CCJ for private parking fine.
Discussion
Hi
After a bit of advice. My auntie has had the above today. In a panic over it says judgement has been entered and she owes £260. She has recently moved house and says she didn't receive any paperwork other than the final judgement (which had gone to her NEW address ?!?).
I understand the fine relates to overstaying in an Aldi car park managed by Excel parking. She is happy to pay the fine but not all the additional costs as she says she never received anything as it had gone to her old address or she would have paid up.
Can she appeal for the judgement to be set aside? I presume Excel parking / BW Legal would have submitted letters to the court showing her old address so that would help?
I've been over on pepipoo but can't see a clear answer as to what to do if Judgement has been made?
Thanks.
After a bit of advice. My auntie has had the above today. In a panic over it says judgement has been entered and she owes £260. She has recently moved house and says she didn't receive any paperwork other than the final judgement (which had gone to her NEW address ?!?).
I understand the fine relates to overstaying in an Aldi car park managed by Excel parking. She is happy to pay the fine but not all the additional costs as she says she never received anything as it had gone to her old address or she would have paid up.
Can she appeal for the judgement to be set aside? I presume Excel parking / BW Legal would have submitted letters to the court showing her old address so that would help?
I've been over on pepipoo but can't see a clear answer as to what to do if Judgement has been made?
Thanks.
Vron said:
I presume Excel parking / BW Legal would have submitted letters to the court showing her old address so that would help?
They'd have sent paperwork to the registered keeper's address at the time of the alleged parking.When did she move, when did she change the V5C address, and did she have any postal redirection in place?
If judgment has definitely been entered then a set aside on the grounds of no claim papers having been received can be made. However read this first. You need to find out whether there is a reasonable prospect of winning at a new hearing based on the PPC having stuffed up. There could be a number of different reasons why that might have happened.
I'm assuming this is an ANPR monitored car park.
For a judgement to have been entered some considerable time must have elapsed since the parking event. Schedule 4 of PoFA 2012 mandates time scales within which which a PPC must request RK details from the DVLA as well as when an NtK can be issued. Then there is a further period of time to pay or give up the name of the driver if it was someone else. Only after all that can proceedings for recovery begin.
If the OP's auntie has only recently moved house it seems very odd that she has received no NtK, no LBA, no court papers, nothing prior to moving. Something isn't right here.
The V5C issue date is shown next to the Document Reference Number at the very bottom of the Vehicle Details page. Another thing worth checking is the DoR (Date of Request) when the PPC asked for her details from DVLA under KADOE.
Never trust a PPC to comply fully with the rules, especially one which is an IPC member. The one in question jumped ship from the BPA for a reason.
Btw, I thought Aldi contracted exclusively with PE not Excel. Or have they jumped ship too?
I'm assuming this is an ANPR monitored car park.
For a judgement to have been entered some considerable time must have elapsed since the parking event. Schedule 4 of PoFA 2012 mandates time scales within which which a PPC must request RK details from the DVLA as well as when an NtK can be issued. Then there is a further period of time to pay or give up the name of the driver if it was someone else. Only after all that can proceedings for recovery begin.
If the OP's auntie has only recently moved house it seems very odd that she has received no NtK, no LBA, no court papers, nothing prior to moving. Something isn't right here.
The V5C issue date is shown next to the Document Reference Number at the very bottom of the Vehicle Details page. Another thing worth checking is the DoR (Date of Request) when the PPC asked for her details from DVLA under KADOE.
Never trust a PPC to comply fully with the rules, especially one which is an IPC member. The one in question jumped ship from the BPA for a reason.
Btw, I thought Aldi contracted exclusively with PE not Excel. Or have they jumped ship too?
OK - the CCJ has gone to the old address not the new sorry.
The person living at their old house was opening the letters and phoning the parking company to say they no longer lived there (it appears auntie and uncle are in contact with the new occupants) but now the CCJ has landed at the old address the new occupiers have passed it on to my Auntie. So I guess from that that the parking company haven't gone through DVLA as they would have the new address details?
I think there has been an element of ignoring on their part that is not being admitted to as my uncle made some noises he was told by someone these private parking fines couldn't be enforced and to ignore.
In my Aunties defence she had a heart attack earlier this year and was in hospital for weeks so that and moving house when she got out I guess her staying too long in Aldi some months ago wasn't on the priority list but it would appear that the parking company haven't followed procedure if they have been told by the new occupants of the move and have simply passed on to a legal firm ( BW Legal) who have got the judgement through non response / receipt and added costs on. Her date of birth is missing from the judgement and the form says she hasn't responded. It's dated 19th Aug but was forwarded on to my uncle today.
The person living at their old house was opening the letters and phoning the parking company to say they no longer lived there (it appears auntie and uncle are in contact with the new occupants) but now the CCJ has landed at the old address the new occupiers have passed it on to my Auntie. So I guess from that that the parking company haven't gone through DVLA as they would have the new address details?
