Facebook WTF tinfoil hattery...
Discussion
I had a moan on here a few weeks ago about starting to get pissed off with Facebook. Too annoying, too much of a time vampire, and too many stupid people on it. I had a cull of friends who I had not seen in years, a cull of stupid people who "like and share" stupid content or fictional "win a Bentley" competitions, and a cull of groups where discussions always seemed to turn into bun fights. All seemed a lot better in my digital world.
Last night the other half and I went for dinner with some friends. There were three other couples, they are a bit older than us and retired, and about to head off in their respective motorhomes down to Spain for the winter, and this was a bit of a "farewell for now" dinner. As it happens, my phone was dead, so I left it on my home office desk when we went out.
Now I know Facebook has been accused of "listening" to people. All of our friends are smartphone users and also Facebook members. Hold that thought.
So...one of the couples (the hosts) have only just bought their motorhome and a fine thing it is too. We all had a good look round, and I was teasing my mate about being a tightwad and we were speaking about wild camping (well, as wild as you can get in a fecking great motorhome with satellite TV and a shower...), and he was saying about wanting to find some good free spots on the way down to Spain, and showing me the "beware of the dog" stickers he's added for security.
During dinner, among a million other unrelated topics the conversation at some point went to crime in Benidorm where they are headed, and some of the tricks that the locals have been known to play on the roads to "hijack" or break into a motorhome. And obviously a load of other unconnected stuff too.
We said our goodbyes and got home late. I had a quick peek at Facebook, on my laptop PC which I had been working on all day, and there to the right of my news feed were two "suggested groups", one about places to wild camp with a motorhome, one about crime and scams in Benidorm. What the actual juddering f
k. Coincidence? I think not.
So my laptop and phones had not moved from my desk all day, so there was no way with any kind of geolocation FB would have have known where I was. So the only thing I can think of here is that it has a speech analytics platform that is listening out for the owner of the phone in question, working out what is being said, and then voice biometrics to see who else is in the room with you. (and this is all perfectly achievable...I sell this technology into contact centres). Obviously a quick peek at a user's friends list will narrow it down so it's only needing to compare the voice fingerprint against a short list and bingo.
Now I know that's a bit tinfoil hat and borderline "cool story bro" but IMHO if this is real, then that's a massive invasion of privacy. I get that one user's phone might push content to that user, but if FB are actually working out who you are with and starting to eavesdrop in that way to "target" them, that is way too 1984 for me, and Facebook...ahm 'oot.
I cannot think of any other way. No one in the group posted anything anywhere about "off to Spain soon", nothing about "having dinner with these guys", and the only even slightly associated FB group that I am already a member of is "Land Rover Campers" and I have a Defender and I'm a member of some other Land Rover groups, but nothing even slightly motorhome related. Nor have I done any googling on Benidorm crime or places to stay on a trip to Spain as it obviously has no relevance to me.
Thoughts?
Last night the other half and I went for dinner with some friends. There were three other couples, they are a bit older than us and retired, and about to head off in their respective motorhomes down to Spain for the winter, and this was a bit of a "farewell for now" dinner. As it happens, my phone was dead, so I left it on my home office desk when we went out.
Now I know Facebook has been accused of "listening" to people. All of our friends are smartphone users and also Facebook members. Hold that thought.
So...one of the couples (the hosts) have only just bought their motorhome and a fine thing it is too. We all had a good look round, and I was teasing my mate about being a tightwad and we were speaking about wild camping (well, as wild as you can get in a fecking great motorhome with satellite TV and a shower...), and he was saying about wanting to find some good free spots on the way down to Spain, and showing me the "beware of the dog" stickers he's added for security.
During dinner, among a million other unrelated topics the conversation at some point went to crime in Benidorm where they are headed, and some of the tricks that the locals have been known to play on the roads to "hijack" or break into a motorhome. And obviously a load of other unconnected stuff too.
We said our goodbyes and got home late. I had a quick peek at Facebook, on my laptop PC which I had been working on all day, and there to the right of my news feed were two "suggested groups", one about places to wild camp with a motorhome, one about crime and scams in Benidorm. What the actual juddering f
k. Coincidence? I think not.So my laptop and phones had not moved from my desk all day, so there was no way with any kind of geolocation FB would have have known where I was. So the only thing I can think of here is that it has a speech analytics platform that is listening out for the owner of the phone in question, working out what is being said, and then voice biometrics to see who else is in the room with you. (and this is all perfectly achievable...I sell this technology into contact centres). Obviously a quick peek at a user's friends list will narrow it down so it's only needing to compare the voice fingerprint against a short list and bingo.
Now I know that's a bit tinfoil hat and borderline "cool story bro" but IMHO if this is real, then that's a massive invasion of privacy. I get that one user's phone might push content to that user, but if FB are actually working out who you are with and starting to eavesdrop in that way to "target" them, that is way too 1984 for me, and Facebook...ahm 'oot.
