996 GT3 Spec Advice
Discussion
Hi All
So after a few years of being Porscheless and having had a 996 GT2 and then 996.1 GT3 in the past I'm getting the urge to buy one again.
Prices have almost doubled since I sold my Gt3 for around 35k and I'm not planning on using the cat that much as have two other track cars so am really interested in anyone's advice on what's the right spec to buy for the long term.
Should it be gen 1? Clubsport or comfort? Personally I love Clubsport with Nomex seats.
How easy is it to get the data on over revving etc and having had the second gear synchro go within 2 days of having a thorough Independent inspection last time what points should I be looking out for?
Thanks very much for any advice
Mike
So after a few years of being Porscheless and having had a 996 GT2 and then 996.1 GT3 in the past I'm getting the urge to buy one again.
Prices have almost doubled since I sold my Gt3 for around 35k and I'm not planning on using the cat that much as have two other track cars so am really interested in anyone's advice on what's the right spec to buy for the long term.
Should it be gen 1? Clubsport or comfort? Personally I love Clubsport with Nomex seats.
How easy is it to get the data on over revving etc and having had the second gear synchro go within 2 days of having a thorough Independent inspection last time what points should I be looking out for?
Thanks very much for any advice
Mike
View it, have it inspected, buy it and thrash it :
https://www.silverstoneauctions.com/1999-porsche-9...
But all joking aside, a Mk1 Clubbie in a strong colour is the pick of the bunch, both as the drivers roadgoing 996 GT3 and from a value for money perspective.
Unless you plan on tracking it, the standard brakes are fine (need to be in tip top condition though), the Mk 2's much heralded stronger syncro'd gearbox with additional cooling, is pointless on the road.
The Mk1 syncros can be a problem, but only if driven by some knuckle dragging neanderthal with no mechanical sympathy whatsoever.
There's every chance the dampers and springs will be tired, budget to replace both to ensure the car is properly suspended as its maker intended.
Exhaust boxes rot as they're right in the firing line of water thrown up by the rear wheels.
Radiators and A/C condensors are a known 996 weak point.
Clutches will suffer and their life expectancy be shortened by the aforementioned knuckle dragging neanderthals.
Beware of crash damage, lots have been clattered along the Armco at the Ring by drivers who've mistaken ambition for ability.
Engines are now 16 years old and most will have been used very hard, they keep going, but will start to get increasingly rattly.
This one's a good one
but has been much modified :
http://www.911virgin.com/porscheforsale/1079/996GT...
Whatever car you buy, get a proper inspection done by the likes of Fearnsport, JZM, Parr, Sports & Classic, Unit 11 etc.
Rev range readouts on the Mk1 are crude, Type 2 is mechanical over revs, Type 1 bouncing off the rev limiter. The problem with being so crude, a Type 2 overrev could have been 2000 rpm past the redline, or it could have been 200rpm. The latter isn't a massive issue, the former is.
A combination of rev range readouts and a leakdown test is the only way to ensure what you're buying is healthy.
HTH.
https://www.silverstoneauctions.com/1999-porsche-9...
But all joking aside, a Mk1 Clubbie in a strong colour is the pick of the bunch, both as the drivers roadgoing 996 GT3 and from a value for money perspective.
Unless you plan on tracking it, the standard brakes are fine (need to be in tip top condition though), the Mk 2's much heralded stronger syncro'd gearbox with additional cooling, is pointless on the road.
The Mk1 syncros can be a problem, but only if driven by some knuckle dragging neanderthal with no mechanical sympathy whatsoever.
There's every chance the dampers and springs will be tired, budget to replace both to ensure the car is properly suspended as its maker intended.
Exhaust boxes rot as they're right in the firing line of water thrown up by the rear wheels.
Radiators and A/C condensors are a known 996 weak point.
Clutches will suffer and their life expectancy be shortened by the aforementioned knuckle dragging neanderthals.
