Road Traffic act in a Pedestrian zone...

[wedgeinald]

I personally don't know the answer to this question, and having made a quick search here (and in the reams of traffic act stuff but that gives me a headache!)couldn't find anything relevant, so have decided to start a new thread (hopefully a very short one!)

In a pedesrtain zone like those that exist in most towns these days, during the hours of pedestrianation how much of the road traffic act still applies? all? some? none? totally different rules?

My natural auusmption would be all of it, but I know that might not be the correct answer as obviously somethings are changed, with regard to cars etc access in the roads during those hours at least.

Once I have an answer to that part of the question I'll throw a spanner in the works and ask the second part...

Can any/all/some/none of those rules be 'suspended' on either a one off or semi regular basis by an 'authority' (Police, local council etc?) and what are the proccedures (basic - don't need 20 pages of legalease here) the level of this person must fill out this request (maybe with the act number / date etc if known?) and get whoever to approve it will be sufficient.

I know its a bit vague but I'm thinking things like one way streets, no entry, rather than parking restrictions.

If need be I can clarify a bit more but just wanted a general answer at first. See if it's even worth discussing in any more depth.

Thank in advance for any help.

[Derek Smith]

The law still applies. It is still a road.

Subject to a specific insurance.

[wedgeinald]

Thanks for answering/confirming part 1 for me.....

Anyone know about part 2?

Off for some food will check in later.

[Derek Smith]

wedgeinald said:

Thanks for answering/confirming part 1 for me.....

Anyone know about part 2?

Off for some food will check in later.

Which particular laws? The relevant authorities can stop vehicles entering a stretch of road, any road.

Police can cause a vehicle to stop.

It will be a public place in all probability.

For special events the relevant authorities can include specific limitations and suspend certain regulations.

I'm off for a meal out in 10 mins. I'm in Italy so won't look at the thread until tomorrow.

[wedgeinald]

One way streets and No Entry are the ones I'm most interested in, can they be 'lifted' for vehicles allowed ('special') access to the pedestrian area during pedestrian hours?

If they can be lifted what needs to be done, paperwork etc? Does this need to be on a case by case basis or can a 'regular' exemption be allowed etc.

Or do they always apply regardless?

To my mind it's bad enough allowing vehicles into a pedestrian area during pedestrian hours, but I realise that sometimes there needs to be execptions, but to also 'allow' them to ignore the 'rules of those roads' seems silly to me.

Hence my post on the subject.

[Derek Smith]

wedgeinald said:

One way streets and No Entry are the ones I'm most interested in, can they be 'lifted' for vehicles allowed ('special') access to the pedestrian area during pedestrian hours?

If they can be lifted what needs to be done, paperwork etc? Does this need to be on a case by case basis or can a 'regular' exemption be allowed etc.

Or do they always apply regardless?

To my mind it's bad enough allowing vehicles into a pedestrian area during pedestrian hours, but I realise that sometimes there needs to be execptions, but to also 'allow' them to ignore the 'rules of those roads' seems silly to me.

Hence my post on the subject.

The way one way streets are imposed and altered is by a traffic regulation order (or tht used to be their name). Local authorities do this. If you want to know whether your specific one is regular, on special occasions or by other means requires a sight of the specific TRO.

I've contacted the local authority road regulation department as a concerned citizen and they've been very helpful.

With regards to pedestrians and vehicles sharing the same bit of road, research has shown that this is a very safe mix. There was a trial a few years ago where kerbs were removed and specific areas for different users were a thing of the past.

[wedgeinald]

Thanks for your help, I went to see the local council this morning and spoke to a nice man at the traffic section who assured me they would 'under no circumstances' allow vehicle to drive against the one way street.

or..... 'I can however confirm that as a highway authority we would not have given permission for ... vehicles to be abusing the one-way restrictions and we have highlighted ... that this practice must cease immediately.'

Thanks again for your input.

Edited by wedgeinald on Monday 12th September 15:01

[wedgeinald]

Despite being told in plain English, this situation is still continuing and has not been resolved. This is 1 month after the initial problem arose.

I'm not sure how much detail I can go into on here, but I'm seemingly hitting brick walls/indifference in trying to sort this out.

Any advice on what the sequence of escalation I can use to raise this so I can get a solution?

I have tried the councils and the Police, and am not making the progress I was hoping too.

What should be my next logical step? Media (paper,radio,TV?), Local MP, etc?

If someone wants me to impart more information (maybe in a PM?) then I'd be glad to see what my options are.

[ashleyman]

wedgeinald said:

Despite being told in plain English, this situation is still continuing and has not been resolved. This is 1 month after the initial problem arose.

I'm not sure how much detail I can go into on here, but I'm seemingly hitting brick walls/indifference in trying to sort this out.

