Accountants determine policing
Discussion
And you thought the Chief Constable ran the force (sorry, service) under his command!
Not so!
It's run by the accountants.
Steve Green, Chief Constable of Nottinghamshire (you know, that county where everyone unites under the 'N'
) said he was prevented from putting more police into front-line duties because if he reduced the number of officers doing clerical work he would lose a large amount of his funding from the Crime Fighting Fund.
And this quote says it all:
"Our accountant has said that if there was a way out of it, he would tell me,".
So now you know!
Streaky
PS - are Dibble, silverback_mike, gone, mungo, TonyRec, St
and DVD (etc) CAs or PCs (actual rank excepted)? - S
Not so!
It's run by the accountants.
Steve Green, Chief Constable of Nottinghamshire (you know, that county where everyone unites under the 'N'
) said he was prevented from putting more police into front-line duties because if he reduced the number of officers doing clerical work he would lose a large amount of his funding from the Crime Fighting Fund. And this quote says it all:
"Our accountant has said that if there was a way out of it, he would tell me,".
So now you know!
Streaky
PS - are Dibble, silverback_mike, gone, mungo, TonyRec, St
and DVD (etc) CAs or PCs (actual rank excepted)? - S Steve Green, who I served with as a two pipper, hits the nail on the head.
Its all vfm now.
This started in the mid 70's when the Lady in Blue was conned by those in HO that the Police Service should be run as a business (profit and loss) and appointed a somewhat unsuccessful businessman called Shea to review and come up with recommendations. Despite the fact that anything managing failure cannot be run as a business, he said, yes. So was spawned a load of self perpetuating drivel that has almost killed the Police Service/Force.
I am, like yourself a silver top, who is now out of it after the majority of service on Traffic. I do have a daughter within the service from which I have nothing but admiration for Gone, Dibble, Mungo, Gemeni,Tony Rec, Silverback M and even SC for soldiering on in what is nothing more than adversity. Be thankful they are prepared to give their all.
DVD
Its all vfm now.
This started in the mid 70's when the Lady in Blue was conned by those in HO that the Police Service should be run as a business (profit and loss) and appointed a somewhat unsuccessful businessman called Shea to review and come up with recommendations. Despite the fact that anything managing failure cannot be run as a business, he said, yes. So was spawned a load of self perpetuating drivel that has almost killed the Police Service/Force.
I am, like yourself a silver top, who is now out of it after the majority of service on Traffic. I do have a daughter within the service from which I have nothing but admiration for Gone, Dibble, Mungo, Gemeni,Tony Rec, Silverback M and even SC for soldiering on in what is nothing more than adversity. Be thankful they are prepared to give their all.
DVD
Dwight VanDriver said:
This started in the mid 70's when the Lady in Blue was conned by those in HO that the Police Service should be run as a business (profit and loss) and appointed a somewhat unsuccessful businessman called Shea to review and come up with recommendations.
Its not a business that it needs to be run as. First item on my agenda is scrapping regional forces that will save millions for stage two - putting Bib on the street and not in offices.
streaky said:
And you thought the Chief Constable ran the force (sorry, service) under his command!
Not so!
It's run by the accountants.
Steve Green, Chief Constable of Nottinghamshire (you know, that county where everyone unites under the 'N'
Err... so if he fights crime (by putting Coppers out doing what they should be doing) he loses money for fighting crime ?
BiBs, is this normal ? Who would come up with such a dim scheme ?
I cannot see the point in having Cops do lots of clerical work. They are rather expensive and overtrained for clerical work, and they probably aren't that good at it - I hope people don't join the Police for the thrill of filling in R72/630AC7/4A anyway....
bluepolarbear said:
This started in the mid 70's when the Lady in Blue was conned by those in HO that the Police Service should be run as a business (profit and loss) and appointed a somewhat unsuccessful businessman called Shea to review and come up with recommendations.
Its not a business that it needs to be run as. First item on my agenda is scrapping regional forces that will save millions for stage two - putting Bib on the street and not in offices.
You need to shoot the office wallahs and put proper cops (of the type we have here) in charge.