I cannot think of any other way. No one in the group posted anything anywhere about "off to Spain soon", nothing about "having dinner with these guys", and the only even slightly associated FB group that I am already a member of is "Land Rover Campers" and I have a Defender and I'm a member of some other Land Rover groups, but nothing even slightly motorhome related. Nor have I done any googling on Benidorm crime or places to stay on a trip to Spain as it obviously has no relevance to me.
Thoughts?
The company I work for is building one of the most sophisticated speech-to-text-to-speech platforms in the world.
I've played with demos. It is... how shall I put this without getting fired... an exciting prospect which still requires further development.
I have no doubt that it would be desirable for apps to do what you suggest, but unless Facebook are miles ahead of us, it's just not possible with current tech. It would have to track the entire conversation against a forest of background noise, and choose which bits were relevant.
Over and above anything else, you'd have to give the app permission to use the microphone whilst running in the background - and I think only Google Now and Siri (ie native apps to their respective platforms) have that capability. I don't have Facebook on either of my phones so I can't check - I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
Is it more likely that you mentioned Benidorm in a Whatsapp chat or group message with these guys? Facebook has recently, quietly introduced snooping on Whatsapp conversations to serve contextual ads - there's a setting which defaults to "on" in your privacy menu.
I've played with demos. It is... how shall I put this without getting fired... an exciting prospect which still requires further development.
I have no doubt that it would be desirable for apps to do what you suggest, but unless Facebook are miles ahead of us, it's just not possible with current tech. It would have to track the entire conversation against a forest of background noise, and choose which bits were relevant.
Over and above anything else, you'd have to give the app permission to use the microphone whilst running in the background - and I think only Google Now and Siri (ie native apps to their respective platforms) have that capability. I don't have Facebook on either of my phones so I can't check - I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
Is it more likely that you mentioned Benidorm in a Whatsapp chat or group message with these guys? Facebook has recently, quietly introduced snooping on Whatsapp conversations to serve contextual ads - there's a setting which defaults to "on" in your privacy menu.
Funny you should mention this, although my issue is slightly different.
I get on the same train every morning at the same time in the same place and go to the same station in Manchester.
Recently in my "suggested friends" on FB, I noticed a number of faces popping up who were all recognisable from my train. We have no mutual friends and I've never spoken to these people.
So does FB also track trends in terms of where you are and who you are always in the same location as at a certain point of the day and simply match the two together??
Very odd.
I get on the same train every morning at the same time in the same place and go to the same station in Manchester.
Recently in my "suggested friends" on FB, I noticed a number of faces popping up who were all recognisable from my train. We have no mutual friends and I've never spoken to these people.
So does FB also track trends in terms of where you are and who you are always in the same location as at a certain point of the day and simply match the two together??
Very odd.
kapiteinlangzaam said:
IF Ive understood it right?
Is it not possible that mateys (with the motor home) had phones/tablets with them with GeoLocation switched on.... Google/FB etc know this to be YOUR home address, or at least an address you frequent often, therefore your friends are likely with you.
Friends have Googled for campsites and crime problems etc, and therefore FB puts 2+2 together and displays the ADs on your feed.
Still creepy/clever, but nowhere near as tinfoil hat as secretly activating microphones etc.
No, the dinner was at their house, not mine. My phone stayed on my desk all day, so as far as my phone/FB are concerned, I never left my desk. Yes, the OH had her phone out (on the dinner table all night in case the babysitter back at ours needed us). One of the friends at the dinner was a member of the Benidorm crime group thing, but how did FB ever know I was with him that night?Is it not possible that mateys (with the motor home) had phones/tablets with them with GeoLocation switched on.... Google/FB etc know this to be YOUR home address, or at least an address you frequent often, therefore your friends are likely with you.
Friends have Googled for campsites and crime problems etc, and therefore FB puts 2+2 together and displays the ADs on your feed.
Still creepy/clever, but nowhere near as tinfoil hat as secretly activating microphones etc.
Usget said:
Is it more likely that you mentioned Benidorm in a Whatsapp chat or group message with these guys? Facebook has recently, quietly introduced snooping on Whatsapp conversations to serve contextual ads - there's a setting which defaults to "on" in your privacy menu.
No, not possible. I'm in two whatsapp groups with totally different circles of friends. One is our lads's ski trip group, the other is an NCT new Dads' group. Absolutely no commonality/crossover/common members between any of those groups and my retired motorhome friends. And I can genuinely say that I have never googled anything about Benidorm whatsoever.Just seems highly bloody unusual that a topic that has no relevance to me whatsoever comes up in my FB groups an hour after talking about it. I've never spoken about crime in Benidorm ever before and probably never will again. Really odd.
