Porsche 944 Lux
Discussion
I'm hankering after a car I loved as a youngster, the 944, but wanted to dip my toe in the water with not too much outlay, so under £5k.
This buys a '87 to '89 944 Lux with either the 2.5 or 2.7 engine, and decent history.
The thing Im concerned about is whether these are worthy sports car, since power is very low (I know power means very little, but an S2 or Turbo is significantly more powerful so obviously the car was designed to handle more) and whether they are something that can be enjoyed, in other words handling and usability giving lots of fun.
The engines seem quite robust, and the galvanized bodies dont seem to suffer from the rust a lot of cars from that era suffered from (I stand to be corrected...), so my thinking was it would be a nice way to get something classic, with the ability to make a drive a lot of fun.
Anyone have one that can advise?
This buys a '87 to '89 944 Lux with either the 2.5 or 2.7 engine, and decent history.
The thing Im concerned about is whether these are worthy sports car, since power is very low (I know power means very little, but an S2 or Turbo is significantly more powerful so obviously the car was designed to handle more) and whether they are something that can be enjoyed, in other words handling and usability giving lots of fun.
The engines seem quite robust, and the galvanized bodies dont seem to suffer from the rust a lot of cars from that era suffered from (I stand to be corrected...), so my thinking was it would be a nice way to get something classic, with the ability to make a drive a lot of fun.
Anyone have one that can advise?
The car was fundamentally designed for 125 hp, as the 924, and can still make decent progress on a nice windy road in that form, and with the factory's steady evolution of transmission, brakes and suspension copes well with anything up to around 350 hp. Anyone who's only driven in the era of computerised electronic stability control will have to learn how to manage without it. but if you remember the era when a 185/60 14 was a big tyre then you'll be fine. A normally aspirated 2.5 or 2.7 car in good health provides broadly similar straight performance to the universal standard 2.0 turbodiesel warm hatch or 320D type of thing. So is quite fast enough to get you down the straights between corners and if driven well will definitely keep up with that kind of modern car.
Don't assume that they don't rust, because galvanising doesn't last forever, it just delays the inevitable until it wears out. Remember the earliest are 34 years old now. They are a lot more rot resistant than most of their contemporaries, like Mantas and Capris and the various Japanese things of the era. But they can and do rust. Sills, wing lower edges, rear quarters, boot floors, battery trays, etc.
Some links for you
http://www.classicandperformancecar.com/porsche/94...
http://philipraby.co.uk/porsche-944-s2-buyers-guid...
http://www.jmgporsche.co.uk/index.php/menu-article...
Don't assume that they don't rust, because galvanising doesn't last forever, it just delays the inevitable until it wears out. Remember the earliest are 34 years old now. They are a lot more rot resistant than most of their contemporaries, like Mantas and Capris and the various Japanese things of the era. But they can and do rust. Sills, wing lower edges, rear quarters, boot floors, battery trays, etc.
Some links for you
http://www.classicandperformancecar.com/porsche/94...
http://philipraby.co.uk/porsche-944-s2-buyers-guid...
http://www.jmgporsche.co.uk/index.php/menu-article...
Edited by Lowtimer on Monday 8th August 14:58
Thanks for the info all, they do seem to be good value in this period of classic car value madness.
Im going to try and view a couple, unfortunately given their rarity they tend to be a fair drive away, but if I did buy one it'd give me a chance to get to know the car on the drive home I suppose.
Im going to try and view a couple, unfortunately given their rarity they tend to be a fair drive away, but if I did buy one it'd give me a chance to get to know the car on the drive home I suppose.
Strela said:
My preference on appearance alone would be a pre-facelift car - the wheels, the dash, the trim all have a great classic look. Terrific value too compared to the S2, turbo and cab, but hardly any left these days.
The pre-facelift interior is fine if you can fit into the somewhat eccentric driving position occasioned by the very low-set steering wheel. Suits some people fine, but not me: I can't really drive an early car for any distance.When I was looking for these a few years ago, my preference was strongly for the pre-facelift cars. The early cars were a good bit lighter (100kgs?) and felt more like sports cars. The later cars were more refined and felt more like GT cars.
The driving position of the early cars is quite eccentric but the interior is very characterful with it's deeply-cowled, yellow-lettered dials. The later cars are a bit 'Volkswagen' inside.
