Ultima GTR V12

[alfasteve]

Hi all Ultima lovers
I just fell in love with the Ultima GTR
my name is steven i live in the Netherlands
and i feel the need for speed
so i have a BMW V 12 in my garage and a Porsche Turbo
gearbox
i was looking for a gd chassis to build this tougether and i saw the Ultima
it was love at first sight

now i already read the various topics on other engines than a V12 but i am determent so i will do it because the V8 sound does not sound so well as a V12
and i can

but does one of you out there know someone who did this before the main problem will be adaptor for the gearbox to the engine
and the engine mounts
i am also curious on the wait of an iron v8 compaired
with my All Aluminium V12 approx 200 Kg

please send me your idea's on this

[bigmack]

Very cool! I looked into this when I was choosing an engine. The only reason that I didn't pursue it was due to the high cost of building 500+hp from the BMW V12. Mclaren, as you know, has done this but they used the Mclaren transaxle as well. Do you have the short or long version G50? It can be done, but you will need to stretch the chassis. You would need to stretch the engine bay section, and fill in the bodywork. You would also need custom exhaust made, and have to redo the engine, gearbox, and suspension mounts. I've contacted KEP (Kennedy Engineered Products-in the U.S.), and they were willing to make me a custom adapter plate and flywheel but they'd need your engine and gearbox and it would take a while. I think if I do anything radical like this...then I might also think about a viper V10 motor. Let us know what you decide. I'd be interested in seeing the final result.
Cheers!
-Mack

[JonRB]

I believe McLaren used an Ultima chassis as their test mule for the engine and drivetrain during the development of the McLaren F1, but as bigmack says, I think it was stretched and modified to accept it.

[alfasteve]

Hi Mack
Thanks for yr reply it is possible without stretching the chassis/body as the engine is only a few cm/inches longer than a chevy
but i will have to see how i make it work i will modify the engine hoping to see 480 Hp normal aspirated
this is very cheep for me as i have ea few of these engines they go for prices like 2000 Euro for an engine
with a few miles on it wich leaves enough room to get more power out of the unit

quote:
Very cool! I looked into this when I was choosing an engine. The only reason that I didn't pursue it was due to the high cost of building 500+hp from the BMW V12. Mclaren, as you know, has done this but they used the Mclaren transaxle as well. Do you have the short or long version G50? It can be done, but you will need to stretch the chassis. You would need to stretch the engine bay section, and fill in the bodywork. You would also need custom exhaust made, and have to redo the engine, gearbox, and suspension mounts. I've contacted KEP (Kennedy Engineered Products-in the U.S.), and they were willing to make me a custom adapter plate and flywheel but they'd need your engine and gearbox and it would take a while. I think if I do anything radical like this...then I might also think about a viper V10 motor. Let us know what you decide. I'd be interested in seeing the final result.
Cheers!
-Mack

[alfasteve]

Hi John
see my reply to mack it will be definately possible without streching
and i will get this working

quote:
I believe McLaren used an Ultima chassis as their test mule for the engine and drivetrain during the development of the McLaren F1, but as bigmack says, I think it was stretched and modified to accept it.

[ultimapaul]

alfasteve - check where the outputs from the transaxle will fall in relation to the rear wheels. You don't want any excessive angles .... see the post regarding blown drive shafts.

The Macca engine was bespoke, absolutely nothing to do with the V12 out of the 7 series. The straight six in the E36 M3 was closer to the Macca engine in being half of the engine installed into the Maclaren.

[bigmack]

Hi Alfasteve,
I had know idea that the engine was that short. I wouldn't think you would need to modify the engine bay, but you might want to use the short G50 to be on the safe side. There is even a mod to shorten a short G50 that the porsche guys sometime do. 480hp is a healthy engine output. It sounds like you've done your research. You'll need to redo the motor mounts. You'll need to get both the correct position fore/aft and proper height. It shouldn't be that big of a deal. It would be nice if you could position the motor so that the driveshafts would line up. If not, then you'll have to reposition the suspension mounts and redo the wheel arches. Let us know how this goes. Have you asked the factory if they will do custom motor and gearbox mounts for the V12? Just a thought.
Cheers!
-Mack

[alfasteve]

Hi Mack

Thanks for the wisdom on the gearbox
i have asked the factory i gave the dimensions wich are 74 Cm lengt included the Puley
and heiht is between 60 and 70 Cm

please explaine the story of the long and short gearbox
the box i have got is a turbo box with lsd 40% and 100%
from 92
how can i see that i got the long version
the driveshaft location is almost against the cluch
housing

i am also thinkimg of putting a Roots type blower
i not shure about this

would prefer normal aspirated and tune the engine up to 450 480 Hp with a Dist less motormanagement sys
but the gearbox is still one of my wories wether i have the long or shorth version

ps do you know the dimensions for a chevy V8 esp the total lengt from the puley to the rear where the box will conect

quote:
Hi Alfasteve,
I had know idea that the engine was that short. I wouldn't think you would need to modify the engine bay, but you might want to use the short G50 to be on the safe side. There is even a mod to shorten a short G50 that the porsche guys sometime do. 480hp is a healthy engine output. It sounds like you've done your research. You'll need to redo the motor mounts. You'll need to get both the correct position fore/aft and proper height. It shouldn't be that big of a deal. It would be nice if you could position the motor so that the driveshafts would line up. If not, then you'll have to reposition the suspension mounts and redo the wheel arches. Let us know how this goes. Have you asked the factory if they will do custom motor and gearbox mounts for the V12? Just a thought.
Cheers!
-Mack

