991R vs 997.2 sport classic!Which would you choose?
Discussion
Just watched the PH video and it got me thinking , the sport classic which has a similar roof line to the R and was very exclusive limited numbers car,a similar new price tag yet after launch it depreciated to 2/3 rds of its rrp and did not go up tenfold on launch like the R although it has now doubled in price recently like so many other Porsches!
Yes the R has the better engine yet the sport classic is the more analogue and perhaps would be my road car of choice over the R!
Now if porsche had built the SC with the 997.2 gt3 RS lump /short ratio gearbox then it would be the ultimate road going modern 911!
But then as mentioned in the video at the price the 991R is commanding better off buying a 997 4.0 gt3RS!
Forgot to add it also was given 2 body stripes!
Yes the R has the better engine yet the sport classic is the more analogue and perhaps would be my road car of choice over the R!
Now if porsche had built the SC with the 997.2 gt3 RS lump /short ratio gearbox then it would be the ultimate road going modern 911!
But then as mentioned in the video at the price the 991R is commanding better off buying a 997 4.0 gt3RS!
Forgot to add it also was given 2 body stripes!
Edited by GT4P on Thursday 22 September 16:39
Agree. But it is quite interesting to follow. If the 4.0 is the "drivers" preference then the "R" must be the collectors preference otherwise you can't explain the difference in price. Also, the 600 4.0 is finite. With the R you don't know whether Porsche simply launches a manual GT3 RS.2 in due course and then you are buggered as a collector.
In terms of numbers, the 997.2 GT3 is pretty much the lowest of recent models including the RS. Originally around 135 RHD which probably means that there are around 125 left in the UK . IMHO totally underpriced against the RS version.
As a comparison , the much sought after GT4 is currently showing about 550 UK deliveries
As a comparison , the much sought after GT4 is currently showing about 550 UK deliveries
Robbo66 said:
Dr S said:
I'll have the R - and a 3.8 RS to go with. Don't see the point of the Sportclassic beyond the few styling tweaks
Agree. The SC is a parts bin tarts handbag, lovely colour though.Until you've lived with the electric steering and sanitised experience that is the 991 you don't really appreciate what was lost in the transition from 997 to 991. It's small stuff that adds up to a big difference.
Sport Classic for me, it looks more exotic and unique, for A road & Mway driving (which is all I do), it is plenty fast enough, I thing the chassis of the R would be annoying for this type of use, and a large part of the enjoyment of a car for me is a nice interior which the SC wins at IMO
footsoldier said:
Can't comment as I've not driven a 4.0 or an R as yet.
However, two people I do know, who own or have owned 4.0s think the R is more engaging to drive.
Sport Classic looks really good, but is really a body kit.
This is actually a very poor review imv on the R, I don't think he understands what the R is about, ie his comparisons with the 997 4.0RS. The R is not designed to be a track car like RS. Its all about interaction feedback, the R delivers this by the bucket load over the 4.0RS.However, two people I do know, who own or have owned 4.0s think the R is more engaging to drive.
Sport Classic looks really good, but is really a body kit.
Having now tracked my R, would not want to bet against it setting a faster lap time than the 4.0 RS.
APOLO1 said:
This is actually a very poor review imv on the R, I don't think he understands what the R is about, ie his comparisons with the 997 4.0RS. The R is not designed to be a track car like RS. Its all about interaction feedback, the R delivers this by the bucket load over the 4.0RS.
Having now tracked my R, would not want to bet against it setting a faster lap time than the 4.0 RS.
'Bucket loads over the 4.0RS' ?.Having now tracked my R, would not want to bet against it setting a faster lap time than the 4.0 RS.
He's right about one thing, you put 1000 miles on one of these, will cost you £100k.
Robbo66 said:
'Bucket loads over the 4.0RS' ?.
He's right about one thing, you put 1000 miles on one of these, will cost you £100k.
Yep, times have moved on...the R feels like its 1100kg, it changes direction like an Elan sprint, the interaction of the Clutch and Box is about the best on any MT I have ever driven, the engine spins up like a fast sports bike. The steering is about as good as it gets like CH says in his video, its like opening the door and placing your hand on the road, so much feel feed back, the front end turn in, balance in the bends, feed back through the seat rails, etcHe's right about one thing, you put 1000 miles on one of these, will cost you £100k.
OK its not like the 91RS on track, but its above the 997 40 imv. I get that a lot will have to do with the latest compound on the Cup 2s, and RWS etc, but the R is much more than the sum of its parts...the car reminds me a lot from a fun interaction point like a well sorted 80s SC, but with 3 x the power, constantly moving around, giving so much feed back. The only down side imv is the noise, bit to loud inside on a long trip. But then that's all part of event...
