Couple of oil seal questions

[caduceus]

On a Chimaera 4.5, is the oil seal in the rear crank main held in by the fly wheel? I put in the crankshaft yesterday with the seal popped on first. But as it sits, I could just pop it out again if I wanted. The engine is on a stand at the mo, so I can't bolt anything on the flywheel side yet. I just want to put my mind at rest before I carry on

Also, is the timing cover oil seal pressed in or tapped in with a mallet and appropriately sized socket? Not dry obviously. Rtv silicone or oil?
Sorry for the numpty questions but there is very little on the web with reference to rebuilding a Rover V8.

Thanks in advance
Cad

[paintman]

This from the internet. LR factory manual for overhaul of 3.5,3.9 & 4.2 V8. I don't know whether your engine would be any different.
http://www.landroverresource.com/35_39_42_V8_overh...
Page 48 shows fitting of crankshaft oil seal.
Having done this on my own RRC - 3.5EFi engine - the mating surfaces of the outer part of the seal & the area it's in must be absolutely clean and bone dry. Any lubricant is likely to help the seal unseat itself. Once the seal was in I tightened the bolts to the correct torque & ran a small bead of RTV round the outer edge of the seal. I've never fitted one by just knocking it in so don't know if that would work.

[Steve_D]

Rear seal can be fitted after the crank is in but, as said, clean and dry. They are known to pop out if any form of lube or sealant is used.

Front seal does not seem to be as critical but all the same I fitted mine dry yesterday. Just tap it in making sure it stays square as it goes in. I find using a socket as a drift just makes it more difficult to see if it is going in true. So just gently tapping around the rim works fine.

Steve

[FordPrefect56]

Grrr. This is all engine 101 stuff. If a seal is being fitted to a split joint like a rear main bearing cap then just put it in dry, nip the bolts, push the seal back fully against the back edge and tighten up. If a seal is being fitted to a fully circular recess then lubricate the o/d with oil to reduce fitting forces and prevent the seal rubber tearing. It's much easier on a press which keeps the seal perpendicular to the hole but tapping it in evenly is fine. Oil on the seal does NOT make it more prone to coming out. There are no forces acting on the seal in that direction which could ever make it come out. In time the oil will dry out and bake off and glue it in anyway. In 40 years of building race engines I've never seen a properly fitted seal come out. In fact getting the buggers out after a few years can take a serious amount of smacking with a big screwdriver. With any press-in fitment make sure there are no burrs on the edges of the recess and lightly smooth off any sharp edges with a fine file and emery.

Pumaracing.

[227bhp]

caduceus said:

Sorry for the numpty questions but there is very little on the web with reference to rebuilding a Rover V8.

There is a massive choice of books you should read before building an engine, many specific to the Rover V8:


https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=se...

How anyone would attempt something like that with doing any research is beyond me.

[caduceus]

paintman said:

the mating surfaces of the outer part of the seal & the area it's in must be absolutely clean and bone dry. Any lubricant is likely to help the seal unseat itself

Steve_D said:

Rear seal can be fitted after the crank is in but, as said, clean and dry. They are known to pop out if any form of lube or sealant is used.

FordPrefect56 said:

If a seal is being fitted to a fully circular recess then lubricate the o/d with oil to reduce fitting forces and prevent the seal rubber tearing. Oil on the seal does NOT make it more prone to coming out. There are no forces acting on the seal in that direction which could ever make it come out. In time the oil will dry out and bake off and glue it in anyway. In 40 years of building race engines I've never seen a properly fitted seal come out.
Pumaracing.

[FlowSpecialist]

The installation of oil seals is not a car specific thing. It's a very well studied general engineering practice.

http://www.skf.com/uk/products/seals/industrial-se...

Note the advice a little way down. "While the outside diameter of metal-cased seals can be lightly lubricated to ease installation, the outside diameter of rubber covered seals should always be lubricated."

As you've already been told, seals fitted into split housings can be fitted dry because there's no need to press them in. Rubber seals pressed into circular recesses should always be oiled to reduce fitting pressure and prevent the seal tearing.

