Discussion
PH, I'm a little outside my comfort zone, but need advice. Apologies for the long post - it's all relevant background.
I have a 20 year old step-son. Nice lad, bit daft.
3 months ago he went to Italy for a week. He came back and was behaving weirdly, making odd comments, facebook posts and life decisions. He claimed his drink had been spiked with LSD.
In July we spent a week away, and he again became erratic, eventually quitting his job. Family (and we) were worried so we came back early to find he'd f
ked off to the lake district for the weekend with mates, despite knowing we were on our way.... He came back relatively normal talked work around and everything more or less back to normal.
Last week we again went away - coinciding with him having changed and started a new job. All seemed great until Friday night, when he said the job was not for him, and was in tears to his mum telling here he loved her. We worried and arranged for my parents to collect him. He admitted to my father that he had taken drugs. I'm told that he was all over the place, not taking conversation in, completely erratic etc.
Saturday morning he woke my father up, saying are you ready to take the dogs out - at 7am. He eventually took our dog, and it turned out walked the 7 miles home. He then rang my parents asking them to drop his bag back to him. He kept ringing them, asking them to meet at various places. At one point he asked to meet at Asda. When they rang him to see where he was he denied all knowledge, and did not know where Asda was (he does). At some point they must have found him at home as he ran off from them. They took the dog back with them.
Most of this happened without us knowing. We then get a call from my parents saying they are worried as he has disappeared. He eventually got in touch with them to say he was in Derby at the train station stuck. He had been speaking to his dad, and was trying to get to him in Bristol. I don't know for sure, but suspect he had been chucked off the train for not having a ticket.
He was equally erratic with his dad, who told him he was due to leave for the Ukraine later that day, and should not come. Despite that he rang at various points to say he was in Sheffield. Nottingham and Derby.
My parents, again went out to collect him. He rang them 3 times to see where they were. When they arrived at the Station there was no sign of him. My dad eventually found him on the platform. Step-lad looked very surprised to see him and asked why he was there! He was reluctant to travel with my parents and eventually got on the train. The station staff confirmed he had a ticket to Doncaster.
At some point that night he rang us from home.
On Sunday we spoke to him in the morning. We had to change our travel plans as the car broke down, but due to what was happening, we ditched it to the AA, and got back the fastest way we could. We arrived to find him gone from home. Initially we put this down to not wanting to face the music, but by 3PM yesterday, I was concerned.
A facebook post asking if anyone had heard from him, resulted in a call from his dad, telling me that he had turned up at his house that morning. Step-lad had admitted to his dad (over the phone as he is now in the Ukraine), and his dads mate who looks after the house that he was on drugs.
We spoke to step-lad who now has no money and set about getting him home. I was reluctant to give him cash, so arranged for my brother in-law to collect him, drop him to the station, and buy his train ticket, and put him on the train. I would them meet at Sheffield to avoid him having to change trains. Bank Holiday traffic did us in. They could not get there in time so sent a taxi. Step-lad sent taxi away on a wild goose chase.
At this point I stepped back, having done everything that I felt I could, and as he was safe at his dad's house he could deal with it.
He has persuaded his grandparents to buy him a ticket home today. He's apparently squared away not turning up to work today. Talking to him today he tell's me it was a blip and he's fine.
I've got several thoughts. The first is if it's drugs, I don't want that in my home. If it's not drugs then he's not 'fine'. He tells me he nearly committed suicide at the weekend.
He won't go to the Doctor, I don't know what the truth and lies are, he's in a new job where he can't take lots of time off to see a doctor.
I really do not know what to do for the best.
I'd really appreciate some advice - especially if there are professionals on here.
With an aside on this... Please if your trying to help, but not an expert could you be clear. I'll take all the help I can - but would really like to be able to distinguish.
Thanks
David
I have a 20 year old step-son. Nice lad, bit daft.
3 months ago he went to Italy for a week. He came back and was behaving weirdly, making odd comments, facebook posts and life decisions. He claimed his drink had been spiked with LSD.
In July we spent a week away, and he again became erratic, eventually quitting his job. Family (and we) were worried so we came back early to find he'd f
ked off to the lake district for the weekend with mates, despite knowing we were on our way.... He came back relatively normal talked work around and everything more or less back to normal.Last week we again went away - coinciding with him having changed and started a new job. All seemed great until Friday night, when he said the job was not for him, and was in tears to his mum telling here he loved her. We worried and arranged for my parents to collect him. He admitted to my father that he had taken drugs. I'm told that he was all over the place, not taking conversation in, completely erratic etc.
Saturday morning he woke my father up, saying are you ready to take the dogs out - at 7am. He eventually took our dog, and it turned out walked the 7 miles home. He then rang my parents asking them to drop his bag back to him. He kept ringing them, asking them to meet at various places. At one point he asked to meet at Asda. When they rang him to see where he was he denied all knowledge, and did not know where Asda was (he does). At some point they must have found him at home as he ran off from them. They took the dog back with them.
