Fear of Flying
Discussion
After developing a fear of flying over a number of years after what I saw as bad in flight experiences I have refused to fly for the last 7 years. Even turned down a free trip to see the OH's family in OZ, she went on her own.
A big family wedding in Rome last week forced me to confront this fear and I took a return flight from Bristol to Rome.
I now have a young family and did not want them to miss out on experiences because of my fear and had other family and friends on the same flight, it was now or never.
Over the years I have tried to understand what exactly I feared and at times felt I was over it. You can't be sure until you are actually on that plane again which was always the problem.
What have I learnt? That I enjoy the take-off and landing!! What I don't like is the airport experience, the waiting at the gate, being strapped into that sausage with all those other people with nothing to do. Don't get me wrong, I am still reluctant to fly again but the fear has gone and I won't let it stop me in the future.
Anyway feeling quite pleased with myself and am now thinking about what adventures are next for me and the family.
Anyone else have this fear or have a story how they overcame it?
A big family wedding in Rome last week forced me to confront this fear and I took a return flight from Bristol to Rome.
I now have a young family and did not want them to miss out on experiences because of my fear and had other family and friends on the same flight, it was now or never.
Over the years I have tried to understand what exactly I feared and at times felt I was over it. You can't be sure until you are actually on that plane again which was always the problem.
What have I learnt? That I enjoy the take-off and landing!! What I don't like is the airport experience, the waiting at the gate, being strapped into that sausage with all those other people with nothing to do. Don't get me wrong, I am still reluctant to fly again but the fear has gone and I won't let it stop me in the future.
Anyway feeling quite pleased with myself and am now thinking about what adventures are next for me and the family.
Anyone else have this fear or have a story how they overcame it?
Congrats on overcoming your fear especially for the benefit of your family, good man.
Our neighbours are reasonably well to do but last time I was chatting to the man of house about holidays he told me that they never go away because his wife is scared of flying. I suggested courses and if possible sticking her in business class to go to Florida! It really does make flying tolerable.
I've flown since my age could be measured in months so it's never troubled me. As I've gotten older I have never developed a fear of flying but I too f
king hate airports and the boarding process mostly because people seem to check their brains in with their bags! On a serious note though if flying still worries you somewhat a number of airlines do fear of flying courses which sound a bit crap but I'm reliably informed are very good.
I work in the industry so I'm one of those bores that will tell you it's safe as houses, yada yada yada, but I get why people are worried about shooting around in an explosive filled sardine can. Tbh I think of a lot of fear of flying isn't fear of flying at all, it's claustrophobia of sorts.
Our neighbours are reasonably well to do but last time I was chatting to the man of house about holidays he told me that they never go away because his wife is scared of flying. I suggested courses and if possible sticking her in business class to go to Florida! It really does make flying tolerable.
I've flown since my age could be measured in months so it's never troubled me. As I've gotten older I have never developed a fear of flying but I too f
king hate airports and the boarding process mostly because people seem to check their brains in with their bags! On a serious note though if flying still worries you somewhat a number of airlines do fear of flying courses which sound a bit crap but I'm reliably informed are very good. I work in the industry so I'm one of those bores that will tell you it's safe as houses, yada yada yada, but I get why people are worried about shooting around in an explosive filled sardine can. Tbh I think of a lot of fear of flying isn't fear of flying at all, it's claustrophobia of sorts.
djc206 said:
it's claustrophobia of sorts.
That and being out of control I think. I'm happy to fly but find the complexity of airports so daunting that I only fly if I have someone to follow. I avoid train travel too. In fact I avoid all public transport. I am much happpier in my car when I have control of my own destiny and can go a bit faster if I'm late.astroarcadia said:
What have I learnt? That I enjoy the take-off and landing!! What I don't like is the airport experience, the waiting at the gate, being strapped into that sausage with all those other people with nothing to do.
