubt it since undertaking is only carried out by blokes in somber suits handling corpses.

Undertaking can be carried out by anyone who undertakes to carry out a task.

eg They were undertaking the construction of the road.

So probably wearing dayglo not sombre suits

Fair cop. You got me bang to rights, Guv.