Most of this happened without us knowing. We then get a call from my parents saying they are worried as he has disappeared. He eventually got in touch with them to say he was in Derby at the train station stuck. He had been speaking to his dad, and was trying to get to him in Bristol. I don't know for sure, but suspect he had been chucked off the train for not having a ticket.
He was equally erratic with his dad, who told him he was due to leave for the Ukraine later that day, and should not come. Despite that he rang at various points to say he was in Sheffield. Nottingham and Derby.
My parents, again went out to collect him. He rang them 3 times to see where they were. When they arrived at the Station there was no sign of him. My dad eventually found him on the platform. Step-lad looked very surprised to see him and asked why he was there! He was reluctant to travel with my parents and eventually got on the train. The station staff confirmed he had a ticket to Doncaster.
At some point that night he rang us from home.
On Sunday we spoke to him in the morning. We had to change our travel plans as the car broke down, but due to what was happening, we ditched it to the AA, and got back the fastest way we could. We arrived to find him gone from home. Initially we put this down to not wanting to face the music, but by 3PM yesterday, I was concerned.
A facebook post asking if anyone had heard from him, resulted in a call from his dad, telling me that he had turned up at his house that morning. Step-lad had admitted to his dad (over the phone as he is now in the Ukraine), and his dads mate who looks after the house that he was on drugs.
We spoke to step-lad who now has no money and set about getting him home. I was reluctant to give him cash, so arranged for my brother in-law to collect him, drop him to the station, and buy his train ticket, and put him on the train. I would them meet at Sheffield to avoid him having to change trains. Bank Holiday traffic did us in. They could not get there in time so sent a taxi. Step-lad sent taxi away on a wild goose chase.
At this point I stepped back, having done everything that I felt I could, and as he was safe at his dad's house he could deal with it.
He has persuaded his grandparents to buy him a ticket home today. He's apparently squared away not turning up to work today. Talking to him today he tell's me it was a blip and he's fine.
I've got several thoughts. The first is if it's drugs, I don't want that in my home. If it's not drugs then he's not 'fine'. He tells me he nearly committed suicide at the weekend.
He won't go to the Doctor, I don't know what the truth and lies are, he's in a new job where he can't take lots of time off to see a doctor.
I really do not know what to do for the best.
I'd really appreciate some advice - especially if there are professionals on here.
With an aside on this... Please if your trying to help, but not an expert could you be clear. I'll take all the help I can - but would really like to be able to distinguish.
Thanks
David
hi,
- there are genuine safe guarding issues with this young man
- definitely ensure everyone communicates with each other what happened when they spoke/saw him at the different locations
- threats to commit suicide are both cries for help but also a measure how crushed a person feels at the point
- he has likely been leading up to this current state over a period of months, even years.
- depression could be a major key along with bi-polar tendencies coming to the fore as a result of how he feels
- counselling appears in order; Gestalt or CBT good places to start. They can be accessed privately thus avoiding current issues appearing on his medical report. Doctors will probably chuck pills at him which merely suppress the problem and don't understand and fix the problem
- there will be no instant fix though...time, patience and lots of love do heal the wounds though.
- there are genuine safe guarding issues with this young man
- definitely ensure everyone communicates with each other what happened when they spoke/saw him at the different locations
- threats to commit suicide are both cries for help but also a measure how crushed a person feels at the point
- he has likely been leading up to this current state over a period of months, even years.
- depression could be a major key along with bi-polar tendencies coming to the fore as a result of how he feels
- counselling appears in order; Gestalt or CBT good places to start. They can be accessed privately thus avoiding current issues appearing on his medical report. Doctors will probably chuck pills at him which merely suppress the problem and don't understand and fix the problem
- there will be no instant fix though...time, patience and lots of love do heal the wounds though.
Your post sounds heart breaking - I'm sorry to hear about your step sons problems. How are you and your wife doing?
This is a very difficult situation. In principle you are dealing with an adult who has the right to make poor decisions if they wish too. However if he is not "competent" that leads to more problems and a very stressful process to get help.
My advice would be this:
Consider speaking to a counsellor from Mind/Adfam (or similar support agency). They will speak from experience and have good advice for you.
If possible go to him and talk face to face. You'll be able to better establish how well or unwell he is. If you feel he is
having mental health problems your first step is to get him in contact with his GP. If he is a danger to himself or others
you may need more urgent help but his GP can give you advice on this.
Good luck and I suggest stick to your boundaries, addicts can be very manipulative so you need to stand firm about what you are willing to do.
This is a very difficult situation. In principle you are dealing with an adult who has the right to make poor decisions if they wish too. However if he is not "competent" that leads to more problems and a very stressful process to get help.
My advice would be this:
Consider speaking to a counsellor from Mind/Adfam (or similar support agency). They will speak from experience and have good advice for you.
If possible go to him and talk face to face. You'll be able to better establish how well or unwell he is. If you feel he is
having mental health problems your first step is to get him in contact with his GP. If he is a danger to himself or others
you may need more urgent help but his GP can give you advice on this.