You sound like me. I love flying (as in takeoff, getting up to altitude, getting a drink & watching a film, seeing the world from on high & descending to land), but hate airports, long boarding processes, being forced through duty free, overpriced shops, long queues, the inevitable annoying fellow passengers and the hundredweight of hand luggage everyone seems to bring & have to stow. The novelty of all the good stuff above also wears off within a few hours, so inevitably you spend a couple of hours on a long flight feeling bored stiff & being desperate to land and get off.Have you tried going for a flight in something smaller? Something like a Loganair/FlyBe flight from Glasgow to one of the Hebrides (try Barra!) would probably be good fun for you, failing that, get a passenger ride or taster flying lesson in a 4 seater at your local flying club?
If you want to try a more formal fear of flying course, EasyJet & BA offer them - https://fearlessflyer.easyjet.com/ and http://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/information/tr... - there are probably others.
Interesting subject and one that I can relate to. As someone said earlier, the inability to have any kind of influence (grabbing the wheel, opening the door and jumping out of a car) is what my main issue was. I was a reluctant air traveler earlier in my life.
What changed things fundamentally for me was a client hospitality experience I arranged at an ad agency I worked at in the early 90's. Inspired by the TV show, The Krypton Factor, I rented two days use of (what was then) British Caledonian Flight Training's MD80 flight simulator at Gatwick.
We had a whole bunch of clients and prospects who all had a chance to take off/climb out from an airport of their choice (anywhere) and land wherever they chose - each persons seat-time being about 30 minutes - all under the guidance of a training pilot. Needless to say, I wangled a slot for me and a couple of colleagues too - and we video-taped all of it.
Aside from winning us a stload of new business, it had another huge benefit for me personally. I got to see first-hand how much safety/redundancy is built into even an old clunker of an MD80. At one point the sim was programmed to cause a compressor stall engine failure at V2 with a fully laden, fully fueled take off from La Guardia (out over Flushing Bay).
"We take the problem into the air" being the attitude - the aircraft behaved pretty much normally on one engine. There is so much double and triple coverage of systems that only multi-factorial, conspiring issues cause serious problems - and they are so ridiculously rare that I just couldn't rationally worry about them thereafter.
It's a good thing really, because my work life is now dominated by air travel. I conservatively fly 300 cycles (single or connecting flights) per year - pretty much every work day. Obviously familiarity also creates ambivalence - the more you do it the less of an issue it becomes.
There are things you can do to minimize the hell of the airport experience - probably the biggest one for me is physically living close to my home airport - and utilizing resources called Clear and PreCheck, meaning I can leave my home with carry-on (not checked) bag and be at the departure gate in the space of 15-20 minutes maximum. (all this is US based - not sure if similar programs exist in the UK).
What changed things fundamentally for me was a client hospitality experience I arranged at an ad agency I worked at in the early 90's. Inspired by the TV show, The Krypton Factor, I rented two days use of (what was then) British Caledonian Flight Training's MD80 flight simulator at Gatwick.
We had a whole bunch of clients and prospects who all had a chance to take off/climb out from an airport of their choice (anywhere) and land wherever they chose - each persons seat-time being about 30 minutes - all under the guidance of a training pilot. Needless to say, I wangled a slot for me and a couple of colleagues too - and we video-taped all of it.
Aside from winning us a s
tload of new business, it had another huge benefit for me personally. I got to see first-hand how much safety/redundancy is built into even an old clunker of an MD80. At one point the sim was programmed to cause a compressor stall engine failure at V2 with a fully laden, fully fueled take off from La Guardia (out over Flushing Bay)."We take the problem into the air" being the attitude - the aircraft behaved pretty much normally on one engine. There is so much double and triple coverage of systems that only multi-factorial, conspiring issues cause serious problems - and they are so ridiculously rare that I just couldn't rationally worry about them thereafter.
It's a good thing really, because my work life is now dominated by air travel. I conservatively fly 300 cycles (single or connecting flights) per year - pretty much every work day. Obviously familiarity also creates ambivalence - the more you do it the less of an issue it becomes.
There are things you can do to minimize the hell of the airport experience - probably the biggest one for me is physically living close to my home airport - and utilizing resources called Clear and PreCheck, meaning I can leave my home with carry-on (not checked) bag and be at the departure gate in the space of 15-20 minutes maximum. (all this is US based - not sure if similar programs exist in the UK).
Edited by Matt Harper on Friday 23 September 17:51
KTF said:
My brothers wife allegedly has a fear of flying. However when someone else pays for the ticket she can tolerate it...
