How can I find people to work for me

[bernhund]

I've run a bathroom refurbishment company for about 20 years now. I started off on my own & soon got enough work to need more than one team. So I took on a friend & his sister's boyfriend. Eventually I split them & gave them both an assistant. Meaning I had 3 teams of 2 bathroom fitters. Everyone self employed & happy.
Number 1 installer has now had to throw in the towel due to knackered knees! Which has left me in need of a replacement for him. Can I find anyone interested? No!
I put an ad for a local person with Reed. It cost me £200 & they found 6 people. None of them knew anything about bathrooms & one of them even lived in Anglesey. I'm in Sevenoaks, Kent!
I've tried other avenues too, but it appears that young people in particular are just not interested & those who are value their hourly rate way higher than their worth AND at the same time, can't even hold a screwdriver properly!
Where & how do I find people these days?

[AyBee]

What do you mean by "value their hourly rate"?

[boyse7en]

AyBee said:

What do you mean by "value their hourly rate"?

I think he means they want to earn more than he wants to pay

[Vaud]

Try the local college - if they do plumbing, etc. See if you can talk to the tutor and see who the brightest students are and offer to give the some work experience... treat it as an extended interview?

[bernhund]

boyse7en said:

AyBee said:

What do you mean by "value their hourly rate"?

I think he means they want to earn more than he wants to pay

Lol! Not far off. I tried a guy out who had been on a tiling course & wanted in excess of £100 per day. On day one he laid 3 floor tiles!

[Frimley111R]

Try Indeed. its is FOC I think and I have used that in the past. However, I am also on a FB page for local jobs and there are loads of people on that looking for work that could fit your requirements (Well, I think!). Have look here:

https://www.facebook.com/search/pages/?q=jobs%20in...

[Monkeylegend]

bernhund said:

Lol! Not far off. I tried a guy out who had been on a tiling course & wanted in excess of £100 per day. On day one he laid 3 floor tiles!

£100 a day is quite low for a self employed skilled tradesman.

By the time they have paid out for travelling, insurance, tax and NI, possibly pay into a pension, no holiday or sickness pay, it doesn't leave them on much more than the basic wage.

Most in my part of the world are charging upwards of £200 per day.

[Vaud]

Monkeylegend said:

£100 a day is quite low for a self employed skilled tradesman.

By the time they have paid out for travelling, insurance, tax and NI, possibly pay into a pension, no holiday or sickness pay, it doesn't leave them on much more than the basic wage.

Most in my part of the world are charging upwards of £200 per day.

I think the point is that the work output of 3 tiles does not correspond to £100?

[Monkeylegend]

Vaud said:

Monkeylegend said:

£100 a day is quite low for a self employed skilled tradesman.

By the time they have paid out for travelling, insurance, tax and NI, possibly pay into a pension, no holiday or sickness pay, it doesn't leave them on much more than the basic wage.

Most in my part of the world are charging upwards of £200 per day.

I think the point is that the work output of 3 tiles does not correspond to £100?

Not saying it does, but to expect to get a skilled tradesman for £100 per day is a bit optimistic.

Guy could have had a lot of prep work for all we know.

Pay peanuts...................

[singlecoil]

If the fitters are self employed surely they should be quoting you for each job, then it's up to them how quickly they work. Faster they work, the more money they make. Or are they really employees?

[POORCARDEALER]

Friend runs a brick laying firm, hes having the same problem, the money been demanded is crazy and they only want to do the really easy work, nothing complex

[bernhund]

Monkeylegend said:

Vaud said:

Monkeylegend said:

£100 a day is quite low for a self employed skilled tradesman.

By the time they have paid out for travelling, insurance, tax and NI, possibly pay into a pension, no holiday or sickness pay, it doesn't leave them on much more than the basic wage.

Most in my part of the world are charging upwards of £200 per day.

I think the point is that the work output of 3 tiles does not correspond to £100?

Not saying it does, but to expect to get a skilled tradesman for £100 per day is a bit optimistic.

Guy could have had a lot of prep work for all we know.

Pay peanuts...................

You've completely misinterpreted what I had written. I merely used that instance as an example of someone not knowing their worth.. That particular guy was being tried out as a fitters mate, not the main fitter. But he still wanted more than £500 per week and was useless.

I pay my fitters £30-35k annually, they are self employed and don't have to do anything whatsoever to find work. I give it to them on a plate. If they complete early, they've earned more money. They also get the chance to make a profit from materials. So let's not follow the usual PH bullst and go off at a tangent. I asked how to find people to work for me, not for a critique of my business!

[Monkeylegend]

bernhund said:

Monkeylegend said:

Vaud said:

Monkeylegend said:

£100 a day is quite low for a self employed skilled tradesman.

By the time they have paid out for travelling, insurance, tax and NI, possibly pay into a pension, no holiday or sickness pay, it doesn't leave them on much more than the basic wage.