Good luck and I suggest stick to your boundaries, addicts can be very manipulative so you need to stand firm about what you are willing to do.
Thanks to all.
How are we doing? I think we are both reeling slightly. My wife is upset, but comes from a non touchy-feely background where one looks out for oneself. She's struggling with the concept of mental health I think.
I'm just confused. I want to help the lad - he's as much my responsibility as my daughter - even though I'm not his real dad. But I also have my daughter to protect.
I'm certainly not sure that he is not taking drugs. He has in the past, but realised they were not working out well for him.
I will read all the other comments in detail (I have already, but taking it all and processing it first).
Being honest, my family are the touchy-feely how are you doing type. I'm rather not, but I suspect need to be at this moment.
How are we doing? I think we are both reeling slightly. My wife is upset, but comes from a non touchy-feely background where one looks out for oneself. She's struggling with the concept of mental health I think.
I'm just confused. I want to help the lad - he's as much my responsibility as my daughter - even though I'm not his real dad. But I also have my daughter to protect.
I'm certainly not sure that he is not taking drugs. He has in the past, but realised they were not working out well for him.
I will read all the other comments in detail (I have already, but taking it all and processing it first).
Being honest, my family are the touchy-feely how are you doing type. I'm rather not, but I suspect need to be at this moment.
surveyor said:
PH, I'm a little outside my comfort zone, but need advice. Apologies for the long post - it's all relevant background.
I have a 20 year old step-son. Nice lad, bit daft.
3 months ago he went to Italy for a week. He came back and was behaving weirdly, making odd comments, facebook posts and life decisions. He claimed his drink had been spiked with LSD.
In July we spent a week away, and he again became erratic, eventually quitting his job. Family (and we) were worried so we came back early to find he'd fked off to the lake district for the weekend with mates, despite knowing we were on our way.... He came back relatively normal talked work around and everything more or less back to normal.
Last week we again went away - coinciding with him having changed and started a new job. All seemed great until Friday night, when he said the job was not for him, and was in tears to his mum telling here he loved her. We worried and arranged for my parents to collect him. He admitted to my father that he had taken drugs. I'm told that he was all over the place, not taking conversation in, completely erratic etc.
Saturday morning he woke my father up, saying are you ready to take the dogs out - at 7am. He eventually took our dog, and it turned out walked the 7 miles home. He then rang my parents asking them to drop his bag back to him. He kept ringing them, asking them to meet at various places. At one point he asked to meet at Asda. When they rang him to see where he was he denied all knowledge, and did not know where Asda was (he does). At some point they must have found him at home as he ran off from them. They took the dog back with them.
Most of this happened without us knowing. We then get a call from my parents saying they are worried as he has disappeared. He eventually got in touch with them to say he was in Derby at the train station stuck. He had been speaking to his dad, and was trying to get to him in Bristol. I don't know for sure, but suspect he had been chucked off the train for not having a ticket.
He was equally erratic with his dad, who told him he was due to leave for the Ukraine later that day, and should not come. Despite that he rang at various points to say he was in Sheffield. Nottingham and Derby.
My parents, again went out to collect him. He rang them 3 times to see where they were. When they arrived at the Station there was no sign of him. My dad eventually found him on the platform. Step-lad looked very surprised to see him and asked why he was there! He was reluctant to travel with my parents and eventually got on the train. The station staff confirmed he had a ticket to Doncaster.
At some point that night he rang us from home.
On Sunday we spoke to him in the morning. We had to change our travel plans as the car broke down, but due to what was happening, we ditched it to the AA, and got back the fastest way we could. We arrived to find him gone from home. Initially we put this down to not wanting to face the music, but by 3PM yesterday, I was concerned.
A facebook post asking if anyone had heard from him, resulted in a call from his dad, telling me that he had turned up at his house that morning. Step-lad had admitted to his dad (over the phone as he is now in the Ukraine), and his dads mate who looks after the house that he was on drugs.
We spoke to step-lad who now has no money and set about getting him home. I was reluctant to give him cash, so arranged for my brother in-law to collect him, drop him to the station, and buy his train ticket, and put him on the train. I would them meet at Sheffield to avoid him having to change trains. Bank Holiday traffic did us in. They could not get there in time so sent a taxi. Step-lad sent taxi away on a wild goose chase.
At this point I stepped back, having done everything that I felt I could, and as he was safe at his dad's house he could deal with it.
He has persuaded his grandparents to buy him a ticket home today. He's apparently squared away not turning up to work today. Talking to him today he tell's me it was a blip and he's fine.
I've got several thoughts. The first is if it's drugs, I don't want that in my home. If it's not drugs then he's not 'fine'. He tells me he nearly committed suicide at the weekend.
He won't go to the Doctor, I don't know what the truth and lies are, he's in a new job where he can't take lots of time off to see a doctor.
I really do not know what to do for the best.
I'd really appreciate some advice - especially if there are professionals on here.
With an aside on this... Please if your trying to help, but not an expert could you be clear. I'll take all the help I can - but would really like to be able to distinguish.
