Britsh pensions among lowest
Discussion
simpo two said:
Just off the news: Britsh pensions are among the lowest of any developed nation.
Could that be partly because (a) the funds are now taxed and (b) we keep handing billions to Africa?
Soon the chickens must come home to roost I think.
They are of course referring to the basic state pension-which has only risen in line with inflation since the 1980's.
Britain has far greater private pension provision that alot of Developed countries.
The Labour government has brought in additional benefits for pensioners below a certain income.
Given that this effectively scr**s you for having made provision for your retirement I would prefer that this money be spent on a higher state pension for all.
>> Edited by Jaglover on Saturday 12th March 09:20
Jaglover said:
simpo two said:
Just off the news: Britsh pensions are among the lowest of any developed nation.
Could that be partly because (a) the funds are now taxed and (b) we keep handing billions to Africa?
Soon the chickens must come home to roost I think.
They are of course referring to the basic state pension-which has only risen in line with inflation since the 1980's.
Britain has far greater private pension provision that alot of Developed countries.
The Labour government has brought in additional benefits for pensioners below a certain income.
Given that this effectively scr**s you for having made provision for your retirement I would prefer that this money be spent on a higher state pension for all.
>> Edited by Jaglover on Saturday 12th March 09:20
scerario 1:
my grandmother saves all her life from her wage as a community nurse and retires at 60 (1980) on state pension and a small nurses pension (worked part time and gave up for a while to have children). she has savings a few pounds above the limit and her income was assessed at 20p per week too high to get any kind of benefits at all - so she pays for her false teeth, her medicines etc
scenario 2:
her next door neighbour has no pension or savings yet worked as a shipbuilder all his life (a well paid job in this part of scotland) retired at 65 (1982) and has his state pension + benefits topped up to £15 a week more than my grandmother.
can't be right can it? an incentive to blow all your money and not be frugal and provide for yourself in old age? all farked up IMHO.
*I know this info to be fact, my GM and her neighbour have been close friends for 35 years
>> Edited by minimax on Saturday 12th March 09:30
The pensions scandal is ludicrous. While directors can shuffle money around their pension pots buying art, classic cars and whatever takes their fancy. Ordinary PAYE employees have to have pension funds administrated, for this task we select thieves. Not content with watching most of the profits being creamed off during the 40 or so years the fund is being built, the government then insist that pension funds cannot be managed by individuals, oh no you cant trust an ordinary citizen with their own money. You must purchase and annuity and guess what? It must be bought from yet another criminal. Do these people have to make complex predictions about lifespan and investment futures for a small fee off the top? No they are allowed to rip you off as well provided the government gets its hands on the remainders once the beneficiaries have died early due to stress caused by it all 
I would agree with you NoneGreen that the requirement to purchase an annuity should be amended.
People should be required to buy an annuity that ensures that they will not need income support benefits and do what they like with the rest of the money.
There was a Private members bill about this (Tory) that Labour blocked-I'm not entirely sure why-unless it was simply to be bl**dy minded.
People should be required to buy an annuity that ensures that they will not need income support benefits and do what they like with the rest of the money.
There was a Private members bill about this (Tory) that Labour blocked-I'm not entirely sure why-unless it was simply to be bl**dy minded.
Top post nonegreen, couldn't have put it better.
The problem is that people are generally ignorant about their pension providers and are generally too trusting.
Many thought that following the Daily Mirror / Maxwell scandal that the Government had closed all the loopholes and their pension funds were now secure whatever happened to the company.
If only!
The problem is that people are generally ignorant about their pension providers and are generally too trusting.
Many thought that following the Daily Mirror / Maxwell scandal that the Government had closed all the loopholes and their pension funds were now secure whatever happened to the company.
If only!
State Pensions? we are screwed whatever happens.
I'm 31 now, and I seriously dont think that by the time i'm 65 there will be a state pension. I really think that in years to come the money i put into a state pension will be stolen from me by a future theiving govt.
Hence, i'm not topping up my state pension, i'm shoving all my spare cash into property.