Most in my part of the world are charging upwards of £200 per day.

I think the point is that the work output of 3 tiles does not correspond to £100?

Not saying it does, but to expect to get a skilled tradesman for £100 per day is a bit optimistic.

Guy could have had a lot of prep work for all we know.

Pay peanuts...................

You've completely misinterpreted what I had written. I merely used that instance as an example of someone not knowing their worth.. That particular guy was being tried out as a fitters mate, not the main fitter. But he still wanted more than £500 per week and was useless.

I pay my fitters £30-35k annually, they are self employed and don't have to do anything whatsoever to find work. I give it to them on a plate. If they complete early, they've earned more money. They also get the chance to make a profit from materials. So let's not follow the usual PH bullst and go off at a tangent. I asked how to find people to work for me, not for a critique of my business!

Hit a nerve there

Hardly a critique for your business.

Most of the good tradesman will already be fully booked, if not they probably not that good as you have found out.

Pay them a bit more than £100 per day. £30-35k annually is not much for a skilled tradesman, most can earn a lot more than that if they are self employed. The market will dictate that.

Out of interest how do they earn more money if they finish early, do you operate a bonus type system, or is it same pay for fewer hours?

[bernhund]

Frimley111R said:

Try Indeed. its is FOC I think and I have used that in the past. However, I am also on a FB page for local jobs and there are loads of people on that looking for work that could fit your requirements (Well, I think!). Have look here:

https://www.facebook.com/search/pages/?q=jobs%20in...

This is interesting, thank you. I didn't know Facebook had such a page! I'll look it up tomorrow and find out what it's all about.
I also like the idea of contacting a college. I could offer someone a good start to their working life.

[bernhund]

Monkeylegend said:

bernhund said:

Monkeylegend said:

Vaud said:

Monkeylegend said:

£100 a day is quite low for a self employed skilled tradesman.

By the time they have paid out for travelling, insurance, tax and NI, possibly pay into a pension, no holiday or sickness pay, it doesn't leave them on much more than the basic wage.

Most in my part of the world are charging upwards of £200 per day.

I think the point is that the work output of 3 tiles does not correspond to £100?

Not saying it does, but to expect to get a skilled tradesman for £100 per day is a bit optimistic.

Guy could have had a lot of prep work for all we know.

Pay peanuts...................

You've completely misinterpreted what I had written. I merely used that instance as an example of someone not knowing their worth.. That particular guy was being tried out as a fitters mate, not the main fitter. But he still wanted more than £500 per week and was useless.

I pay my fitters £30-35k annually, they are self employed and don't have to do anything whatsoever to find work. I give it to them on a plate. If they complete early, they've earned more money. They also get the chance to make a profit from materials. So let's not follow the usual PH bullst and go off at a tangent. I asked how to find people to work for me, not for a critique of my business!

Hit a nerve there

Hardly a critique for your business.

Most of the good tradesman will already be fully booked, if not they probably not that good as you have found out.

Pay them a bit more than £100 per day. £30-35k annually is not much for a skilled tradesman, most can earn a lot more than that if they are self employed. The market will dictate that.

Out of interest how do they earn more money if they finish early, do you operate a bonus type system, or is it same pay for fewer hours?

You still seem to be hanging onto the £100 per day thing. I just said in my last posting that it was a 'fitters mate' I was looking for in that instance i.e a gofor. Someone that will learn the ropes and eventually end up on £35k. You'd be mad to pay a gofor more than £500 per week!

This isn't about the way I run a business. I'm looking for places to find potential fitters, who want the convenience of being self employed but without the hassle. i.e spending most evenings and weekend quoting and doing paperwork for potentially nothing.
£35k is good money. I base my price on the time and materials I expect the job to take. If they complete early, their day rate on that job has increased.
So back to the original post: Can anyone suggest places to find these potential workers?

[m3jappa]

What you've got now is people who don't want to work for someone else, I've really seen this over the last few years. It seems as soon as someone's done a few weeks work in a certain trade they are now an expert and start up on their own.
Usually they totally forget or not realise that they need the right equipment, they need to drive about quoting jobs, sending quotes, replacing broken tools, no holiday or sick etc etc.

There's a real stigma now about working for someone else, they all want to be the boss. Want so onus the big man bragging down the pub.

Ironically they are all out there, working for quite a bit less than they would get if they just got a job for someone else.

They fall into the trap of thinking, I'll do it cheap to get a good rep and then put my prices up, except they can't because they don't have the experience or money in the job to do a good one, so they get stuck, working for fk all. Or they quote what they think is good money but have forgotton to include various materials in their quote so end up doing badly.

Trust me I've seen this time and time again.

Annoys me as I'd like to expand but finding people that don't want comic money for doing fk all is actually very hard now. The actual good ones are doing it themselves and doing ok and in the same position as you and I.