Thanks
David
Hi David,I have a 20 year old step-son. Nice lad, bit daft.
3 months ago he went to Italy for a week. He came back and was behaving weirdly, making odd comments, facebook posts and life decisions. He claimed his drink had been spiked with LSD.
In July we spent a week away, and he again became erratic, eventually quitting his job. Family (and we) were worried so we came back early to find he'd f
ked off to the lake district for the weekend with mates, despite knowing we were on our way.... He came back relatively normal talked work around and everything more or less back to normal.Last week we again went away - coinciding with him having changed and started a new job. All seemed great until Friday night, when he said the job was not for him, and was in tears to his mum telling here he loved her. We worried and arranged for my parents to collect him. He admitted to my father that he had taken drugs. I'm told that he was all over the place, not taking conversation in, completely erratic etc.
Saturday morning he woke my father up, saying are you ready to take the dogs out - at 7am. He eventually took our dog, and it turned out walked the 7 miles home. He then rang my parents asking them to drop his bag back to him. He kept ringing them, asking them to meet at various places. At one point he asked to meet at Asda. When they rang him to see where he was he denied all knowledge, and did not know where Asda was (he does). At some point they must have found him at home as he ran off from them. They took the dog back with them.
Most of this happened without us knowing. We then get a call from my parents saying they are worried as he has disappeared. He eventually got in touch with them to say he was in Derby at the train station stuck. He had been speaking to his dad, and was trying to get to him in Bristol. I don't know for sure, but suspect he had been chucked off the train for not having a ticket.
He was equally erratic with his dad, who told him he was due to leave for the Ukraine later that day, and should not come. Despite that he rang at various points to say he was in Sheffield. Nottingham and Derby.
My parents, again went out to collect him. He rang them 3 times to see where they were. When they arrived at the Station there was no sign of him. My dad eventually found him on the platform. Step-lad looked very surprised to see him and asked why he was there! He was reluctant to travel with my parents and eventually got on the train. The station staff confirmed he had a ticket to Doncaster.
At some point that night he rang us from home.
On Sunday we spoke to him in the morning. We had to change our travel plans as the car broke down, but due to what was happening, we ditched it to the AA, and got back the fastest way we could. We arrived to find him gone from home. Initially we put this down to not wanting to face the music, but by 3PM yesterday, I was concerned.
A facebook post asking if anyone had heard from him, resulted in a call from his dad, telling me that he had turned up at his house that morning. Step-lad had admitted to his dad (over the phone as he is now in the Ukraine), and his dads mate who looks after the house that he was on drugs.
We spoke to step-lad who now has no money and set about getting him home. I was reluctant to give him cash, so arranged for my brother in-law to collect him, drop him to the station, and buy his train ticket, and put him on the train. I would them meet at Sheffield to avoid him having to change trains. Bank Holiday traffic did us in. They could not get there in time so sent a taxi. Step-lad sent taxi away on a wild goose chase.
At this point I stepped back, having done everything that I felt I could, and as he was safe at his dad's house he could deal with it.
He has persuaded his grandparents to buy him a ticket home today. He's apparently squared away not turning up to work today. Talking to him today he tell's me it was a blip and he's fine.
I've got several thoughts. The first is if it's drugs, I don't want that in my home. If it's not drugs then he's not 'fine'. He tells me he nearly committed suicide at the weekend.
He won't go to the Doctor, I don't know what the truth and lies are, he's in a new job where he can't take lots of time off to see a doctor.
I really do not know what to do for the best.
I'd really appreciate some advice - especially if there are professionals on here.
With an aside on this... Please if your trying to help, but not an expert could you be clear. I'll take all the help I can - but would really like to be able to distinguish.
Thanks
David
The most important thing to do is make sure he is not isolated and feels he has no where to turn too.. When people are struggling whether with drug or mental health issues they need love ones to be there for them. If he is talking about killing himself this is a cry for help. If someone is going to kill themselves they will not disclose this to anyone.
Obviously getting to the bottom of why he is acting this way is important. Keeping communication between the family and him is very important. As hard as it can be try not to lose your temper with him.
Mental health issues can lead to a number of habits to try and get rid of the thoughts. Many turn to drugs or drink to make the depressive thoughts disappear. If he has had drugs in the past this can lead to mental health issues down the line and again this could be the reason.
Monitor his behavior in the next few weeks. Make a diary also as this can help you remember things down the line if you need to sit down with him. Things like dates, where he was and who with if possible. This also might show a pattern to when he has these issues. If it is the weekend for example then it could be drug related.
Lastly has he had any trauma in the past? Lost a friend or relative he was close too? Bullied at school? Anything like this would be good to know.
If you need to talk just post another message and I will get back to you.