Beware of crash damage, lots have been clattered along the Armco at the Ring by drivers who've mistaken ambition for ability.
Engines are now 16 years old and most will have been used very hard, they keep going, but will start to get increasingly rattly.
This one's a good one
but has been much modified :http://www.911virgin.com/porscheforsale/1079/996GT...
Whatever car you buy, get a proper inspection done by the likes of Fearnsport, JZM, Parr, Sports & Classic, Unit 11 etc.
Rev range readouts on the Mk1 are crude, Type 2 is mechanical over revs, Type 1 bouncing off the rev limiter. The problem with being so crude, a Type 2 overrev could have been 2000 rpm past the redline, or it could have been 200rpm. The latter isn't a massive issue, the former is.
A combination of rev range readouts and a leakdown test is the only way to ensure what you're buying is healthy.
HTH.
I've been told if anything in rev range 2, on a car of this age to look at how long ago it happened. Over 50 hours ago with no problem should be ok! Over 100 hours ago nothing to worry about.
There will always be more MK2's for sale, yes more BHP but slightly heavier so it's all a balance.
Modified cars can always be put back to standard but done properly 'Manthey' should not cause any problems.
Cars without buckets will always be less to buy and getting hold of OEM bucket seats are around £2,000 each. (If you can find them!!)
Colour wise is a personal thing, there seems to be lots of Silver ones around not making the worth any less just will not be snapped up as fast.
The MK1 v MK2 debate has been done so many times, it's a personal thing, just by the best car you can.
RS will always hold its money the most, followed by MK1 CS due to number built.
Great car never to be repeated by Porsche, a classic in years to come. (Many years mind you)
Good luck in the search, any question just post them up.
There will always be more MK2's for sale, yes more BHP but slightly heavier so it's all a balance.
Modified cars can always be put back to standard but done properly 'Manthey' should not cause any problems.
Cars without buckets will always be less to buy and getting hold of OEM bucket seats are around £2,000 each. (If you can find them!!)
Colour wise is a personal thing, there seems to be lots of Silver ones around not making the worth any less just will not be snapped up as fast.
The MK1 v MK2 debate has been done so many times, it's a personal thing, just by the best car you can.
RS will always hold its money the most, followed by MK1 CS due to number built.
Great car never to be repeated by Porsche, a classic in years to come. (Many years mind you)
Good luck in the search, any question just post them up.
If you already have 2 track cars, then get a Mk2 comfort for maximum bang for buck. Compared to all the dross out there at inflated prices, these are exceptional value.
If you later decide it's less a tourer and more a track car, then swapping out the seats for after-market buckets takes a few minutes every time you go on track, and you can gradually upgrade the car as you feel appropriate (start with the diff and front disks, and refurb or swap out the dampers).
If you later decide it's less a tourer and more a track car, then swapping out the seats for after-market buckets takes a few minutes every time you go on track, and you can gradually upgrade the car as you feel appropriate (start with the diff and front disks, and refurb or swap out the dampers).
Have you looked at this one?
http://www.topgear-cars.co.uk/showroom/porsche-gt3...
I have no idea why this car hasn't sold as its in lovely condition and a nice spec although maybe a bit pricey for a comfort. Its got a good history file and although technically its a comfort its got some nice seats and I think it has harness's too. It has a RS ram air scoop in carbon too which is a nice touch. I was very close to buying the car last year but I bought a club sport instead as it was a better deal for me. I have viewed the car in person BTW.
I have no relation to the seller but I have used Carlo (Owner) for years with no problem at all.
http://www.topgear-cars.co.uk/showroom/porsche-gt3...
I have no idea why this car hasn't sold as its in lovely condition and a nice spec although maybe a bit pricey for a comfort. Its got a good history file and although technically its a comfort its got some nice seats and I think it has harness's too. It has a RS ram air scoop in carbon too which is a nice touch. I was very close to buying the car last year but I bought a club sport instead as it was a better deal for me. I have viewed the car in person BTW.