[MarshPhantom]

Ad on a notice board at somewhere like Howdens?

[bernhund]

m3jappa said:

What you've got now is people who don't want to work for someone else, I've really seen this over the last few years. It seems as soon as someone's done a few weeks work in a certain trade they are now an expert and start up on their own.
Usually they totally forget or not realise that they need the right equipment, they need to drive about quoting jobs, sending quotes, replacing broken tools, no holiday or sick etc etc.

There's a real stigma now about working for someone else, they all want to be the boss. Want so onus the big man bragging down the pub.

Ironically they are all out there, working for quite a bit less than they would get if they just got a job for someone else.

They fall into the trap of thinking, I'll do it cheap to get a good rep and then put my prices up, except they can't because they don't have the experience or money in the job to do a good one, so they get stuck, working for fk all. Or they quote what they think is good money but have forgotton to include various materials in their quote so end up doing badly.

Trust me I've seen this time and time again.

Annoys me as I'd like to expand but finding people that don't want comic money for doing fk all is actually very hard now. The actual good ones are doing it themselves and doing ok and in the same position as you and I.

You've hit the nail on the head! I'm on the laptop at 6:30am and back on it after a day on the tools. I will usually see 3 or 4 potential bathrooms too every week 'after hours' or on the weekend. This is real self employment. Not a half hearted attempt at being the big boss.
I know really good people will be doing it for themselves and successfully. I know I will get less than 100% from people who work for me and that's why it's my job to keep on top of them. This is the way it's been for me for 20 years. We have a great reputation and the boys are honest and reliable and very good at their job. But if I didn't keep on top, they would exploit my good nature.
I also have to find a price that pays everyone well AND keeps the work flowing.
The fella who has just left after all these years, had on occasion wanted a lot more money. He regularly pushed and my response was that I could price jobs for him and continue pricing for the others at my usual rate. If his jobs didn't land, he'd be at home with his thumb up his arse. My lads have wives, kids and mortgages. They WANT to go home at the end of the day, they WANT weekends free. That's not real self employment in my business!

So I'm looking for a rare creature. Someone honest, reliable and keen to work hard. But this person needs to be self employed and wanting to behave as though employed in that they don't need to find the work or do lots of paperwork.

[Monkeylegend]

bernhund said:

Monkeylegend said:

bernhund said:

Monkeylegend said:

Vaud said:

Monkeylegend said:

£100 a day is quite low for a self employed skilled tradesman.

By the time they have paid out for travelling, insurance, tax and NI, possibly pay into a pension, no holiday or sickness pay, it doesn't leave them on much more than the basic wage.

Most in my part of the world are charging upwards of £200 per day.

I think the point is that the work output of 3 tiles does not correspond to £100?

Not saying it does, but to expect to get a skilled tradesman for £100 per day is a bit optimistic.

Guy could have had a lot of prep work for all we know.

Pay peanuts...................

You've completely misinterpreted what I had written. I merely used that instance as an example of someone not knowing their worth.. That particular guy was being tried out as a fitters mate, not the main fitter. But he still wanted more than £500 per week and was useless.

I pay my fitters £30-35k annually, they are self employed and don't have to do anything whatsoever to find work. I give it to them on a plate. If they complete early, they've earned more money. They also get the chance to make a profit from materials. So let's not follow the usual PH bullst and go off at a tangent. I asked how to find people to work for me, not for a critique of my business!

Hit a nerve there

Hardly a critique for your business.

Most of the good tradesman will already be fully booked, if not they probably not that good as you have found out.

Pay them a bit more than £100 per day. £30-35k annually is not much for a skilled tradesman, most can earn a lot more than that if they are self employed. The market will dictate that.

Out of interest how do they earn more money if they finish early, do you operate a bonus type system, or is it same pay for fewer hours?

You still seem to be hanging onto the £100 per day thing. I just said in my last posting that it was a 'fitters mate' I was looking for in that instance i.e a gofor. Someone that will learn the ropes and eventually end up on £35k. You'd be mad to pay a gofor more than £500 per week!

This isn't about the way I run a business. I'm looking for places to find potential fitters, who want the convenience of being self employed but without the hassle. i.e spending most evenings and weekend quoting and doing paperwork for potentially nothing.
£35k is good money. I base my price on the time and materials I expect the job to take. If they complete early, their day rate on that job has increased.
So back to the original post: Can anyone suggest places to find these potential workers?

Are you in a position to take on an apprentice and train them in the way you want?

[768]

bernhund said:

So I'm looking for a rare creature. Someone honest, reliable and keen to work hard. But this person needs to be self employed and wanting to behave as though employed in that they don't need to find the work or do lots of paperwork.

I bet.

And who'll do it for less than £100/day, not that rare a creature otherwise.