(edit: - sorry, just seen the bit about declaring status etc. i've been in psychiatry since the mid 80's and currently lead a Psychological Medicine Service in a medium-large district general hospital/trauma centre). i have always dealt with adults of working age, including learning disability and forensics.
there is a degree of disorganisation and impulsivity/eratic behaviours which is, at face value, concerning - especially given the acute onset and seemingly rapid development. some deterioration of cognitive function and loosening of associations which may or may not be related to psycho-active substance misuse but may also be a pointer to underlying psychopathology.
any known underlying organic pathologies?, any history of head injury? etc.
in most fields of medicine, diagnosis is often "by exclusion" which is frustrating for the patient, family, etc but it is what it is i'm afraid.
i'm not suggesting this as a diagnosis for one second but this kind of presentation is usually more suggestive of psychosis than it is of an affective (mood) disorder. Not BiPolar, nowhere near enough history to meet the diagnostic threshold. remember also that psychotic disorders present with both positive and negative symptoms which, can at times, seem like completely different illnesses/disorders but, when viewed in the whole, can be recognised as syndromal.
there is, of course, a significant difference between psychotic symptoms and a psychotic illness. an acute psychotic episode can be secondary to many things (infection, cerebral pathology, drugs/alcohol etc) and can sometimes be very brief indeed (my most recent "1st presentation psychosis" case lasted less than 12 hours before resolving spontaneously - steroid induced) but the temporal proximity of admitted drug use and possibly emerging symptoms of psychosis could lead one to wonder if this is an indication of a causal relationship, although open for debate (as are most things mental health related).
you mention that he's behaved oddly and been posted strange things on social media? examples, if possible, would be valuable as this could give some insight into his thought content. these are in the public domain so no issues around confidentiality i assume.
if i buy hallucinogenics i will expect to experience perceptual abnormalities; this is what i've paid for and would be looking for a refund if i didn't. likewise, i'd expect to be energetic and overactive with stimulants. most people will experience the desired effects of the drugs and then return to baseline until the next time. some don't and a "drug induced" episode develops into something requiring longer term treatment. however, there can be unwanted side effects and, for eg, stimulant cessation can lead to depressed mood and retarded behaviours.
a psychotic prodrome cannot be excluded and urgent, specialist, assessment is required. Perhaps not Gestalt as a front line treatment - as yet there is no diagnostic clarity and Gestalt can be extremely challenging (i know - part of my training required me to have my own therapy, which was Gestalt). there is good evidence for the efficacy of CBT in psychosis but concentrate on excluding what it may be and take it from there.
having said this, you also allude to some specific psycho-social stressors and another possibility would be an adjustment reaction, perhaps with a degree of dissociation.
ideally, before defaulting to psychiatry, get a full physical work up to exclude metabolic or haemodynamic instability, infective markers, CT head, drug screening (these things stay detectable for much longer than users imagine they do), etc. of course, the challenge will be gaining cooperation for all this, especially if he lacks insight.
although any ongoing drug use is a lifestyle choice, don't jump to the automatic conclusion that these behaviours are volitional. if he is experiencing ongoing/unwanted side effects and, especially if in altered consciousness, then his links with reality or rationality will have become very tenuous indeed.
what part of the country are in you in?, i could make a few inquiries and perhaps signpost - by PM if you'd prefer
regards
paul
there is a degree of disorganisation and impulsivity/eratic behaviours which is, at face value, concerning - especially given the acute onset and seemingly rapid development. some deterioration of cognitive function and loosening of associations which may or may not be related to psycho-active substance misuse but may also be a pointer to underlying psychopathology.
any known underlying organic pathologies?, any history of head injury? etc.
in most fields of medicine, diagnosis is often "by exclusion" which is frustrating for the patient, family, etc but it is what it is i'm afraid.
i'm not suggesting this as a diagnosis for one second but this kind of presentation is usually more suggestive of psychosis than it is of an affective (mood) disorder. Not BiPolar, nowhere near enough history to meet the diagnostic threshold. remember also that psychotic disorders present with both positive and negative symptoms which, can at times, seem like completely different illnesses/disorders but, when viewed in the whole, can be recognised as syndromal.
there is, of course, a significant difference between psychotic symptoms and a psychotic illness. an acute psychotic episode can be secondary to many things (infection, cerebral pathology, drugs/alcohol etc) and can sometimes be very brief indeed (my most recent "1st presentation psychosis" case lasted less than 12 hours before resolving spontaneously - steroid induced) but the temporal proximity of admitted drug use and possibly emerging symptoms of psychosis could lead one to wonder if this is an indication of a causal relationship, although open for debate (as are most things mental health related).
you mention that he's behaved oddly and been posted strange things on social media? examples, if possible, would be valuable as this could give some insight into his thought content. these are in the public domain so no issues around confidentiality i assume.
if i buy hallucinogenics i will expect to experience perceptual abnormalities; this is what i've paid for and would be looking for a refund if i didn't. likewise, i'd expect to be energetic and overactive with stimulants. most people will experience the desired effects of the drugs and then return to baseline until the next time. some don't and a "drug induced" episode develops into something requiring longer term treatment. however, there can be unwanted side effects and, for eg, stimulant cessation can lead to depressed mood and retarded behaviours.