I think there has been an element of ignoring on their part that is not being admitted to as my uncle made some noises he was told by someone these private parking fines couldn't be enforced and to ignore.
In my Aunties defence she had a heart attack earlier this year and was in hospital for weeks so that and moving house when she got out I guess her staying too long in Aldi some months ago wasn't on the priority list but it would appear that the parking company haven't followed procedure if they have been told by the new occupants of the move and have simply passed on to a legal firm ( BW Legal) who have got the judgement through non response / receipt and added costs on. Her date of birth is missing from the judgement and the form says she hasn't responded. It's dated 19th Aug but was forwarded on to my uncle today.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Not the answer you probably want, but if the judgement is paid within 30 days (I think) and that is reported to the Court the CCJ will never be formally recorded.
Agreed it is an expensive mistake. I'm getting sparse info back from my Uncle who has the CCJ letter but I reckon they have ignored it until it was too late on the advice from 'down the pub' that these private parking fines aren't enforceable and to simply ignore, then moved house and now its too late. Vron said:
Agreed it is an expensive mistake. I'm getting sparse info back from my Uncle who has the CCJ letter but I reckon they have ignored it until it was too late on the advice from 'down the pub' that these private parking fines aren't enforceable and to simply ignore, then moved house and now its too late.
It can still potentially be fought but for the court to reopen the case there needs to be a reasonable chance of success. Some people seem to devote their lives to denying PPC's a single penny. It is not in itself unreasonable for the PPC to issue proceedings to the address recorded at DVLA and that would not be grounds for it to be reopened.What about a written statement to the Court from the new occupier saying they repeatedly told the parking company / BW Legal that my Auntie didn't live there anymore?
I had similar when I bought a repossessed house. Loads of CCJ's coming through the letterbox (previous owner had done a runner to Spain after getting a 125% mortgage then never making a single payment) and none of these companies taking any notice whatsoever when I rang them to tell them I was the new owner and if they bothered to check on the Land Registry they could see the property had been sold.
I had baliffs at the door at 5am asking for my passport to prove I wasn't who they were chasing.
The most annoying was the mortgage company who had been defrauded sending me letters about the outstanding mortgage deficit now the property had been sold!!!
I had similar when I bought a repossessed house. Loads of CCJ's coming through the letterbox (previous owner had done a runner to Spain after getting a 125% mortgage then never making a single payment) and none of these companies taking any notice whatsoever when I rang them to tell them I was the new owner and if they bothered to check on the Land Registry they could see the property had been sold.
I had baliffs at the door at 5am asking for my passport to prove I wasn't who they were chasing.
The most annoying was the mortgage company who had been defrauded sending me letters about the outstanding mortgage deficit now the property had been sold!!!
Vron said:
OK - the CCJ has gone to the old address not the new sorry.
The person living at their old house was opening the letters and phoning the parking company to say they no longer lived there (it appears auntie and uncle are in contact with the new occupants) but now the CCJ has landed at the old address the new occupiers have passed it on to my Auntie. So I guess from that that the parking company haven't gone through DVLA as they would have the new address details?
You need to look at the timeline using the information I gave you. What date was the parking event and when was the new V5C issued? Did the new occupants have her forwarding address? If so, why didn't they send her any of the correspondence? Not very nice if, having opened it, they knew it had potential financial repercussions for her.The person living at their old house was opening the letters and phoning the parking company to say they no longer lived there (it appears auntie and uncle are in contact with the new occupants) but now the CCJ has landed at the old address the new occupiers have passed it on to my Auntie. So I guess from that that the parking company haven't gone through DVLA as they would have the new address details?
Vron said:
I think there has been an element of ignoring on their part that is not being admitted to as my uncle made some noises he was told by someone these private parking fines couldn't be enforced and to ignore.
Oh dear, another person duped by very poor advice from a pub lawyer. 
Btw, who is the RK, her or your uncle?Vron said:
In my Aunties defence she had a heart attack earlier this year and was in hospital for weeks so that and moving house when she got out I guess her staying too long in Aldi some months ago wasn't on the priority list but it would appear that the parking company haven't followed procedure if they have been told by the new occupants of the move and have simply passed on to a legal firm ( BW Legal) who have got the judgement through non response / receipt and added costs on. Her date of birth is missing from the judgement and the form says she hasn't responded. It's dated 19th Aug but was forwarded on to my uncle today.
I thought you said the move was recent. If so, the process may have already been well under way prior to that. Whatever the PPC or their debt collector may have been told by the new occupants may have come too late.There may have been procedural errors which could be to your advantage but it's difficult to provide much practical help or advice when specific information/details are missing.
TooMany2CVs made a very valid point about mail redirection. It appears that none was in place. If so, why not? It didn't have to be her that organised it: your uncle could have done so. It's pretty basic stuff.