Its a shame as their kids are going to miss out and I hope she doesn't pass the fear on to them.
Sat next to my four year old boy before take-off asking me which Thunderbird I wanted to be made me realise fear is learnt and only my unhelpful thoughts had fed this fear. Its a shame as their kids are going to miss out and I hope she doesn't pass the fear on to them.
its not the flying thats the problem but its the whole other rubbish thats put in to the mix.
airports - where do i start ?
Went to Vienna for a weekend just past.....
All started with the parking at stuipd oclock at a car park near to Edinburgh. Spaces were absolutely tiny. Parked up and then thought you know Im going to come back to a dunkled door.... goat right up. pack em in mentality. Coach from car park to terminal. packed in and suitcases on seats. so had to stand. well I thought about it then moved the suitcases to the floor and sat down. ned starts to kick off. what you doing touching my case ? what you doing putting it on a seat.
got to airport, checked in, turned out that they had only allowed for one case, so my case was questioned as mrs had already checked her case in ? Like give me strength. talked to check in and they talked to boss who called someone and then it was okay, they allowed it. obvious mistake on travel agents part.
so up and through security - line up and then the rigmarole of shoes off belt off and all things metal removed. items xrayed and then put back on. absolutely nissed off now. through to gate and then sat waiting. clown next to me spills his coffee.
On to plane well via walking down stairs across apron and up a set of steps to plane and wait on everyone loading overheads before finally getting to seat.
hate flying. hate it totally. like its just a crap experience indeed.
airports - where do i start ?
Went to Vienna for a weekend just past.....
All started with the parking at stuipd oclock at a car park near to Edinburgh. Spaces were absolutely tiny. Parked up and then thought you know Im going to come back to a dunkled door.... goat right up. pack em in mentality. Coach from car park to terminal. packed in and suitcases on seats. so had to stand. well I thought about it then moved the suitcases to the floor and sat down. ned starts to kick off. what you doing touching my case ? what you doing putting it on a seat.
got to airport, checked in, turned out that they had only allowed for one case, so my case was questioned as mrs had already checked her case in ? Like give me strength. talked to check in and they talked to boss who called someone and then it was okay, they allowed it. obvious mistake on travel agents part.
so up and through security - line up and then the rigmarole of shoes off belt off and all things metal removed. items xrayed and then put back on. absolutely nissed off now. through to gate and then sat waiting. clown next to me spills his coffee.
On to plane well via walking down stairs across apron and up a set of steps to plane and wait on everyone loading overheads before finally getting to seat.
hate flying. hate it totally. like its just a crap experience indeed.
I used to be alright with flying, then 3 or 4 turbulent flights followed by an utterly terrible one on the way back from a family holiday to California and I have been terrified ever since (we had to stop for 2hrs in Winnipeg for "electrical checks" which involved flying near a storm, the turbulence was horrific).
I forced myself to go on a flight to Amsterdam which at 45mins meant the panic was over quickly then 7yrs ago I went to Toronto with a friend and that was a fine flight and the cabin crew were very nice as I sweated through it.
However I've not been on a plane since, due to life I had anxiety attacks which I have since managed to get over, but with flying or thinking about flying the symptoms return. It's stopping me seeing the world which I'd actually love to do, especially the USA/Canada again.
I dislike not being in control and despise heights, for note I am fine with trains/boats/buses and obviously cars, I much prefer being connected to the ground/water
Has anyone been on one of those courses the airlines do? I'm considering doing them as a help to the probable "mtfu" side of it.
I forced myself to go on a flight to Amsterdam which at 45mins meant the panic was over quickly then 7yrs ago I went to Toronto with a friend and that was a fine flight and the cabin crew were very nice as I sweated through it.
However I've not been on a plane since, due to life I had anxiety attacks which I have since managed to get over, but with flying or thinking about flying the symptoms return. It's stopping me seeing the world which I'd actually love to do, especially the USA/Canada again.
I dislike not being in control and despise heights, for note I am fine with trains/boats/buses and obviously cars, I much prefer being connected to the ground/water
Has anyone been on one of those courses the airlines do? I'm considering doing them as a help to the probable "mtfu" side of it.