I have no relation to the seller but I have used Carlo (Owner) for years with no problem at all.
nigelonich said:
Have you looked at this one?
http://www.topgear-cars.co.uk/showroom/porsche-gt3...
I have no idea why this car hasn't sold as its in lovely condition and a nice spec although maybe a bit pricey for a comfort. Its got a good history file and although technically its a comfort its got some nice seats and I think it has harness's too. It has a RS ram air scoop in carbon too which is a nice touch. I was very close to buying the car last year but I bought a club sport instead as it was a better deal for me. I have viewed the car in person BTW.
A silver Mk2 is about as meh as it gets I'm afraid. I suspect the market thinks the same as historically they've stuck at dealers. Add in the naff pedal covers, nasty clock surrounds and painted inserts on the seats, and it's showroom appeal is lessened further still.http://www.topgear-cars.co.uk/showroom/porsche-gt3...
I have no idea why this car hasn't sold as its in lovely condition and a nice spec although maybe a bit pricey for a comfort. Its got a good history file and although technically its a comfort its got some nice seats and I think it has harness's too. It has a RS ram air scoop in carbon too which is a nice touch. I was very close to buying the car last year but I bought a club sport instead as it was a better deal for me. I have viewed the car in person BTW.
I get some individuals prefer a more discreet looking GT3, but a silver Mk2 is just a step too far imho.
Very little difference - especially if optimised. I'd be happy with either. The MK2's are genreally better value. As said before, I'd buy on condition. The original front brakes on the MK1 can be under clubbed for track work to an inexperienced driver but most have been converted to 6 pots by now so that shouldnt be an issue
hondansx said:
I was under the impression the Gen 2 was significantly more evolved than the Gen 1, but as a result perhaps not as good a road car, is that not right?
EVO did a great comparison between the 996 and 997s... struggling to find i though!
This it?EVO did a great comparison between the 996 and 997s... struggling to find i though!
http://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/911/14004/porsche-996...
TX.
hondansx said:
I was under the impression the Gen 2 was significantly more evolved than the Gen 1, but as a result perhaps not as good a road car, is that not right?
EVO did a great comparison between the 996 and 997s... struggling to find i though!
Engine was revised (and it's internal components lightened) definitely revs better and more freely at the top end than the earlier engine, but to my mind it's less characterful, that won't bother many, but it did me. And if you want the top end zing of the later engine, get a Manthey K400 conversion in the Mk 1 and it will be the equal of the later engine, but with an induction and exhaust soundtrack to die for.EVO did a great comparison between the 996 and 997s... struggling to find i though!
The Mk 2 brakes are superior, but unnecessary for the road.
The Mk 1 and 2 suspension are indentical, the Mk 2 got significantly stiffer damper and spring rates, ideal for roundy round track use, more compromised for road use.
MK 2 gearbox gained a cooler and steel synchros on all gears. As with the brakes, unnecessary for road use (but a boon for knuckle dragging neanderthals who can't change gear/have no mechanical sympathy/apptitude whatsoever.
The MK 2 shell is stiffer (primarily as a function of improving its crashworthiness) I personally think this extra stiffness further detracts from its road usability. But any decent chassis engineer will tell you a stiff platform (she'll) is a prerequisite for a decently suspended car, so what do I know !
In summary, a well fettled standard MK 1 makes the perfect fast road car, the MK 2 a better track car out of the box.
Just to add a little fuel to the mk1 vs mk2 fire. I LOVE mk2s The closest GT3 to an RS to a race car.
...as slippy says the mk2 is less biased for comfy road use but as a consequence is a great raw driving experience.
...so if you like raw, and prefer a bit more zing, and particularly will want some track duty, then the mk2 is better imv
HOWEVER, if you are mainly driven by investment potential, then buy the rarest variant one even if its inferior
In which case I guess the objective logic should be 6RS>6.1CS>6.2CS>6.1nonCS>6.2nonCS
(being more subjective, I personally would be swapping the 6.1 and 6.2 models the other way around above)
(In a minute someone will point out that the 6.1CS is rarer than the 6RS...but I'm ignoring that)
HTH
The closest GT3 to an RS to a race car....as slippy says the mk2 is less biased for comfy road use but as a consequence is a great raw driving experience.