I'm 31 now, and I seriously dont think that by the time i'm 65 there will be a state pension. I really think that in years to come the money i put into a state pension will be stolen from me by a future theiving govt.
Hence, i'm not topping up my state pension, i'm shoving all my spare cash into property.
nonegreen if you really wanted to manage your own pension you could do, invest in shares property etc via a self invested personal pension plan.
re the annuity thing you don't have to purchase one until 75 and with the new pension legislation you will be able to keep your monies invested and draw an income from it.
there is investor protection around, granted some people have suffered from being in the wrong place at the wrong time investment wise, but can that not be said of housing (the supposed great white hope of providing an income in retirement)
You'll find our european cousins whilst having "good" pension benefits are now finding like us that the state cannot afford to pay for them.
re the annuity thing you don't have to purchase one until 75 and with the new pension legislation you will be able to keep your monies invested and draw an income from it.
there is investor protection around, granted some people have suffered from being in the wrong place at the wrong time investment wise, but can that not be said of housing (the supposed great white hope of providing an income in retirement)
You'll find our european cousins whilst having "good" pension benefits are now finding like us that the state cannot afford to pay for them.
We've found ourselves in a bit of a quandary so far as Labour and tax goes.
Two years ago, my grandad passed away. He had been a taxman, so he obviously paid all his taxes and was prudent with money. The money he received from the government had obviously been taxed already, and he did his best to save what he could.
Now, we're having trouble sorting out his savings because - get this - due to inheritance tax, the government are taking a chunk of it back, and if my Grandma wants to distribute it to anyone, there's further tax to pay. We figured that if we did it all 'legitimately', we'd only gain access to 40% of his already heavily-taxed savings. So as a result, my Grandma's had to withdraw the lot.
There you have it - the government would rather take 60% of an old man's already heavily-taxed hard-earned and force a woman in her eighties to carry around pockets full of notes, than they would just to leave us alone with the money he intended us to use.
The way this government treats the elderly and anyone connected to them is a total farce. I wouldn't be surprised if people started putting their money in offshore accounts en masse if they carry on.
Two years ago, my grandad passed away. He had been a taxman, so he obviously paid all his taxes and was prudent with money. The money he received from the government had obviously been taxed already, and he did his best to save what he could.
Now, we're having trouble sorting out his savings because - get this - due to inheritance tax, the government are taking a chunk of it back, and if my Grandma wants to distribute it to anyone, there's further tax to pay. We figured that if we did it all 'legitimately', we'd only gain access to 40% of his already heavily-taxed savings. So as a result, my Grandma's had to withdraw the lot.
There you have it - the government would rather take 60% of an old man's already heavily-taxed hard-earned and force a woman in her eighties to carry around pockets full of notes, than they would just to leave us alone with the money he intended us to use.
The way this government treats the elderly and anyone connected to them is a total farce. I wouldn't be surprised if people started putting their money in offshore accounts en masse if they carry on.
v8thunder said:
We've found ourselves in a bit of a quandary so far as Labour and tax goes.
Two years ago, my grandad passed away. He had been a taxman, so he obviously paid all his taxes and was prudent with money. The money he received from the government had obviously been taxed already, and he did his best to save what he could.
Now, we're having trouble sorting out his savings because - get this - due to inheritance tax, the government are taking a chunk of it back, and if my Grandma wants to distribute it to anyone, there's further tax to pay. We figured that if we did it all 'legitimately', we'd only gain access to 40% of his already heavily-taxed savings. So as a result, my Grandma's had to withdraw the lot.
There you have it - the government would rather take 60% of an old man's already heavily-taxed hard-earned and force a woman in her eighties to carry around pockets full of notes, than they would just to leave us alone with the money he intended us to use.
The way this government treats the elderly and anyone connected to them is a total farce. I wouldn't be surprised if people started putting their money in offshore accounts en masse if they carry on.
Due to the rise in property prices alot more people are being drawn into the inheritance tax net-It used to be a tax which affected only the rich-who employed accountants to make sure they paid the least amount possible.
v8thunder said:
We've found ourselves in a bit of a quandary so far as Labour and tax goes.