The driving position of the early cars is quite eccentric but the interior is very characterful with it's deeply-cowled, yellow-lettered dials. The later cars are a bit 'Volkswagen' inside.
Other differences between early and late cars which you might want to know about:
- if you value ABS then you will need a later car - and not every facelift car has ABS, the facelift was '86 model year, whereas the revised suspension geometry and ABS came with the '87 model year.
- personally I would always prefer one with power steering, especially since the power steering is so good, and a lot of early cars don't have it.
- the later cars have much bigger fuel tanks, which is nice if you like to go 500 miles between fill-ups, which is something I probably value more than most people. It may not do anything for you.
- early cars have a permanently inflated space-saver spare wheel & tyre, whereas later cars have a somewhat bizarre expanding space-saver spare wheel which I'm not sure I'd trust if it's 26 years old, as mine is, and which costs a lot to replace. I suspect this may have been a trade-off for the larger tank, but I'm not sure about that, it might have just been to free up more luggage space. If you want to see a collapsible spare in action (it's quite hilarious) look here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcVJ4Sp6Pao
- if you value air con, you're very unlikely to find it on a pre-facelift car, but quite a few post facelift cars have it.
- if you value ABS then you will need a later car - and not every facelift car has ABS, the facelift was '86 model year, whereas the revised suspension geometry and ABS came with the '87 model year.
- personally I would always prefer one with power steering, especially since the power steering is so good, and a lot of early cars don't have it.
- the later cars have much bigger fuel tanks, which is nice if you like to go 500 miles between fill-ups, which is something I probably value more than most people. It may not do anything for you.
- early cars have a permanently inflated space-saver spare wheel & tyre, whereas later cars have a somewhat bizarre expanding space-saver spare wheel which I'm not sure I'd trust if it's 26 years old, as mine is, and which costs a lot to replace. I suspect this may have been a trade-off for the larger tank, but I'm not sure about that, it might have just been to free up more luggage space. If you want to see a collapsible spare in action (it's quite hilarious) look here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcVJ4Sp6Pao
- if you value air con, you're very unlikely to find it on a pre-facelift car, but quite a few post facelift cars have it.
Edited by Lowtimer on Wednesday 10th August 13:59
It's all about condition and little else.
My 5'11" frame fitted well into my pre facelift 944, and I loved the driving position and conical dial covers etc.
They should drive beautifully - not necessarily an out and out sports car, but a well weighted steering (PAS was an option which most cars have) and a positive, if longish throw gearbox.
Great to thread through bends, especially for some reason with the lights raised!
Super early '81 stuff must be collectable soon, and avoid autos, as it adds nothing to the mix and saps power and pleasure.
My 5'11" frame fitted well into my pre facelift 944, and I loved the driving position and conical dial covers etc.
They should drive beautifully - not necessarily an out and out sports car, but a well weighted steering (PAS was an option which most cars have) and a positive, if longish throw gearbox.
Great to thread through bends, especially for some reason with the lights raised!
Super early '81 stuff must be collectable soon, and avoid autos, as it adds nothing to the mix and saps power and pleasure.
Great cars i have an early 85 square dash car so last of the early cars, love it, beautiful styling with the blown arches ,engine is good enough could do with a bit more power every now and then, look at the electrics as they can be problematic, sunroof leaks, cam belts done recently etc, find a good lower mileage car and you will love it
I've used my 1989 G-reg 2.7 for the last three years as a daily driver. It is THE classic car bargain of the decade ... they are pennies to buy compared to a lot of other things. Mine sits outside in rain, snow, sun.
My car has a few things the 2.7 came with - split rear seats etc. I love it and it gets driven when we go away anywhere to keep the miles off the wife's Mini.
Took it to Cornwall a few months ago - 750-miles round trip - ate it up with no problem. It has 147k on the clock but has full history and has been regularly maintained.
There are a lot out there so take your time choosing. Get the best car you can basically, with the best history. Once they begin to look tatty, like any older car, they can show signs of neglect pretty quickly.
parts are easy to come by - cars are always being broken. Clutches are a pain to change (and expensive) and get one that has had the belts and ideally water pump done recently - every 30k/four years.