a psychotic prodrome cannot be excluded and urgent, specialist, assessment is required. Perhaps not Gestalt as a front line treatment - as yet there is no diagnostic clarity and Gestalt can be extremely challenging (i know - part of my training required me to have my own therapy, which was Gestalt). there is good evidence for the efficacy of CBT in psychosis but concentrate on excluding what it may be and take it from there.
having said this, you also allude to some specific psycho-social stressors and another possibility would be an adjustment reaction, perhaps with a degree of dissociation.
ideally, before defaulting to psychiatry, get a full physical work up to exclude metabolic or haemodynamic instability, infective markers, CT head, drug screening (these things stay detectable for much longer than users imagine they do), etc. of course, the challenge will be gaining cooperation for all this, especially if he lacks insight.
although any ongoing drug use is a lifestyle choice, don't jump to the automatic conclusion that these behaviours are volitional. if he is experiencing ongoing/unwanted side effects and, especially if in altered consciousness, then his links with reality or rationality will have become very tenuous indeed.
what part of the country are in you in?, i could make a few inquiries and perhaps signpost - by PM if you'd prefer
regards
paul
Edited by paulmakin on Wednesday 31st August 00:24
I have a cousin who has schizophrenia. He has been known to dabble in various 'recreational' drugs not for fun at all but as an attempt to try and control the symptoms or how distressed they were making him feel - that's called self-medication. An awful lot of people with a big range of illnesses as well as stuff like anxiety related to Asperger's etc do this, it's about as far from 'taking lots of drugs cos they're an irresponsible knobber' as you can get. Sad as of course it pretty much never really helps!
I'm not going to throw possible diagnoses around either, I am not a doctor and the actual doc upthread said all the important stuff already, but it sounds like he's actually having periods of being really poorly and might not always be safe (whoever said that 'actually' suicidal people don't talk about it if they're going to do it, please don't tell people that, it's often true but not always and the exceptions are catastrophic) - you need to get medics involved, or someone does, and I don't think he sounds like he's in the right place to make that first step in his own.
All the very best to you and to steplad, it sounds damn scary.
I'm not going to throw possible diagnoses around either, I am not a doctor and the actual doc upthread said all the important stuff already, but it sounds like he's actually having periods of being really poorly and might not always be safe (whoever said that 'actually' suicidal people don't talk about it if they're going to do it, please don't tell people that, it's often true but not always and the exceptions are catastrophic) - you need to get medics involved, or someone does, and I don't think he sounds like he's in the right place to make that first step in his own.
All the very best to you and to steplad, it sounds damn scary.
All
Thanks for your replies.
I think someone asked whether he's had any loss in the past, and the answer is no. Having said that, he has been caught in fire fights between his parents. He eventually lived with his dad for a while, but had to come back to us after his dad split up with his wife. The timing was not perfect from the lads point of view, and that was the start of some of these problems I think.
Progress over the past couple of days?
Well we got him home. He seem's far more stable, and tells us he has problems when he is left on his own. He tells me that he thought we had been kidnapped in France and were never coming home because the car had broken down. We actually were back more or less at the same time as planned, even though the route changed to include trains and planes. He thought everyone was trying to kill him, and that the police were going to arrest him for being in the house.
Now he's feeling better he's telling me he is 'fine'. I've persuaded him to make an appointment to see a GP. I've told him his mum is going in with him - even if it's only to say what we know, and then leave them to it - if that's what he wants. Unfortunately that appointment is not for 2 weeks. I'm a bit pissed off about this, but I don't think I can do anything about it.
Oh yes - he lost the new job because he did not turn up on Tuesday. He had emailed them, but understandably they were not impressed that he dd not turn up for his first shift. If there was more than that, I do not know.
I'm out and about for a couple of days, which at this stage is a bit of a relief to be honest.
Thanks for your replies.
I think someone asked whether he's had any loss in the past, and the answer is no. Having said that, he has been caught in fire fights between his parents. He eventually lived with his dad for a while, but had to come back to us after his dad split up with his wife. The timing was not perfect from the lads point of view, and that was the start of some of these problems I think.
Progress over the past couple of days?
Well we got him home. He seem's far more stable, and tells us he has problems when he is left on his own. He tells me that he thought we had been kidnapped in France and were never coming home because the car had broken down. We actually were back more or less at the same time as planned, even though the route changed to include trains and planes. He thought everyone was trying to kill him, and that the police were going to arrest him for being in the house.
Now he's feeling better he's telling me he is 'fine'. I've persuaded him to make an appointment to see a GP. I've told him his mum is going in with him - even if it's only to say what we know, and then leave them to it - if that's what he wants. Unfortunately that appointment is not for 2 weeks. I'm a bit pissed off about this, but I don't think I can do anything about it.
Oh yes - he lost the new job because he did not turn up on Tuesday. He had emailed them, but understandably they were not impressed that he dd not turn up for his first shift. If there was more than that, I do not know.
I'm out and about for a couple of days, which at this stage is a bit of a relief to be honest.
Hi Surveyor.
Sorry to hear about everything you are all going through
I vaguely remember (I think) that you posted about the lad before. General exasperation about lack of motivation, lying round the house and doing nothing etc.