Aircraft these days have much more sophisticated weather radar and will go out of their way to avoid turbulence if at all possible. Even if they do fly into some, its way within the designed limits.
If you are nervous, watch the crew. If they start bricking it then something really is up
If they are wondering around like nothing is going on then its fine as they have seen it all (and worse) before as they fly a lot more than you do.
From what I have seen on the TV the courses have a Pilot in the cabin who gives a full commentary on every single thing that is going on - that noise is the flaps extending, that noise is the gear going up, its windy so it will move around a bit and so on - as a lot of people seem to get paniced by all the 'strange' noises.
At the end of the day remember that the people in the pointy end (bar one it seemed) do actually want to get home in the evening as well.
Even on the ground, you still get people wondering what the 'barking' (hydraulic pump) sound is on the airbus when they get back to the stand.
If you are nervous, watch the crew. If they start bricking it then something really is up
If they are wondering around like nothing is going on then its fine as they have seen it all (and worse) before as they fly a lot more than you do.From what I have seen on the TV the courses have a Pilot in the cabin who gives a full commentary on every single thing that is going on - that noise is the flaps extending, that noise is the gear going up, its windy so it will move around a bit and so on - as a lot of people seem to get paniced by all the 'strange' noises.
At the end of the day remember that the people in the pointy end (bar one it seemed) do actually want to get home in the evening as well.
Even on the ground, you still get people wondering what the 'barking' (hydraulic pump) sound is on the airbus when they get back to the stand.
Edited by KTF on Friday 23 September 10:57
KTF said:
If you are nervous, watch the crew.
Generally good advice..but not always: I was on a flight a decade ago that tried to but couldn't land on Santorini, we had to go on to Mykonos. One of the hostesses on the flight was crying strapped in her seat. The others were too busy dodging flying food items, trays etc as the aircraft rolled and dropped. Some passengers found it amusing, some couples were holding hands and saying goodbye. my OH won't fly.
she used to fairly regularly including long haul with no problems. then she had a couple of bad experiences in close succession, the last one being an engine failure with some bad turbulence thrown in. cue passengers in panic, lots of praying, the guy next to her telling her he knew he was going to die etc....
she genuinely fears flying now. she did take a trip shortly after but then vowed 'never again' due to the stress of the experience. i fly regularly and she won't sleep until she knows i have landed safely.
its a real shame as she is well travelled and is otherwise adventurous and confident. just any mention of my business trips put her into worry mode. even a family emergency isn't enough to have her fly, her quickest route back home now being a 2 week journey by sea and a 2000 mile drive.
i even offered to have my mate [major airline training captain] talk to her about the practicalities of engine failure, safety measures etc. and then get his flying rota so we could take a trip together with him at the controls. she thought this was a thoughtful and logical idea, but still said no. she is certain that the next flight she gets on will result in catastrophe.
strangely, helicopters are ok by her. work that one out.
taking a genuine interest in this thread as our location means holiday options by road are limited at best.
she used to fairly regularly including long haul with no problems. then she had a couple of bad experiences in close succession, the last one being an engine failure with some bad turbulence thrown in. cue passengers in panic, lots of praying, the guy next to her telling her he knew he was going to die etc....
she genuinely fears flying now. she did take a trip shortly after but then vowed 'never again' due to the stress of the experience. i fly regularly and she won't sleep until she knows i have landed safely.
its a real shame as she is well travelled and is otherwise adventurous and confident. just any mention of my business trips put her into worry mode. even a family emergency isn't enough to have her fly, her quickest route back home now being a 2 week journey by sea and a 2000 mile drive.
i even offered to have my mate [major airline training captain] talk to her about the practicalities of engine failure, safety measures etc. and then get his flying rota so we could take a trip together with him at the controls. she thought this was a thoughtful and logical idea, but still said no. she is certain that the next flight she gets on will result in catastrophe.
strangely, helicopters are ok by her. work that one out.
taking a genuine interest in this thread as our location means holiday options by road are limited at best.