Hard-Drive said:
No, the dinner was at their house, not mine. My phone stayed on my desk all day, so as far as my phone/FB are concerned, I never left my desk. Yes, the OH had her phone out (on the dinner table all night in case the babysitter back at ours needed us). One of the friends at the dinner was a member of the Benidorm crime group thing, but how did FB ever know I was with him that night?
I guess FB assumes you're with your OH. Or if your OH is meeting people who are members of Benidorm groups, you may also be interested in similar things.Usget said:
The company I work for is building one of the most sophisticated speech-to-text-to-speech platforms in the world.
I've played with demos. It is... how shall I put this without getting fired... an exciting prospect which still requires further development.
I have no doubt that it would be desirable for apps to do what you suggest, but unless Facebook are miles ahead of us, it's just not possible with current tech. It would have to track the entire conversation against a forest of background noise, and choose which bits were relevant.
Over and above anything else, you'd have to give the app permission to use the microphone whilst running in the background - and I think only Google Now and Siri (ie native apps to their respective platforms) have that capability. I don't have Facebook on either of my phones so I can't check - I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
Is it more likely that you mentioned Benidorm in a Whatsapp chat or group message with these guys? Facebook has recently, quietly introduced snooping on Whatsapp conversations to serve contextual ads - there's a setting which defaults to "on" in your privacy menu.
I don't think it's that far-fetched. I sell speech analytics technology into contact centres that's pretty accurate at dealing with the customer in the car, background noise in the contact centre, very broad regional accents and even different languages. Bear in mind voice biometrics can tell if someone is who they say they are from a vocal "fingerprint" and can be used either for ID&V in something like financial services or for catching crims and terrorists. Really can't be that hard to pick up 8 people in a domestic dining room, especially if you have geo-located say 5 of those together, and then for who is left cross reference it against a "friends" list of likely candidates.I've played with demos. It is... how shall I put this without getting fired... an exciting prospect which still requires further development.
I have no doubt that it would be desirable for apps to do what you suggest, but unless Facebook are miles ahead of us, it's just not possible with current tech. It would have to track the entire conversation against a forest of background noise, and choose which bits were relevant.
Over and above anything else, you'd have to give the app permission to use the microphone whilst running in the background - and I think only Google Now and Siri (ie native apps to their respective platforms) have that capability. I don't have Facebook on either of my phones so I can't check - I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
Is it more likely that you mentioned Benidorm in a Whatsapp chat or group message with these guys? Facebook has recently, quietly introduced snooping on Whatsapp conversations to serve contextual ads - there's a setting which defaults to "on" in your privacy menu.
My "People you might know" keeps asking if I want to be friends with a woman whom I dealt with at work, 3.5 years ago, and the only reason I think it knows this is because my boss at the time text me whilst I was on holiday asking where the details for this woman were on my desk so he could make contact with her - so yes, it clearly read all my phone text messages and saw the "do you know where X's details are?" from way back then, and decided that was sufficient to suggest we be friends.
Still, there are bigger problems in the world for me to worry about.
Still, there are bigger problems in the world for me to worry about.
55palfers said:
I'm with the OP. I suspect there is far more going on with FB, Apple, Google, et al than meets the eye.
It kind of amazes me that many people don't think there is. Clearly with FB the users are the product and the advertisers are the customers (ie the ones paying the money). I'm no tin foil hatter but I'm always surprised just how much information about their lives some people put on FB. I've not seen the "what's your pron name" one for a while but that's a great way to harvest peoples additional bank security details. A while back I found people were playing a "game" than consisted of typing in the responses to Captcha codes... a) how is that fun? and b) seriously, what do you think they're doing with that information?
Foliage said:
Paranoia teamed up with Baader Meinhof
Haha! But I'm not one of these paranoid conspiracy theorists. I use gmail for home and work (which is about as "open" and snooped on as you can get). I use Chrome as my browser (ditto) and personally I no problem whatsoever if GCHQ want to record my conversations or snoop in my mail...I have nothing to hide and if the powers that be can use that tech to stop the next terrorist nutjob event then good on them. FFS I have posted pictures of my self-build house all over PH so I'm pretty "open" in the digital world.But how on earth do I have two conversations, of no real relevance to me, neither of which I have ever had before and never will again, about one friend looking for free places to park a motorhome in Europe, and another wishing to avoid crime scams in a Spanish town, and then "blam" there are two exact groups waiting in my feed for me when I get home?
I get that as a member of "Land Rover Defender" it's logical that it might suggest "Land Rover bits for sale". As a member of "Porsche Boxster" it might mention "Classic 911s". But where the hell did it get "Crime in Benidorm" from within 1 hour as there is no connection whatsoever unless it's somehow being overly snoopy? And surely it would be suggesting baby activity groups (that my o/h and her friends are members of) or horsey groups (ditto, lots of commonality there for here but of no interest to me). But no, it came up with stuff of zero relevance that I'd had a conversation about an hour earlier...
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