Red Devil said:
Vron said:
OK - the CCJ has gone to the old address not the new sorry.
The person living at their old house was opening the letters and phoning the parking company to say they no longer lived there (it appears auntie and uncle are in contact with the new occupants) but now the CCJ has landed at the old address the new occupiers have passed it on to my Auntie. So I guess from that that the parking company haven't gone through DVLA as they would have the new address details?
You need to look at the timeline using the information I gave you. What date was the parking event and when was the new V5C issued? Did the new occupants have her forwarding address? If so, why didn't they send her any of the correspondence? Not very nice if, having opened it, they knew it had potential financial repercussions for her.The person living at their old house was opening the letters and phoning the parking company to say they no longer lived there (it appears auntie and uncle are in contact with the new occupants) but now the CCJ has landed at the old address the new occupiers have passed it on to my Auntie. So I guess from that that the parking company haven't gone through DVLA as they would have the new address details?
Vron said:
I think there has been an element of ignoring on their part that is not being admitted to as my uncle made some noises he was told by someone these private parking fines couldn't be enforced and to ignore.
Oh dear, another person duped by very poor advice from a pub lawyer. Btw, who is the RK, her or your uncle?Vron said:
In my Aunties defence she had a heart attack earlier this year and was in hospital for weeks so that and moving house when she got out I guess her staying too long in Aldi some months ago wasn't on the priority list but it would appear that the parking company haven't followed procedure if they have been told by the new occupants of the move and have simply passed on to a legal firm ( BW Legal) who have got the judgement through non response / receipt and added costs on. Her date of birth is missing from the judgement and the form says she hasn't responded. It's dated 19th Aug but was forwarded on to my uncle today.
I thought you said the move was recent. If so, the process may have already been well under way prior to that. Whatever the PPC or their debt collector may have been told by the new occupants may have come too late.There may have been procedural errors which could be to your advantage but it's difficult to provide much practical help or advice when specific information/details are missing.
TooMany2CVs made a very valid point about mail redirection. It appears that none was in place. If so, why not? It didn't have to be her that organised it: your uncle could have done so. It's pretty basic stuff.
Vron said:
Hi
After a bit of advice. My auntie has had the above today. In a panic over it says judgement has been entered and she owes £260. She has recently moved house and says she didn't receive any paperwork other than the final judgement (which had gone to her NEW address ?!?).
I understand the fine relates to overstaying in an Aldi car park managed by Excel parking. She is happy to pay the fine but not all the additional costs as she says she never received anything as it had gone to her old address or she would have paid up.
Can she appeal for the judgement to be set aside? I presume Excel parking / BW Legal would have submitted letters to the court showing her old address so that would help?
I've been over on pepipoo but can't see a clear answer as to what to do if Judgement has been made?
Thanks.
When your aunt moved, did she set up a mail redirection service?After a bit of advice. My auntie has had the above today. In a panic over it says judgement has been entered and she owes £260. She has recently moved house and says she didn't receive any paperwork other than the final judgement (which had gone to her NEW address ?!?).
I understand the fine relates to overstaying in an Aldi car park managed by Excel parking. She is happy to pay the fine but not all the additional costs as she says she never received anything as it had gone to her old address or she would have paid up.
Can she appeal for the judgement to be set aside? I presume Excel parking / BW Legal would have submitted letters to the court showing her old address so that would help?
I've been over on pepipoo but can't see a clear answer as to what to do if Judgement has been made?
Thanks.
http://www.royalmail.com/personal/receiving-mail
Mail will automatically be forwarded to her new address. This avoids the possibility that mail will be sent to the old address and also avoids the possibility that mail may be opened and read by a stranger.
TooMany2cvs said:
Vron said:
Auntie is the Registered keeper.
But at what address?Mail re-direction wasn't set up.
He has posted a picture of the CCJ on Facebook asking what to do and idiots are commenting 'just ignore it, can't be enforced'.
Makes interesting reading, I have recently had a phone call from BW legal, who wanted me to confirm who I was, but would not tell me what the enquiry was about, and then last week got a letter from both Excel and BW legal regarding a supposed car park contravention in 2012.
So I have asked them for some proof of it and I am awaiting the reply.
Will keep you updated.
So I have asked them for some proof of it and I am awaiting the reply.
Will keep you updated.
The actual date of the parking event will be crucial. If it was prior to the commencement date of PoFA 2012, keeper liability doesn't apply and the legislation is not retrospective. They will have to chase the driver. You're under no obligation to tell them. If it were me I doubt whether I could remember who would have been driving the family barge on a particular day 4 years ago and they can shove it where the sun doesn't shine.