On the recent program about ATC on BBC2, one of the airline pilots (and I paraphrase here) said something along the lines of he would never be keen of going up in a private plane as it was deemed too 'risky' - single engine, only one guy at the controls, they can fly around wherever/whenever they like (within reason) etc.
I would imagine that there are a lot more crashes involving private planes (and helicopters) than commercial stuff. Its just that when commercial stuff goes down the numbers are bigger.
I would imagine that there are a lot more crashes involving private planes (and helicopters) than commercial stuff. Its just that when commercial stuff goes down the numbers are bigger.
TommoAE86 said:
I used to be alright with flying, then 3 or 4 turbulent flights followed by an utterly terrible one on the way back from a family holiday to California and I have been terrified ever since (we had to stop for 2hrs in Winnipeg for "electrical checks" which involved flying near a storm, the turbulence was horrific).
I forced myself to go on a flight to Amsterdam which at 45mins meant the panic was over quickly then 7yrs ago I went to Toronto with a friend and that was a fine flight and the cabin crew were very nice as I sweated through it.
However I've not been on a plane since, due to life I had anxiety attacks which I have since managed to get over, but with flying or thinking about flying the symptoms return. It's stopping me seeing the world which I'd actually love to do, especially the USA/Canada again.
I dislike not being in control and despise heights, for note I am fine with trains/boats/buses and obviously cars, I much prefer being connected to the ground/water
Has anyone been on one of those courses the airlines do? I'm considering doing them as a help to the probable "mtfu" side of it.
This was me 100% the anxiety, the control. A few rough flights, a double go-around and I was done with flying. I had seen enough of the world to not feel I was missing out. That feeling has now gone and I would love to visit North America again. I forced myself to go on a flight to Amsterdam which at 45mins meant the panic was over quickly then 7yrs ago I went to Toronto with a friend and that was a fine flight and the cabin crew were very nice as I sweated through it.
However I've not been on a plane since, due to life I had anxiety attacks which I have since managed to get over, but with flying or thinking about flying the symptoms return. It's stopping me seeing the world which I'd actually love to do, especially the USA/Canada again.
I dislike not being in control and despise heights, for note I am fine with trains/boats/buses and obviously cars, I much prefer being connected to the ground/water
Has anyone been on one of those courses the airlines do? I'm considering doing them as a help to the probable "mtfu" side of it.
Diazepam is good to have in your pocket as an insurance policy should you feel the fear creep back in at the airport. Used correctly it is an amazing drug.
I'm actually much better in smaller craft. My last trip before "retiring" was to the Phillippines. Long haul with Qatar on a brand new Airbus terrified me. An internal flight from Manila to Palawan landing on beach was great fun. The pilot was smoking the windows open and sat behind the pilot I could watch him navigate around heavy clouds.
A true sense of flying.
Family member is a retired psychiatrist, was telling me about one of his patients from many years ago who had a strange experience on a flight and went to him for advice.
He had an awful life-long fear of flying, but for work reasons had to take a flight. He had spent the whole flight sweating buckets and being on the brink of a panic attack, until they started their descent - and the engines suddenly cut out! Plane was losing altitude, people panicking/crying, alarms going off, etc.
He said that the instant that happened, he suddenly felt more relaxed than he could remember being for years. He said he was so calm he nearly fell asleep...
Turns out, as some people have said above, it wasn't the fear of crashing/dying that was the problem. He had social anxiety/claustrophobia and being enclosed with 100 other people, he felt like they were watching every move he made - if he did anything wrong/embarrassing, everyone would see! The example he gave (which psychiatrist relative told me is extremely common) is "What if I need the toilet but there's a queue and I soil myself and everyone sees".
But when everyone else was busy panicking, nobody cared about what he was doing - instant relief!
The plane was OK by the way, otherwise my relative would have to be a psychic not a psychiatrist.
My wife has similar issues, but not nearly as bad. More like a strong discomfort/dislike of waiting, being surrounded by lots of people, enclosed in the plane, questioned by security, etc.
She took Diazepam a couple of times (most GPs will be happy to prescribe it, I think) and it was pretty effective. She described it as "I still didn't like it, but it felt like I was too tired to think about anything bad happening".
Word of warning though - she was pretty "out of it" while on diazepam. It's not one to take if you need to drive or be productive.