...so if you like raw, and prefer a bit more zing, and particularly will want some track duty, then the mk2 is better imv
HOWEVER, if you are mainly driven by investment potential, then buy the rarest variant one even if its inferior
In which case I guess the objective logic should be 6RS>6.1CS>6.2CS>6.1nonCS>6.2nonCS
(being more subjective, I personally would be swapping the 6.1 and 6.2 models the other way around above)
(In a minute someone will point out that the 6.1CS is rarer than the 6RS...but I'm ignoring that)
HTH
LaSource said:
Just to add a little fuel to the mk1 vs mk2 fire. I LOVE mk2s The closest GT3 to an RS to a race car.
...as slippy says the mk2 is less biased for comfy road use but as a consequence is a great raw driving experience.
...so if you like raw, and prefer a bit more zing, and particularly will want some track duty, then the mk2 is better imv
HOWEVER, if you are mainly driven by investment potential, then buy the rarest variant one even if its inferior
In which case I guess the objective logic should be 6RS>6.1CS>6.2CS>6.1nonCS>6.2nonCS
(being more subjective, I personally would be swapping the 6.1 and 6.2 models the other way around above)
(In a minute someone will point out that the 6.1CS is rarer than the 6RS...but I'm ignoring that)
HTH
I'm pretty sure Specialist Cars of Molton sold a 6.1 CS this summer with lowish miles - 20k ish? for 100k. The closest GT3 to an RS to a race car....as slippy says the mk2 is less biased for comfy road use but as a consequence is a great raw driving experience.
...so if you like raw, and prefer a bit more zing, and particularly will want some track duty, then the mk2 is better imv
HOWEVER, if you are mainly driven by investment potential, then buy the rarest variant one even if its inferior
In which case I guess the objective logic should be 6RS>6.1CS>6.2CS>6.1nonCS>6.2nonCS
(being more subjective, I personally would be swapping the 6.1 and 6.2 models the other way around above)
(In a minute someone will point out that the 6.1CS is rarer than the 6RS...but I'm ignoring that)
HTH
Ok, I'll bite
Raw my a*se
A bit like Mk1's in Zanzibar, I heard Mk2's in Guards are getting increasing scarce too ? ? ?
LaSource said:
Just to add a little fuel to the mk1 vs mk2 fire. I LOVE mk2s The closest GT3 to an RS to a race car.
That'd be the Mk1 (WHICH I LOVE) which was the closest to a 996 Cup/racecar the roadgoing 996 GT3 ever came The closest GT3 to an RS to a race car.LaSource said:
...as slippy says the mk2 is less biased for comfy road use but as a consequence is a great raw driving experience.
Do refresh my memory, which car has cupholders, electronic engine cover/frunk releases and a glovebox....Raw my a*se
LaSource said:
...so if you like raw, and prefer a bit more zing, and particularly will want some track duty, then the mk2 is better imv
That'd be a Mk1 with 996 GT2 six pots (note I've referred to them as 996 GT2 6 pots, not Mk2 996 GT3 6pots, 'cause the Mk2 GT3 borrowed them from the GT2) Manthey K400 and KW's/Ohlins etc. Best looking, best investment potential (especially if a Clubbie) and rarest. Job jobbed. The end. LaSource said:
HOWEVER, if you are mainly driven by investment potential, then buy the rarest variant, knowing it's superior
In which case I guess the objective logic should be 6RS>6.1CS>6.2CS>6.1nonCS>6.2nonCS
(being more subjective, I personally would be swapping the 6.1 and 6.2 models the other way around above)
(In a minute someone will point out that the 6.1CS is rarer than the 6RS...but I'm ignoring that)
HTH
EFA In which case I guess the objective logic should be 6RS>6.1CS>6.2CS>6.1nonCS>6.2nonCS
(being more subjective, I personally would be swapping the 6.1 and 6.2 models the other way around above)
(In a minute someone will point out that the 6.1CS is rarer than the 6RS...but I'm ignoring that)
HTH
A bit like Mk1's in Zanzibar, I heard Mk2's in Guards are getting increasing scarce too ? ? ?