Edited by APOLO1 on Friday 23 September 07:41
@Apolo. That is a good description which pretty much sums up the R experience. I have driven the "R" and am fortunate to own both a 991 GT RS and a 4.0. The 4.0 is by far the more special occasion car to drive. It rattles on start-up and in traffic it feels impatient and slightly cumbersome to drive with a heavy clutch and a bit of lack of torque when going slowly. When the road opens up and you hit those 4500 rpm it is in another world. On track it is great to drive but as with all Porsche's of that generation and earlier, it lacks poise on corner entry and when going really fast feels a bit floaty which induces you to go a bit slower. You have to engage with the car all the time and it is slightly hard work. The big difference to the 991 is that it drives perfectly out of the box. It is very easy to drive fast and it is probably too fast for the public roads. Its a bigger car but feels nimble due to the rear-wheel steer. On track it is a surgical tool which corners with precision and the downforce makes you feel that you can go even faster. Not bothering with the gear shifts gives you more time to concentrate on your lines and you get quicker as a result. On the Autobahn i hit 200 mph without getting sweaty palms - the 4.0 needs much more concentration to go at that speed. Noise in both is about the same. The 991 is pretty loud inside and on long trips that can be a nuisance. I think both the "R" and the 4.0 hit the spot but they come from two opposing directions. Whereas the 4.0 is the zenith of the analogue age, the R is the base of digital age. The "R" has ironed out the floaty front end and perfected the gear-change but has maintained the driver engagement which the pdk and the downforce has removed in the RS. I still prefer the look of the RS with its broder hips and more purposeful poise. Whereas the 4.0 is "end of an era" I hope the "R" has told Porsche where the next era begins and i hope the blow out commercial success will lead to these features being made available to the broder masses in later iterations.
hornbaek said:
@Apolo. That is a good description which pretty much sums up the R experience. I have driven the "R" and am fortunate to own both a 991 GT RS and a 4.0. The 4.0 is by far the more special occasion car to drive. It rattles on start-up and in traffic it feels impatient and slightly cumbersome to drive with a heavy clutch and a bit of lack of torque when going slowly. When the road opens up and you hit those 4500 rpm it is in another world. On track it is great to drive but as with all Porsche's of that generation and earlier, it lacks poise on corner entry and when going really fast feels a bit floaty which induces you to go a bit slower. You have to engage with the car all the time and it is slightly hard work. The big difference to the 991 is that it drives perfectly out of the box. It is very easy to drive fast and it is probably too fast for the public roads. Its a bigger car but feels nimble due to the rear-wheel steer. On track it is a surgical tool which corners with precision and the downforce makes you feel that you can go even faster. Not bothering with the gear shifts gives you more time to concentrate on your lines and you get quicker as a result. On the Autobahn i hit 200 mph without getting sweaty palms - the 4.0 needs much more concentration to go at that speed. Noise in both is about the same. The 991 is pretty loud inside and on long trips that can be a nuisance. I think both the "R" and the 4.0 hit the spot but they come from two opposing directions. Whereas the 4.0 is the zenith of the analogue age, the R is the base of digital age. The "R" has ironed out the floaty front end and perfected the gear-change but has maintained the driver engagement which the pdk and the downforce has removed in the RS. I still prefer the look of the RS with its broder hips and more purposeful poise. Whereas the 4.0 is "end of an era" I hope the "R" has told Porsche where the next era begins and i hope the blow out commercial success will lead to these features being made available to the broder masses in later iterations.
HiAll I would like to add is that I also have a 991RS, 20 track days now, and 4.0 97, I Have had a few 997 40s. I Think the R is about as close to as you get to with regard to Old meets new...was the R you drove a customer car? I say this because I have driven 2 none customer cars, neither had the SMFW or I suspect the sound proof removed. Both these items make a massive difference as to the way the R drives, with the SMFW in the R, you get a lot more chatter along with it feels like another 50bhp over the 91R. Also feels race car like throttle pick up, due to the less drag from the SMFW.....
Edited by APOLO1 on Friday 23 September 08:20
GT4P said:
jakesmith said:
Sport Classic for me, it looks more exotic and unique, nice interior which the SC wins at IMO
Apart from which all 9*7.2 are afflicted with is the fugly steering wheel it needs the sports design one!
Surely has to be the R....SC looks great but has to be one of Porsche's more cynical limited edition specials with nothing mechanically different about it.
The 4.0 RS vs the R is a whole different debate. I think the RS will be the more sort after in the long term.
Lets hope that the fantastic reception the R has got means Porsche make a car with some of its characteristics that is available to mere mortals.
The 4.0 RS vs the R is a whole different debate. I think the RS will be the more sort after in the long term.
Lets hope that the fantastic reception the R has got means Porsche make a car with some of its characteristics that is available to mere mortals.
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