Any advice on what the sequence of escalation I can use to raise this so I can get a solution?

I have tried the councils and the Police, and am not making the progress I was hoping too.

What should be my next logical step? Media (paper,radio,TV?), Local MP, etc?

If someone wants me to impart more information (maybe in a PM?) then I'd be glad to see what my options are.

We had similar with contractors, trades-men and suppliers driving the wrong way down a one-way street to access a building site. In the end residents of the road started capturing evidence of drivers breaking the one way rule and sending it to the local councillor. Signs were erected, the house builder was fined and told off but it never stopped. Then the residents started to block the road and eventually it led to having a police presence and drivers being caught out.

Perhaps you need to skip ahead and speak to the traffic devision of your local police force and show evidence of whats going on and have them come down and attend a few times to see for themselves.

Unfortunately NONE of this stops the Dominos pizza boys going down on their mopeds back to the store on a Friday and Saturday night. Hope you get it sorted.

[Derek Smith]

Could you clarify what you mean by 'the police'. How did you approach them? Did you try your PCSO?

Could I ask if the situation is causing danger, disruption or inconvenience, and if so in what way. I'm not suggesting that it is not important, just considering routes.

[wedgeinald]

Tried the local PCSO on the day but they were busy so had called it in on 101.

Have given written statements, and chased up both councils by e-mail and the police by phone.

Town Council are using the 'we've always done this and its not been an issue before' defence. Claiming things happen to 'lessen the danger' that have never happened but suddenly started happening recently after my incident, and before the police came along to see what was happening.

Police have 'observed' and seem currently to be happy to allow them to continue to break the law, despite the input from highways initially saying 'no way' and the fact no paperwork has been done to request the removal of the restriction, and certainly this has not been granted.

I'm not sure how successful any further action on my part will be but I want to highlight this, it seems that the Town Council think they are 'above the law' and the Police seem to be allowing/condoning this?

EDIT: When asked if the police could 'put in writing' the current arrangements that they were happy with they refused to do so, makes me think they know its wrong?

Maybe a letter to the Chief Constable?

Edited by wedgeinald on Monday 10th October 14:44

[Red Devil]

Get your local ward Councillor and MP onside as well. If they show a lack of interest stir up the local rag.
Reckless drivers putting OAPs/mothers with toddlers/fluffy bunnies at risk.

[Derek Smith]

The police may ignore any regulation, at least that's the theory. In practice they only do so for minor matters. The No Entry might be seen by them as something that does not require their involvement.

If you are going to send another letter to the police - the CC will probably not read the letter - then you should show a reason for your concern. In other words, be specific. Just a general 'it's against the law' might well be insufficient for them to change their policies.

The local press will be looking for a bit of 'news' to fill some space, but might not be all that welcoming to a campaign, unless it is newsworthy, ie generating advertising.

[wedgeinald]

Thanks

Will try and see what happens.

[Vroom101]

Maybe get a group of similarly concerned residents together, ring the local paper and one of those group photos where you all stand there looking glum in front of the road in question. Shame the Town Council into doing the right thing, and add that the police were uninterested in enforcing this particular law.

[wedgeinald]

Hi all,

I seem to still be hitting brick walls and closing ranks on this one.

Maybe someone can advise me on another angle, if a vehicle is breaking the law is it's insurance still valid at that point?

I.e. as going the wrong way up a one way street is contrary to the road traffic act, would that be grounds for their insurance to be invalid?

I might have to contact the specific insurer but thought I'd see if anyone knows before I pursue that avenue.

Thanks in advance

[SS2.]

wedgeinald said:

..as going the wrong way up a one way street is contrary to the road traffic act, would that be grounds for their insurance to be invalid?

No.

Rather like travelling at 31mph in a 30mph limit wouldn't void cover either.

[wedgeinald]

Ok thanks was worth an ask.

[ashleyman]

wedgeinald said:

Hi all,

I seem to still be hitting brick walls and closing ranks on this one.

Maybe someone can advise me on another angle, if a vehicle is breaking the law is it's insurance still valid at that point?

I.e. as going the wrong way up a one way street is contrary to the road traffic act, would that be grounds for their insurance to be invalid?

I might have to contact the specific insurer but thought I'd see if anyone knows before I pursue that avenue.

Thanks in advance

Are these vans sign-written? Could you film them breaking the one way street and then get them in trouble that way?

You definitely need to start getting evidence though and then using that to your advantage. Either through local, national papers or sending it to police and MPs.

[davepoth]

Do it yourself, get caught, use the council's intransigence as a defence? It'll get you convicted but at least you'll have a court case to lean on then.

-edit-

Or do the more sensible thing and FOI request details of any convictions for doing what the council have done.