They're all extraordinary cars. I'd rather have a good mk2 comfort than an average mk 1 CS. And vice versa. Buying these cars as investments misses the point of them.
They have all have a geo you can adjust to your needs and a Mezger. Buy one, modify it (or not), spank it, never sell it - you will own a car that hit the pinnacle of the analogue era of cars and you don't need to give a damn about the next buyer knocking off a few quid from the price because you accidentally polished away the 15 year old faded paint sticker.
They have all have a geo you can adjust to your needs and a Mezger. Buy one, modify it (or not), spank it, never sell it - you will own a car that hit the pinnacle of the analogue era of cars and you don't need to give a damn about the next buyer knocking off a few quid from the price because you accidentally polished away the 15 year old faded paint sticker.
lemmingjames said:
Best investment will be a standard car, not something thats been modified to suit, ok you can return back to oem but...
look at the manthey mk1 in zani red that didnt sell or if it did, took a while to.
Besides, Speed Yellow is where its at
I'm not aware of any Zanzibar Mk1 Manthey converted cars coming to the market in a long time. There was a massively modified 4.0 Ltr 500hp Zanzibar Mk1, but it didn't roll out of Manthey's workshops. Pretty much every element of it had been modified (thoughtfully) at huge expense (including a welded in cage IIRC) and an RS race car gearbox. A car such as that was never going to be returned back to standard.look at the manthey mk1 in zani red that didnt sell or if it did, took a while to.
Besides, Speed Yellow is where its at
Brakes and suspension are easily upgraded (and returned back to standard) the Manthey engine conversion is less so (especially if the engine cover has been modified to accept the Cup air filter and Manthey carbon fibre cold air duct) But the K400 conversion is well regarded and Manthey are seen as a bona fide Porsche tuners (all the moreso now they're owned by Porsche AG)
Speed Yellow you say ?
http://www.911virgin.com/porscheforsale/618/996GT3...
^ My old car, you're preaching to the converted dear boy
http://www.911virgin.com/porscheforsale/1079/996GT...
As was this this one too ^
Slippydiff said:
Ok, I'll bite
You are too easy They are all great - us 'what-ever-is-equivalent-to-beardies-' are just splitting hairs.
Just one point, apart from condition, being sensitive cars each car can be setup so differently that a well setup 6.xGT3 will feel better than a badly setup 6RS and vice versa. Hence individual experiences mean everyone has had a different journey to what they find most rewarding.
LaSource said:
You are too easy
They are all great - us 'what-ever-is-equivalent-to-beardies-' are just splitting hairs.
Just one point, apart from condition, being sensitive cars each car can be setup so differently that a well setup 6.xGT3 will feel better than a badly setup 6RS and vice versa. Hence individual experiences mean everyone has had a different journey to what they find most rewarding.
Indeed, I've driven some shockers, the really sad thing is that many folks test drive poorly maintained/badly set up cars that weave all over the road, follow cambers and bounce around on the bumpstops like a pogo stick, and think it's normal. Whereas in reality a well maintained car with decent springs, dampers, tyres and geo/ride heights need be none of the above. Unfortunately the cars get slated for being unpleasant/hard to drive, when they're not.They are all great - us 'what-ever-is-equivalent-to-beardies-' are just splitting hairs.
Just one point, apart from condition, being sensitive cars each car can be setup so differently that a well setup 6.xGT3 will feel better than a badly setup 6RS and vice versa. Hence individual experiences mean everyone has had a different journey to what they find most rewarding.
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