A lot of PPCs/collection agents are trying to resurrect old cases of this type in the hope that people are stupid enough to fall for it. It just shows how desperate they are to grab whatever cash they think they can. If they couldn't deal with it successfully at the time why do they think they'll have any better luck now?
They might try and scare you with Elliott v Loake but that was a completely different set of circumstances relating to an RTA on a public road. The conviction was not because the appellant was the registered keeper but because he lied when questioned about the incident. As it was proved unquestionably that his vehicle that was involved in the incident then why did he lie? The car wasn't stolen, the keys never left his possession, no-one had permission to use it and there was forensic evidence that showed it was his car but he still denied being the driver. It was the lying that caused the conviction and not the fact that he was the RK.
A lot of PPCs/collection agents are trying to resurrect old cases of this type in the hope that people are stupid enough to fall for it. It just shows how desperate they are to grab whatever cash they think they can. If they couldn't deal with it successfully at the time why do they think they'll have any better luck now?
They might try and scare you with Elliott v Loake but that was a completely different set of circumstances relating to an RTA on a public road. The conviction was not because the appellant was the registered keeper but because he lied when questioned about the incident. As it was proved unquestionably that his vehicle that was involved in the incident then why did he lie? The car wasn't stolen, the keys never left his possession, no-one had permission to use it and there was forensic evidence that showed it was his car but he still denied being the driver. It was the lying that caused the conviction and not the fact that he was the RK.
Red Devil said:
If judgment has definitely been entered then a set aside on the grounds of no claim papers having been received can be made. However read this first. You need to find out whether there is a reasonable prospect of winning at a new hearing based on the PPC having stuffed up. There could be a number of different reasons why that might have happened.
I'm assuming this is an ANPR monitored car park.
For a judgement to have been entered some considerable time must have elapsed since the parking event. Schedule 4 of PoFA 2012 mandates time scales within which which a PPC must request RK details from the DVLA as well as when an NtK can be issued. Then there is a further period of time to pay or give up the name of the driver if it was someone else. Only after all that can proceedings for recovery begin.
If the OP's auntie has only recently moved house it seems very odd that she has received no NtK, no LBA, no court papers, nothing prior to moving. Something isn't right here.
The V5C issue date is shown next to the Document Reference Number at the very bottom of the Vehicle Details page. Another thing worth checking is the DoR (Date of Request) when the PPC asked for her details from DVLA under KADOE.
Never trust a PPC to comply fully with the rules, especially one which is an IPC member. The one in question jumped ship from the BPA for a reason.
Btw, I thought Aldi contracted exclusively with PE not Excel. Or have they jumped ship too?
OK from what I have been told this morning, Fine was issued March 2015 - they had two letters which they ignored, they then moved house in May 2015 and the car the fine relates to was then sold in June 2015. No mail redirection was put in place and no warning letters etc have been forwarded on to my uncle only this CCJ.I'm assuming this is an ANPR monitored car park.
For a judgement to have been entered some considerable time must have elapsed since the parking event. Schedule 4 of PoFA 2012 mandates time scales within which which a PPC must request RK details from the DVLA as well as when an NtK can be issued. Then there is a further period of time to pay or give up the name of the driver if it was someone else. Only after all that can proceedings for recovery begin.
If the OP's auntie has only recently moved house it seems very odd that she has received no NtK, no LBA, no court papers, nothing prior to moving. Something isn't right here.
The V5C issue date is shown next to the Document Reference Number at the very bottom of the Vehicle Details page. Another thing worth checking is the DoR (Date of Request) when the PPC asked for her details from DVLA under KADOE.
Never trust a PPC to comply fully with the rules, especially one which is an IPC member. The one in question jumped ship from the BPA for a reason.
Btw, I thought Aldi contracted exclusively with PE not Excel. Or have they jumped ship too?
The CCJ dated 19th Aug 2016 has gone to their old address presumably as that was correct as of March 2015 and nobody has checked to see if anything has changed since despite the new occupant of the house phoning three times to tell them not at that address anymore.
Does this then mean the parking company have not followed procedure in getting the correct details from DVLA to start court proceedings which would have shown the car as sold anyway regardless of the address change? Is it acceptable to serve a CCJ without checking no material facts have changed over a year on?
Vron said:
OK from what I have been told this morning, Fine was issued March 2015 - they had two letters which they ignored, they then moved house in May 2015 and the car the fine relates to was then sold in June 2015. No mail redirection was put in place and no warning letters etc have been forwarded on to my uncle only this CCJ.
Self-inflicted, then...Some guidance here on the set aside process https://www.gov.uk/county-court-judgments-ccj-for-...
I'd get back on Pepipoo and start a thread. They're pretty terse given the current deluge of BW Legal cases but just post the facts (all of them) and they will (should) know what to do.
I'd get back on Pepipoo and start a thread. They're pretty terse given the current deluge of BW Legal cases but just post the facts (all of them) and they will (should) know what to do.
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