Office Wallahs do two things ; they try to justify their existence (by coming out with schemes, systems and new paperwork) and they expand their empires (which means it mushrooms).
They need to be all shot, the paperwork needs to be organised properly (i.e. not by bl**dy consulants !) and employ some cheap people to do the paperwork who are under the direct control of Coppers.
I would *suspect* it is the other way round ; the paperwork people control the coppers too much.
The ACPO "clones and butterfies" should be put in a room which is then filled with nerve gas.
Ist all one big scam - und could be resolved by employing clerical workers at lower salaries.
But there ist one other scam which ist very lucrative for BiB - or whoever does this... the CREB check on the teachers und school staff. £60 per time und two month wait - und people I know - who work in education are telling me that they cannot transfer their valid check from LEA to LEA or even school to school: each one ist demanding a new check which costs £60 und involves two month wait. For this kind of money - it should arrive within days....!
Just what ist happening to this money? Who ist benefitting from this? Ist even worse scam than scammering....
But ist very typical of our Stasi-minded leaders,.....who probably fund their expenses und stays at the Carlton
(which they deny but journalist (Mail) got the proof! 
) from this funding....
But there ist one other scam which ist very lucrative for BiB - or whoever does this... the CREB check on the teachers und school staff. £60 per time und two month wait - und people I know - who work in education are telling me that they cannot transfer their valid check from LEA to LEA or even school to school: each one ist demanding a new check which costs £60 und involves two month wait. For this kind of money - it should arrive within days....!
Just what ist happening to this money? Who ist benefitting from this? Ist even worse scam than scammering....
But ist very typical of our Stasi-minded leaders,.....who probably fund their expenses und stays at the Carlton
(which they deny but journalist (Mail) got the proof! ) from this funding....But then again - it could be down to how the officers are deployed.... matter has just been debated on the good ol' Vine prog..und one very unhappy Notts bunny has contacted the prog to inform all und sundry that Notts police are busy catching criminals alright - the ones who park two wheels on pavements or just slightly out of a bay (thought traffic wardens did this 
- apparently not so in Notts ... )
Chap suggested that perhaps these officers could be switched to plodding beat to catch criminals und taking notes in murder enquiries und so on....
- apparently not so in Notts ... ) Chap suggested that perhaps these officers could be switched to plodding beat to catch criminals und taking notes in murder enquiries und so on....
I live in nottingham city centre, my local pub (god help me) is the wheel tappers which is the one where that chap got murdered the other day (it's 150 yds from my house 
)
in common with I guess most people, I never see BiB on the street here, I've only ever seen one copper in a car (and it was a traffic car because the others were busy) and that was to keep guard (I told you it's a bad area!) while some glaziers boarded up the house down the road that had just been vandalised.
I very rarely see cops at all in fact and I spend all my time in nottingham and it's suburbs...I saw a lone copper at the thai festival in town yesterday and I asked why it is that there aren't more cops on the beat...he said he couldn't answer (diplomacy!) but he did say that the reason he was walking about was because he hadn't walked the beat this year so far!!!!
there are quite a few PCSO's but more than once I have seen them get intimidated by bouncers/chavs/pissed up yobs to the point of helplessness...I once got asked to call 999 because one pair had got their radios stolen!
the answer to me is obvious, admin staff to do the admin, policemen to police. job done
reeeeespec' to the police on PH!
) in common with I guess most people, I never see BiB on the street here, I've only ever seen one copper in a car (and it was a traffic car because the others were busy) and that was to keep guard (I told you it's a bad area!) while some glaziers boarded up the house down the road that had just been vandalised.
I very rarely see cops at all in fact and I spend all my time in nottingham and it's suburbs...I saw a lone copper at the thai festival in town yesterday and I asked why it is that there aren't more cops on the beat...he said he couldn't answer (diplomacy!) but he did say that the reason he was walking about was because he hadn't walked the beat this year so far!!!!
there are quite a few PCSO's but more than once I have seen them get intimidated by bouncers/chavs/pissed up yobs to the point of helplessness...I once got asked to call 999 because one pair had got their radios stolen!
the answer to me is obvious, admin staff to do the admin, policemen to police. job done
reeeeespec' to the police on PH!
minimax said:
I live in nottingham city centre, my local pub (god help me) is the wheel tappers which is the one where that chap got murdered the other day (it's 150 yds from my house
in common with I guess most people, I never see BiB on the street here, I've only ever seen one copper in a car (and it was a traffic car because the others were busy) and that was to keep guard (I told you it's a bad area!) while some glaziers boarded up the house down the road that had just been vandalised.