He had an awful life-long fear of flying, but for work reasons had to take a flight. He had spent the whole flight sweating buckets and being on the brink of a panic attack, until they started their descent - and the engines suddenly cut out! Plane was losing altitude, people panicking/crying, alarms going off, etc.
He said that the instant that happened, he suddenly felt more relaxed than he could remember being for years. He said he was so calm he nearly fell asleep...
Turns out, as some people have said above, it wasn't the fear of crashing/dying that was the problem. He had social anxiety/claustrophobia and being enclosed with 100 other people, he felt like they were watching every move he made - if he did anything wrong/embarrassing, everyone would see! The example he gave (which psychiatrist relative told me is extremely common) is "What if I need the toilet but there's a queue and I soil myself and everyone sees".
But when everyone else was busy panicking, nobody cared about what he was doing - instant relief!
The plane was OK by the way, otherwise my relative would have to be a psychic not a psychiatrist.
My wife has similar issues, but not nearly as bad. More like a strong discomfort/dislike of waiting, being surrounded by lots of people, enclosed in the plane, questioned by security, etc.
She took Diazepam a couple of times (most GPs will be happy to prescribe it, I think) and it was pretty effective. She described it as "I still didn't like it, but it felt like I was too tired to think about anything bad happening".
Word of warning though - she was pretty "out of it" while on diazepam. It's not one to take if you need to drive or be productive.
I used to love flying (from an early age onwards) - as I've gotten older I've disliked it more and more. The whole airport thing I've got no issues with - perversely the worst bit for me tends to be take-off, so I just try and close my eyes and sleep for the taxi and initial off (once we're over a few hundred metres I'm ok-ish).
Stupidly the other thing that worries me a little (though not enough to put me off flying) is the whole 'being blown out of the sky' thing
Stupidly the other thing that worries me a little (though not enough to put me off flying) is the whole 'being blown out of the sky' thing
The Diazepam just wipes away that top layer of fear/heightened sense. You still function but with an air of "who gives a sh*t"
If you have an uncomfortable flight at a time you are struggling with other issues - stress, relationships - the whole flying experience can trigger the same emotions you felt previously. It's not always a fear of flying per say, you are just re-visit the same emotional state you were in last time you flew.
I had even done a skydive in Switzerland but still feared the relative security of Qatar Airways with their shiny fleet and hot towels.
If you have an uncomfortable flight at a time you are struggling with other issues - stress, relationships - the whole flying experience can trigger the same emotions you felt previously. It's not always a fear of flying per say, you are just re-visit the same emotional state you were in last time you flew.
I had even done a skydive in Switzerland but still feared the relative security of Qatar Airways with their shiny fleet and hot towels.
irocfan said:
I used to love flying (from an early age onwards) - as I've gotten older I've disliked it more and more. The whole airport thing I've got no issues with - perversely the worst bit for me tends to be take-off, so I just try and close my eyes and sleep for the taxi and initial off (once we're over a few hundred metres I'm ok-ish).
Stupidly the other thing that worries me a little (though not enough to put me off flying) is the whole 'being blown out of the sky' thing
Similar for me.Stupidly the other thing that worries me a little (though not enough to put me off flying) is the whole 'being blown out of the sky' thing
I'm normally quite a rational person, but 5 seconds into take-off my thought process is: "WE'RE NOT GOING FAST ENOUGH! NOT ENOUGH FLAPS! WHAT IF THERE'S TURBULENCE OR WIND REALLY LOW DOWN AND WE SLAM INTO THE GROUND! IF THE ENGINES CUT OUT NOW THERE'S NOT ENOUGH ALTITUDE TO TURN AROUND FOR A LANDING! RATE OF CLIMB IS TOO HIGH IT'S GOING TO STALL AND WE'RE TOO CLOSE TO THE GROUND TO CORRECT IT!"
But during the flight - bliss! No phonecalls/emails/work to deal with. You can just sit back like a slob and watch movies you've downloaded to your tablet while people in uniforms bring you food.
Unless there's turbulence, then it's certain death again until it's over.
Then landing - certain death once again.
So a typical flight for me is made up of about 9 hours of bliss and 10 minutes of doom
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