They are GREAT cars to drive - mine loves the sweeping country roads and yet cruises at 80+ on any dual carriageway.
Edit: I've seen sunroof leaks mentioned. Mine has one last year which basically ruined the headlining. Traced to blocked drain holes (corner of the sunroof recess) and a poor inner seal on the sunroof - the original one. A new one was £60 on eBay but a local place had the right profile and depth and it was about £5.
They also sold me a 3m x 3m bit of dark blue vinyl in the exact colour to redo the headlining - so I've got that to do sometime ...
Pics in my profile btw ...
My car has a few things the 2.7 came with - split rear seats etc. I love it and it gets driven when we go away anywhere to keep the miles off the wife's Mini.
Took it to Cornwall a few months ago - 750-miles round trip - ate it up with no problem. It has 147k on the clock but has full history and has been regularly maintained.
There are a lot out there so take your time choosing. Get the best car you can basically, with the best history. Once they begin to look tatty, like any older car, they can show signs of neglect pretty quickly.
parts are easy to come by - cars are always being broken. Clutches are a pain to change (and expensive) and get one that has had the belts and ideally water pump done recently - every 30k/four years.
They are GREAT cars to drive - mine loves the sweeping country roads and yet cruises at 80+ on any dual carriageway.
Edit: I've seen sunroof leaks mentioned. Mine has one last year which basically ruined the headlining. Traced to blocked drain holes (corner of the sunroof recess) and a poor inner seal on the sunroof - the original one. A new one was £60 on eBay but a local place had the right profile and depth and it was about £5.
They also sold me a 3m x 3m bit of dark blue vinyl in the exact colour to redo the headlining - so I've got that to do sometime ...
Pics in my profile btw ...
Edited by uk66fastback on Friday 12th August 04:14
I think the 944 sunroof is a PITA to be honest, more trouble that it's worth, and wish my car was solid roof. Especially as I am getting the air con rebuilt next week.
If I ever need to replace the headlining out of mine for any reason I might remove all trace of the sunroof, weld in a panel, get rid of the high-up weight of the mechanism and the heavy stiffening frame, and gain valuable headroom.
If I ever need to replace the headlining out of mine for any reason I might remove all trace of the sunroof, weld in a panel, get rid of the high-up weight of the mechanism and the heavy stiffening frame, and gain valuable headroom.
TR4man said:
I've never understood why they don't cost more.
Well, they have just about doubled over the last five years... The scrappage scheme took a lot of them out, and most of the deadbeat owners who used to go "it's a two grand car, I'm not paying THAT to put a clutch in it / rebuild the suspension / etc" have been weeded out by now,Lowtimer said:
I think the 944 sunroof is a PITA to be honest, more trouble that it's worth, and wish my car was solid roof. Especially as I am getting the air con rebuilt next week.
If I ever need to replace the headlining out of mine for any reason I might remove all trace of the sunroof, weld in a panel, get rid of the high-up weight of the mechanism and the heavy stiffening frame, and gain valuable headroom.
If you've ever had it go wrong it's a pain. And when I had the leak last year I did regrease it all and broke a cog so had to replace both of them - again, not much money - and vowed to get it as new again which I've done.If I ever need to replace the headlining out of mine for any reason I might remove all trace of the sunroof, weld in a panel, get rid of the high-up weight of the mechanism and the heavy stiffening frame, and gain valuable headroom.
By modern standards the mechanism is old hat but if it works as it should it is fine. It only opens about three inches (if that) and it has to be VERY hot to even think of having it open.
Keep the drain holes clear of crud and you won't have a problem with it leaking ...
TR4man said:
I've never understood why they don't cost more.
Would make a great daily driver and would thrive in the use. If you do buy one OP, please don't make it a garage queen
They are good value but I ran one as a daily, it was pretty needy.Would make a great daily driver and would thrive in the use. If you do buy one OP, please don't make it a garage queen
Rust was the main problem, then some gremlins on the injection/fuel/ignition side I (and my specialist) couldn't sort out, random electric drain, dodgy central locking, wonky gear linkage, leaks.
Unless you get one where someone else has sorted it fully, it will probably be a lot less easy to own than a modern, have breakdown cover !
I would have another, but probably an early coupe, I think the 16 valve engines are nice but a lot more potential problems, and much more expensive to replace.
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