I very rarely see cops at all in fact and I spend all my time in nottingham and it's suburbs...I saw a lone copper at the thai festival in town yesterday and I asked why it is that there aren't more cops on the beat...he said he couldn't answer (diplomacy!) but he did say that the reason he was walking about was because he hadn't walked the beat this year so far!!!!
there are quite a few PCSO's but more than once I have seen them get intimidated by bouncers/chavs/pissed up yobs to the point of helplessness...I once got asked to call 999 because one pair had got their radios stolen!
the answer to me is obvious, admin staff to do the admin, policemen to police. job done
reeeeespec' to the police on PH!
Too simple. I see much the same in Norwich (which is not as rough as Nottingham is I suspect). I have seen a couple of PSCOs patrolling, which is good, but I'd still rather see a few Gones and Dibbles about. I suspect chavsoc are well aware about the weaknesses of PSCOs.
With regards to Nottingham, this is why. The thrust of this seems to be it's impossible to employ grunts to do the paperwork because the Gov't only want Coppers employed so they can boast about the numbers.
Police chief: we cannot cope with violent crime
By Daniel Foggo and Carl Fellstrom
(Filed: 13/03/2005)
One of Britain's most senior police officers has admitted that his force is being overwhelmed by violent crime and cannot cope.
Steve Green, the Chief Constable of Nottinghamshire, said that among the principal causes of the crisis were Government reforms that compelled him to use officers for clerical tasks instead of front-line duties.
Chief Constable Steve Green
Steve Green: 'We are in a crisis situation'
The situation was so bad that he was preparing to "farm out" murder investigations to other police forces because his own detectives did not have time to tackle them.
Nottingham has been one of the worst affected areas for gun crime, which hit record levels across England and Wales last year.
Mr Green said ministers had a "fixation" with keeping officer numbers up - but had, in fact, been responsible for policies that had taken police away from front-line duties to do jobs that should be carried out by civilian staff, such as writing Home Office reports.
"We are reeling with the murders," he said. "We are in a long-standing crisis situation with major crime and it won't go away overnight.
"Having police doing back-office jobs is one of the factors [hampering us]. I want to increase the number of operational cops by reducing the numbers doing back-office jobs. It's frustrating to know that I could make better use of the money I've got, but I'm constrained from doing it because officer numbers is a political football. All the parties have the same fixation."
Mr Green said he was prevented from putting more police into front-line duties because if he reduced the number of officers doing clerical work he would lose a large amount of his funding from the Crime Fighting Fund, a Labour measure that gives extra money to forces that keep officer numbers high.
"Our accountant has said that if there was a way out of it, he would tell me," he said.
Mr Green, whose comments will increase pressure on the Government over its law-and-order policies, said his force was heavily in debt. He regularly had to borrow detectives from other constabularies to tackle a spate of largely drugs-related murders.
"We are now routinely going out to 'foreign' forces to get additional officers." One option they were on the verge of adopting was to farm an entire murder inquiry to another force. "I'm not aware of any other force ever having done such a thing," he said.
Nottingham's crisis has been prompted by a sharp rise in the number of murders and other violent crimes.
Since 2001, the force has had to investigate 21 Category A murders - those classed as being high-profile with no immediate suspect. Before 2000, it was dealing with one Category A murder every 12 to 18 months on average. Its officers are currently running 30 murder investigations.
Nottinghamshire residents are also three times more likely than the national average to have their car broken into, four times as likely to be burgled, almost five times as likely to be robbed, and twice as likely to suffer sexual attack. Nottinghamshire was also among the bottom four of under-performing forces in official figures last year.