[stevieturbo]

FordPrefect56 said:

Grrr. This is all engine 101 stuff. If a seal is being fitted to a split joint like a rear main bearing cap then just put it in dry, nip the bolts, push the seal back fully against the back edge and tighten up. If a seal is being fitted to a fully circular recess then lubricate the o/d with oil to reduce fitting forces and prevent the seal rubber tearing. It's much easier on a press which keeps the seal perpendicular to the hole but tapping it in evenly is fine. Oil on the seal does NOT make it more prone to coming out. There are no forces acting on the seal in that direction which could ever make it come out. In time the oil will dry out and bake off and glue it in anyway. In 40 years of building race engines I've never seen a properly fitted seal come out. In fact getting the buggers out after a few years can take a serious amount of smacking with a big screwdriver. With any press-in fitment make sure there are no burrs on the edges of the recess and lightly smooth off any sharp edges with a fine file and emery.

Pumaracing.

It's a total disgrace that when an experienced and helpful member like the above, yet again gets banned because the moderators have lost the plot. Or one moderator in particular who really seems to be clueless and have some sort of vendetta against helpful members.

Really WTF is going on with PH ?

[99hjhm]

Agreed.

When is the book coming out Puma?

[FlowSpecialist]

99hjhm said:

Agreed.

When is the book coming out Puma?

I reckon it might be a long wait. Other than helping people in here (well until the dick who runs it now blocks each new account) I'm done with bloody engines. Been retired for 8 years now.

[Pupp]

Yep one less reason to look in - grumpy and opinionated but knowledgeable and generous in sharing that knowledge (if ill-suffering of fools). Entertaining, irritating, and educative by turns; always a poster to watch out for.

Good work HM; one step closer to the anodyne mediocrity that is clearly craved - perhaps you can pop another advert in the vacant bandwidth?

[FlowSpecialist]

"A ban is for life, not just until a previously banned member tries to return."

Petty immature tossers. Look I can set up new accounts until the cows come home but the point is this. If no one knows who I am they don't know how much merit to give the opinion which has been amply demonstrated above by the OP not knowing which conflicting opinion to trust. So who are you hurting by this? The people who want advice is who. Delete this one too if you like. You can't stop people posting on a public forum. You just apparently have no regard for the quality of the advice being given and even less for the poor sods needing it and trying to plough through every Tom, Dick and Harry's opinions, most of which are wrong.

[NOTpumaracing]

Wot 'e said, lol.

[NOTpumaracing]

Actually I thought it was a dog that's for life - except in Korea of course where it's just until lunchtime.

[stevieturbo]

Surprised the muppets in charge havent threw all their toys out of the pram at this thread yet, although their moms have probably put them to bed early.

Given the content has turned to drivel though...perhaps they'll let it continue. They really dont seem to like anyone who might post technical content in this technical section.

[Little Pete]

I'm new to PH as a member but I've followed the writing of Pumaracing on here and on his old website for years. Most forums would love to have someone with his depth of knowledge and more importantly his ability and willingness to impart it. Can I ask why he was banned?

[paintman]

I've never fitted one to the RV8 by just knocking it in, but by following the LR method as in the link.
Can pr - or whoever he's currently posting as - confirm that it's OK to fit a replacement seal to a split housing without loosening the bolts & lubricating the outer edge of the seal or should it always be done by loosening the bolts first & fitted dry?

Edited by paintman on Thursday 1st September 00:51

[NOTpumaracing]

stevieturbo said:

Surprised the muppets in charge havent threw all their toys out of the pram at this thread yet, although their moms have probably put them to bed early.

ROFL. Got an image in my head now of all the little mods tucked up in bed with a thumb in their mouth dreaming happy thoughts about sunny meadows and butterflies and what mummy's going to make them for breakies. Boiled eggs and soldiers please mummy.

[stevieturbo]

Little Pete said:

I'm new to PH as a member but I've followed the writing of Pumaracing on here and on his old website for years. Most forums would love to have someone with his depth of knowledge and more importantly his ability and willingness to impart it. Can I ask why he was banned?

For calling a spade a spade.

And that spade was very deserved of being called a spade which makes it all the more ridiculous.

Spade translates as dhead.

[NOTpumaracing]

paintman said:

I've never fitted one to the RV8 by just knocking it in, but by following the LR method as in the link.
Can pr - or whoever he's currently posting as - confirm that it's OK to fit a replacement seal to a split housing without loosening the bolts & lubricating the outer edge of the seal or should it always be done by loosening the bolts first & fitted dry?

Edited by paintman on Thursday 1st September 00:51

You can treat a tightened split housing just the same as a normal circular one. Make sure there are no burrs and plenty of oil first. It's commonly done for crank seals if the engine is still in the car and can't easily be dismantled. At least that's what I think PR would say given that I am of course NOTpr.