[alfasteve]

Hi Paul
i do not orderd or have the car yet , i do have 2 engines and a gearbox
the engine is not that long lengt from the puley to the rear where the box conects is 74 Cm

but i do not know the lengt for a chevy if you know please tell me

quote:
alfasteve - check where the outputs from the transaxle will fall in relation to the rear wheels. You don't want any excessive angles .... see the post regarding blown drive shafts.

The Macca engine was bespoke, absolutely nothing to do with the V12 out of the 7 series. The straight six in the E36 M3 was closer to the Macca engine in being half of the engine installed into the Maclaren.

[deleteall]

Check out lambolounge.com. They've got a BMW v12 hooked up to an audi transaxle. It can apparently handle 400hp (which is 100 over stock) and best of all it cost $45. They also have a "how-to" make an adaptor plate for it.

Otherwise go to the links section and find "diablo builder's support" Post you're question there. Numerous builders with numerous transaxle set-ups. Most of the guys are DIY'ers so someone's probably made made what you need. And they are very friendly.

[alfasteve]

Hi ..?

Thanks for the info, but didnt know audi had a transaxle but my engine output will be 450 - 480 Hp
and i already got 2 porsche boxes
will check the site

cheers

quote:
Check out lambolounge.com. They've got a BMW v12 hooked up to an audi transaxle. It can apparently handle 400hp (which is 100 over stock) and best of all it cost $45. They also have a "how-to" make an adaptor plate for it.

Otherwise go to the links section and find "diablo builder's support" Post you're question there. Numerous builders with numerous transaxle set-ups. Most of the guys are DIY'ers so someone's probably made made what you need. And they are very friendly.

[alfasteve]

Hi me again
yust checked out the site it helped a lot
but think for the Ultima the porsche box will be the save option as
the drive shafts will have to be made/the lengt of the shafts
so for me it is saver but more expensive

i am still looking for performance parts to modify the BMW V12 like high compr pistons/cams
or i will only use cams and redeck the engine block to raise the compression to 11.5 - 1 or 12 - 1

but do not know if and how it will efect the cam timing

Cheers

steve

quote:
Check out lambolounge.com. They've got a BMW v12 hooked up to an audi transaxle. It can apparently handle 400hp (which is 100 over stock) and best of all it cost $45. They also have a "how-to" make an adaptor plate for it.

Otherwise go to the links section and find "diablo builder's support" Post you're question there. Numerous builders with numerous transaxle set-ups. Most of the guys are DIY'ers so someone's probably made made what you need. And they are very friendly.

[ultimaandy]

This was an option that I seriously thought about but went for Chevy due to my of the necessary technical knowledge.

My chevy claimed to weighed 215kgs complete! that is acording to the airline that flew it over from the USA.

[alfasteve]

Hi

Thanks for the info yrs must be an iron block
the V 12 weighs just below 200 Kgm

ps do you also have the dimensions on the engine length , height, wide

cheers

quote:
This was an option that I seriously thought about but went for Chevy due to my of the necessary technical knowledge.

My chevy claimed to weighed 215kgs complete! that is acording to the airline that flew it over from the USA.

[deleteall]

At the widest point which is at the two distributor caps and as mesured with out wires in the caps it is 20.75 wide. It is 29.25 long if you cut off the viscus fan clutch. At the oil pan it is 16.5 and it is 26 high mesured at the top of the air plenums.

[alfasteve]

Thanks
these dimensions are for a Chevy V8...??
and one more measurement i should know the space between the puley and the firewal
so i can see how much room there is to move it up forward

cheers

steve

quote:
At the widest point which is at the two distributor caps and as mesured with out wires in the caps it is 20.75 wide. It is 29.25 long if you cut off the viscus fan clutch. At the oil pan it is 16.5 and it is 26 high mesured at the top of the air plenums.

[viperman]

viper V10 baby!

[alfasteve]

so the dimensions are for a Viper V10 8.0 monster

quote:
viper V10 baby!

[deleteall]

These dimensions are for a BMW V12. I know I posted it.

Have you considered mounting it transversely? I know you said you had two porsche boxes, but selling those and buying a nw unit sounds a lot easier than stretching the frame and body.



>> Edited by deleteall on Sunday 1st September 19:28

[alfasteve]

Hi so but i already got a V12 i try to compare the v12 with a Chevy
i need the dimensions for a Chevy V8 to compare it with
the V12 so i can know how far the engine must move forward in order to keep the gearbox in the right place
also the space in front of the puley and the firewal

steve

quote:
These dimensions are for a BMW V12. I know I posted it.

Have you considered mounting it transversely? I know you said you had two porsche boxes, but selling those and buying a nw unit sounds a lot easier than stretching the frame and body.



>> Edited by deleteall on Sunday 1st September 19:28