Mr Green's decision to speak out follows another fatal shooting last week. Paul Thomas, 34, had left a pub in Radford, Nottingham, when he was gunned down just after 4.30pm on Thursday.
Firearms offences in England and Wales rose to a high of 24,094 last year with levels in Nottingham the fifth highest per head of population after London, Manchester, Liverpool and the West Midlands.
The Association of Chief Police Officers said other forces were experiencing similar pressures to Nottinghamshire because of the need for officers to carry out bureaucratic tasks that should be done by civilians.
"We've been raising it with the Government for some months," said a spokesman. "There is a fixation with police numbers, and an inflexibility over budgets, which is not producing effective policing. We can recruit officers, but not necessarily civilian staff."
David Davis, the shadow Home Secretary, said Mr Green's predicament was an example of the Government's ring-fencing of money, together with forces being swamped with bureaucracy.
He said: "We will do away with the national policing plan that creates these tar-gets so those police they have can be properly used."
Police chief: we cannot cope with violent crime
By Daniel Foggo and Carl Fellstrom
(Filed: 13/03/2005)
One of Britain's most senior police officers has admitted that his force is being overwhelmed by violent crime and cannot cope.
Steve Green, the Chief Constable of Nottinghamshire, said that among the principal causes of the crisis were Government reforms that compelled him to use officers for clerical tasks instead of front-line duties.
Chief Constable Steve Green
Steve Green: 'We are in a crisis situation'
The situation was so bad that he was preparing to "farm out" murder investigations to other police forces because his own detectives did not have time to tackle them.
Nottingham has been one of the worst affected areas for gun crime, which hit record levels across England and Wales last year.
Mr Green said ministers had a "fixation" with keeping officer numbers up - but had, in fact, been responsible for policies that had taken police away from front-line duties to do jobs that should be carried out by civilian staff, such as writing Home Office reports.
"We are reeling with the murders," he said. "We are in a long-standing crisis situation with major crime and it won't go away overnight.
"Having police doing back-office jobs is one of the factors [hampering us]. I want to increase the number of operational cops by reducing the numbers doing back-office jobs. It's frustrating to know that I could make better use of the money I've got, but I'm constrained from doing it because officer numbers is a political football. All the parties have the same fixation."
Mr Green said he was prevented from putting more police into front-line duties because if he reduced the number of officers doing clerical work he would lose a large amount of his funding from the Crime Fighting Fund, a Labour measure that gives extra money to forces that keep officer numbers high.
"Our accountant has said that if there was a way out of it, he would tell me," he said.
Mr Green, whose comments will increase pressure on the Government over its law-and-order policies, said his force was heavily in debt. He regularly had to borrow detectives from other constabularies to tackle a spate of largely drugs-related murders.
"We are now routinely going out to 'foreign' forces to get additional officers." One option they were on the verge of adopting was to farm an entire murder inquiry to another force. "I'm not aware of any other force ever having done such a thing," he said.
Nottingham's crisis has been prompted by a sharp rise in the number of murders and other violent crimes.
Since 2001, the force has had to investigate 21 Category A murders - those classed as being high-profile with no immediate suspect. Before 2000, it was dealing with one Category A murder every 12 to 18 months on average. Its officers are currently running 30 murder investigations.
Nottinghamshire residents are also three times more likely than the national average to have their car broken into, four times as likely to be burgled, almost five times as likely to be robbed, and twice as likely to suffer sexual attack. Nottinghamshire was also among the bottom four of under-performing forces in official figures last year.
Mr Green's decision to speak out follows another fatal shooting last week. Paul Thomas, 34, had left a pub in Radford, Nottingham, when he was gunned down just after 4.30pm on Thursday.
Firearms offences in England and Wales rose to a high of 24,094 last year with levels in Nottingham the fifth highest per head of population after London, Manchester, Liverpool and the West Midlands.
The Association of Chief Police Officers said other forces were experiencing similar pressures to Nottinghamshire because of the need for officers to carry out bureaucratic tasks that should be done by civilians.
"We've been raising it with the Government for some months," said a spokesman. "There is a fixation with police numbers, and an inflexibility over budgets, which is not producing effective policing. We can recruit officers, but not necessarily civilian staff."