(I know a lot of young people do that habitually, before anyone points this out).
The behaviour you describe in your above post about delusional beliefs do fit with the positive symptoms of a possible mental health disorder, the symptoms you described in earlier posts could be the negative symptoms....
Keeping a diary of these episodes is good advice, if only for discussion after the event and recognition of triggers and symptoms of him becoming less well (if it is that and not substance misuse).
The advice from the poster above with the MH and psychology is very good btw
CTO
I would be speaking to the family GP and discussing your concerns. Also useful for referrals to local Community Mental Health Teams if it comes to that.
All the best to you and the family.
Sorry to hear about everything you are all going through
I vaguely remember (I think) that you posted about the lad before. General exasperation about lack of motivation, lying round the house and doing nothing etc.
(I know a lot of young people do that habitually, before anyone points this out).
The behaviour you describe in your above post about delusional beliefs do fit with the positive symptoms of a possible mental health disorder, the symptoms you described in earlier posts could be the negative symptoms....
Keeping a diary of these episodes is good advice, if only for discussion after the event and recognition of triggers and symptoms of him becoming less well (if it is that and not substance misuse).
The advice from the poster above with the MH and psychology is very good btw
CTO
I would be speaking to the family GP and discussing your concerns. Also useful for referrals to local Community Mental Health Teams if it comes to that.
All the best to you and the family.
I read the OP a few days back, and it's been on my mind quite a bit since, what a sad and difficult situation to be in.
At the time I couldn't really offer much but the folowing did cross my mind.
Bestwishes and hope you all pull through.
At the time I couldn't really offer much but the folowing did cross my mind.
jonamv8 said:
Finding out what drugs he is taking is important
Especially if he's buying 'unknowns' from head shops etc. 'Traditional ' pyscho actives weed/lsd/mushrooms etc are unusual to cause major issues under short term use, but the crap that is being flogged in head shops seem to be on another level.Bestwishes and hope you all pull through.
surveyor said:
All
Thanks for your replies.
I think someone asked whether he's had any loss in the past, and the answer is no. Having said that, he has been caught in fire fights between his parents. He eventually lived with his dad for a while, but had to come back to us after his dad split up with his wife. The timing was not perfect from the lads point of view, and that was the start of some of these problems I think.
Progress over the past couple of days?
Well we got him home. He seem's far more stable, and tells us he has problems when he is left on his own. He tells me that he thought we had been kidnapped in France and were never coming home because the car had broken down. We actually were back more or less at the same time as planned, even though the route changed to include trains and planes. He thought everyone was trying to kill him, and that the police were going to arrest him for being in the house.
Now he's feeling better he's telling me he is 'fine'. I've persuaded him to make an appointment to see a GP. I've told him his mum is going in with him - even if it's only to say what we know, and then leave them to it - if that's what he wants. Unfortunately that appointment is not for 2 weeks. I'm a bit pissed off about this, but I don't think I can do anything about it.
Oh yes - he lost the new job because he did not turn up on Tuesday. He had emailed them, but understandably they were not impressed that he dd not turn up for his first shift. If there was more than that, I do not know.
I'm out and about for a couple of days, which at this stage is a bit of a relief to be honest.
Parents splitting can have a huge effect on children even when you think they were not in the line of fire.Thanks for your replies.
I think someone asked whether he's had any loss in the past, and the answer is no. Having said that, he has been caught in fire fights between his parents. He eventually lived with his dad for a while, but had to come back to us after his dad split up with his wife. The timing was not perfect from the lads point of view, and that was the start of some of these problems I think.
Progress over the past couple of days?
Well we got him home. He seem's far more stable, and tells us he has problems when he is left on his own. He tells me that he thought we had been kidnapped in France and were never coming home because the car had broken down. We actually were back more or less at the same time as planned, even though the route changed to include trains and planes. He thought everyone was trying to kill him, and that the police were going to arrest him for being in the house.
Now he's feeling better he's telling me he is 'fine'. I've persuaded him to make an appointment to see a GP. I've told him his mum is going in with him - even if it's only to say what we know, and then leave them to it - if that's what he wants. Unfortunately that appointment is not for 2 weeks. I'm a bit pissed off about this, but I don't think I can do anything about it.
Oh yes - he lost the new job because he did not turn up on Tuesday. He had emailed them, but understandably they were not impressed that he dd not turn up for his first shift. If there was more than that, I do not know.
I'm out and about for a couple of days, which at this stage is a bit of a relief to be honest.
This can lead to having relationship issues themselves in the future and anger.
Whether this is the underlying issue or not it could be the cause.
I am delighted you have managed to get him to agree to attend the GP. This is excellent news. Your partner going is also great news.
It is a joke that he has to wait two weeks to see a Doctor. Phone back and ask for a emergency appointment which will either result in the doctor phoning you back or you will receive an appointment the next day. Put your foot down and don't take no for an answer.