Two years ago, my grandad passed away. He had been a taxman, so he obviously paid all his taxes and was prudent with money. The money he received from the government had obviously been taxed already, and he did his best to save what he could.
Now, we're having trouble sorting out his savings because - get this - due to inheritance tax, the government are taking a chunk of it back, and if my Grandma wants to distribute it to anyone, there's further tax to pay. We figured that if we did it all 'legitimately', we'd only gain access to 40% of his already heavily-taxed savings. So as a result, my Grandma's had to withdraw the lot.
There you have it - the government would rather take 60% of an old man's already heavily-taxed hard-earned and force a woman in her eighties to carry around pockets full of notes, than they would just to leave us alone with the money he intended us to use.
The way this government treats the elderly and anyone connected to them is a total farce. I wouldn't be surprised if people started putting their money in offshore accounts en masse if they carry on.
IHT is without doubt THE must unjustifiable tax of them all.
In Germany and France its 5% and in Italy it doesnt exist at all.
Taxation in this country is out of control.
Plotloss said:
IHT is without doubt THE must unjustifiable tax of them all.
In Germany and France its 5% and in Italy it doesnt exist at all.
Taxation in this country is out of control.
Or alternatively it is the most justified since it taxes income not earnt by the person themselves and helps to eliminate inherited differences in wealth.
There are different ways of looking at it Plotloss
JagLover said:
Or alternatively it is the most justified since it taxes income not earnt by the person themselves and helps to eliminate inherited differences in wealth.
What's wrong with differences in inherited wealth? You can't have a socialist utopia where everyone is equal.
If your family had worked hard for decades and you were in line for £1M, why shouldn't you have it?
How about if *you've* worked hard for decades and have £1M - you'd want it to go to your children and grandchildren, not HM Government surely?
Note that the tax the Government receives is unearned income. They take it because they can, and put you in prison if you don't hand it over.
A Government needs tax revenue in order to fund it's activities.
In my view taxing inherited wealth has the advantge of not reducing the incentive to work-which is the impact of much governemnt taxation.
The rate of Inheritence tax needs to be reduced so there is less incentive to evade it-probabale to around 20%.
In my view taxing inherited wealth has the advantge of not reducing the incentive to work-which is the impact of much governemnt taxation.
The rate of Inheritence tax needs to be reduced so there is less incentive to evade it-probabale to around 20%.
Plotloss said:
IHT is without doubt THE must unjustifiable tax of them all.
In Germany and France its 5% and in Italy it doesnt exist at all.
Taxation in this country is out of control.
IHT in France is of the order of 40% from one generation to the next. Pensions are higher than in the UK, but the system is running straight towards a demographic brick wall around 2020 - something that the UK have done well to avoid, albeit unfairly in many cases.
Italy has even higher pensions - perverse for a country that is largely too badly organised financially to collect taxes. They are going to be a nightmare for the Euro, given that they can no longer rub 3 zeros off their currency every decade to avoid a coffee costing 15 squillion.
The largely underfunded European pension costs are actually another good reason for the UK to stay out of the Euro in my opinion.
The biggest screw up in the UK system was Brown raping the pension fund tax relief, though the means testing system that incentivises people to spend it all quick must come a close second.
v8thunder said:
There you have it - the government would rather take 60% of an old man's already heavily-taxed hard-earned and force a woman in her eighties to carry around pockets full of notes, than they would just to leave us alone with the money he intended us to use.
I know I will reget asking this but how can you get to the position that you pay the government 60% tax on inheritance?
IHT is 40% and you pay nothing on the first £263k anyway
nel said:
The biggest screw up in the UK system was Brown raping the pension fund tax relief, though the means testing system that incentivises people to spend it all quick must come a close second.
You have forgotton the other thing which is also indirectly linked to Labour and that is the FSA requiring alot of these pension funds to hold more and more of their money in bonds.
Overtime this will drastically reduce the returns of pension funds.
>> Edited by JagLover on Monday 14th March 14:51
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