David Davis, the shadow Home Secretary, said Mr Green's predicament was an example of the Government's ring-fencing of money, together with forces being swamped with bureaucracy.
He said: "We will do away with the national policing plan that creates these tar-gets so those police they have can be properly used."
cwk said:
8Pack said:
ACCOUNTANT: .........One who knows the cost of everything, .............and the value of nothing.
Er, that's a cynic
Charles (an accountant....!)
Sorry CWK me old mate, It's true though, no really, it is! I work on the engineering side of things, keeping the wheels of our particular industry turning. MMmmh! NO Damn it, We run the place. 
even if others claim to do so. In the last 20 yrs, accountants have instructed us to: "throw away irreplacable spares which we held" - we now pay through the nose for them having them specially made, or totally replaced by new equipment which is no better (expensive).
We, as a dept, cannot hold spares which we would deem wise (well not officially anyway,) - as dictated by accountants. Not doing so costs us 3 times more when things go bang! For emergency service from suppliers. But the accountants will NOT allow us to decide what spares we keep, an' we're the Engineering dept FFS! (We know in advance what's going to go Bang!) That's our job.
End of line electrical equipment has been used on "new" installations because they are cheaper, and instantly obsolete! More expense to "re-engineer" later..
Vendor lists are drawn up for us to purchase items from when we can get them cheaper elsewhere. (costs a fortune to set up and doesn't deliver, we COULD do it cheaper).
I could go on but it's getting a bit long now.
Suffice it to say: and nothing personal obviously CWK but accountants have been responsible for: cutting our Dept numbers in half, and we're the very sharp end of the operation, to the point where we now, "firefight" rather than cope in keeping the place running. And this is an important" industry, not many are more so! Defo a taliban target.
At the same time "their" numbers, office space and influence has increased to the point where we now have a paper trail created by them for every ha'penny spent (which in itself costs more than any saving made) and keeps us away from our real work for half of each day making our numbers situation even worse!
I can fully understand Streaky's post about the effect on the Police if it's anything like ours, and I've no reason to suppose that it isn't.
Sorry CWK, No offence meant obviously, but it's an accountants world now, created by accountants, for accountants. Pleee-ase, stick to counting beans, and leave the rest to us.
As part of your training, I propose that you should be forced to spend at least 12 months with us, I'm sure it would make you: "the man", and a much wiser one
at that. If you take a look at our politicians these days, they are almost always: "Lawyers and Accountants", Now! Ladies and Gentlemen (here assembled) Who here thinks that these folk hold the crown when it comes to "common sense"? I rest my case.
..................."Damn it! In the time it's taken me to type that, I could've earned..er...let's see...........
Cheers, Dave >> Edited by 8Pack on Tuesday 15th March 02:50
Much of the country is like this.
Bureaucrats have nothing much to do, so they have to create things to make themselves look busy. They also "rate" themselves by the size of their departments.
Empire building, budgets and power are what matters. What actually is being done is irrelevant (as long as they can cover their tracks)
The actual people who do the work (be they Cops or Engineers) are too busy being Cops & Engineers (and trying to implement their stupid diktats) to empire build.
Bureaucrats have nothing much to do, so they have to create things to make themselves look busy. They also "rate" themselves by the size of their departments.
Empire building, budgets and power are what matters. What actually is being done is irrelevant (as long as they can cover their tracks)
The actual people who do the work (be they Cops or Engineers) are too busy being Cops & Engineers (and trying to implement their stupid diktats) to empire build.
And now No 10 attempts to smear Steve Green (usual tactics), claiming he has more police and more money than preveiously.
But that misses the point he was making, Tony!
He was saying that to get and keep the money he had to put officers - including the additional ones - on office duties, thereby negating the extra manpower and money.
Duh!
Streaky
PS - nice to see that 3 other CCs have backed Mr Green - S
But that misses the point he was making, Tony!
He was saying that to get and keep the money he had to put officers - including the additional ones - on office duties, thereby negating the extra manpower and money.
Duh!
Streaky
PS - nice to see that 3 other CCs have backed Mr Green - S
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