Regarding work I think it is best he takes time off to focus on getting better. A job can come later. Obviously you don't want him having too much time on his hands when clearly he overthinks but if the doctor gives him Antidepressants that will help.
The only issue with antidepressants is they take time work. He may even feel worse to start with as it will take 6-8 weeks. This is why not being at work will help him during this time.
i suspect that the GP will follow the relevant guidelines which will conclude with the offer of psycho-social assessment. this may be through the local IAPT services (who will have produced their own eligibility/exclusion criteria, which may specifically veto "recent" psycho-active substance use) or referral to secondary, specialist MH assessment team
keep the GP appointment and get the investigations underway but, in most localities, it's entirely possible to short cut the process and self-refer for the psych consult.
the assessment function is organised in different ways by different providers but the local MH trust website will have details of how to access services. you could simultaneously refer to the MH service - costs nothing but time and you can always cancel if not required
paul
keep the GP appointment and get the investigations underway but, in most localities, it's entirely possible to short cut the process and self-refer for the psych consult.
the assessment function is organised in different ways by different providers but the local MH trust website will have details of how to access services. you could simultaneously refer to the MH service - costs nothing but time and you can always cancel if not required
paul
I think you probably need to find out what if anything he's taken/taking. But at the same time respect his rights
There's quite a good chance he hasnt taken anything, and that's (excuse isnt quite the right word) a reasoning on his part to explain whats going on to himself and everyone else. It could be something he's coming to terms with and doesnt know how to deal with it. It could also be that he's taken a fk load of acid and some people dont come back from that, they just cant.
I'd say you probably want to get him to a doctor for a blood test but you cant force him, has to be his decision
There's quite a good chance he hasnt taken anything, and that's (excuse isnt quite the right word) a reasoning on his part to explain whats going on to himself and everyone else. It could be something he's coming to terms with and doesnt know how to deal with it. It could also be that he's taken a f
k load of acid and some people dont come back from that, they just cant. I'd say you probably want to get him to a doctor for a blood test but you cant force him, has to be his decision
TheExcession said:
I read the OP a few days back, and it's been on my mind quite a bit since, what a sad and difficult situation to be in.
At the time I couldn't really offer much but the folowing did cross my mind.
Bestwishes and hope you all pull through.
This. Drugs are bad no doubt, but the new synthetics are off the scale and cheap so the youth are bashing them back hard. I worry for the youth and all this sAt the time I couldn't really offer much but the folowing did cross my mind.
jonamv8 said:
Finding out what drugs he is taking is important
Especially if he's buying 'unknowns' from head shops etc. 'Traditional ' pyscho actives weed/lsd/mushrooms etc are unusual to cause major issues under short term use, but the crap that is being flogged in head shops seem to be on another level.Bestwishes and hope you all pull through.
t. My mate has two daughters and we were talking about this the other dayandy- he has taken something - he said so. i assume he's a reliable historian in this respect, although probably under-reporting exactly what/when/how much he's used. that's par for the course.
whether the current presentation is "drug induced" or is something more sinister triggered by psycho-active substance misuse remains to be clarified. in either case, initial treatment is the same.
the majority of individuals who experience unwanted "psychiatric" side effects of drug use will achieve spontaneous resolution once they stop using (+/- 75%). the rest ? - got a bit of bad news for them.
it is encouraging that he has agreed to attend the GP appointment - guess he has a degree of insight into the suggestion that he's "not right" regardless of aetiology
paul
whether the current presentation is "drug induced" or is something more sinister triggered by psycho-active substance misuse remains to be clarified. in either case, initial treatment is the same.
the majority of individuals who experience unwanted "psychiatric" side effects of drug use will achieve spontaneous resolution once they stop using (+/- 75%). the rest ? - got a bit of bad news for them.
it is encouraging that he has agreed to attend the GP appointment - guess he has a degree of insight into the suggestion that he's "not right" regardless of aetiology
paul
Hi Are you in the Cumbria area? I'm not sure about the provision there, but where I am (Beds/Herts) there are several avenues to pursue.
GP appointment, who can then refer you onto the local Community Mental Health Team if required
Or, a SPA (Single Point Of Access) referral, which will be with a Duty Worker from your local CMHT. There will probably be local branches of mental health charities such as Mind, Turning Point and Rethink that can offer additional support to him in the interim, as referrals into local CMHT's are notoriously slow.
He may also need support from the local NHS Community Drug and Alcohol Team/or an independent substance misuse charity, such Resolve, Change, Grow Live,or Addaction.
Best of luck mate.
GP appointment, who can then refer you onto the local Community Mental Health Team if required
Or, a SPA (Single Point Of Access) referral, which will be with a Duty Worker from your local CMHT. There will probably be local branches of mental health charities such as Mind, Turning Point and Rethink that can offer additional support to him in the interim, as referrals into local CMHT's are notoriously slow.
He may also need support from the local NHS Community Drug and Alcohol Team/or an independent substance misuse charity, such Resolve, Change, Grow Live,or Addaction.
Best of luck mate.
Edited by jogger1976 on Friday 2nd September 23:22
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