Transmission Whine - Gearbox on its last legs?
Discussion
My Cerb has recently developed a whining noise in all gears except 4th when accelerating or maintaining constant speed. If it was the diff Id expect it to do it in all gears so I'm suspecting the gearbox as 4th is 1:1 so shouldn't involve the layshaft which may be the cause of the noise. The car is coming up to a 12000 mile service so I'm wondering if:
1. My diagnosis is correct.
2. Assuming it is, if a fluid change would likely fix the issue, or just be a waste of money given the next step would be no. 3:
3. I'll remove the engine and gearbox to have the box refurbed/exchanged, sort an exhaust leak from between the nearside cylinder head and exhaust manifold, and do the valve clearances. Plus maybe the timing chain as its on 80500 ish miles and a general look over the engine and bay with it all removed.
Thoughts on my diagnosis much appreciated before I get the engine out and spend on a new gearbox.
1. My diagnosis is correct.
2. Assuming it is, if a fluid change would likely fix the issue, or just be a waste of money given the next step would be no. 3:
3. I'll remove the engine and gearbox to have the box refurbed/exchanged, sort an exhaust leak from between the nearside cylinder head and exhaust manifold, and do the valve clearances. Plus maybe the timing chain as its on 80500 ish miles and a general look over the engine and bay with it all removed.
Thoughts on my diagnosis much appreciated before I get the engine out and spend on a new gearbox.
You may find my recent experience useful
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
And just for your amusement, this is what happened with the input shaft retainer (see posts from Sat 20th Aug)
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
And just for your amusement, this is what happened with the input shaft retainer (see posts from Sat 20th Aug)
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Paul, I'd seen your threads, terrible luck which I'd hoped not to suffer from. I guess really I might as well bite the bullet and get the engine and box out. I suppose it cant be too hard to get the top off the gearbox and see what state the gears are in before handing it over to a professional.
I was completely clueless before the latest incident, but now I understand that there are only two things to adjust on a T5WC, input shaft shims, and countershaft shims. Everything else is Meccano.
Admitedly there is a significant snafu on the TVR variant, and that is covered here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piCMtiE2XEE
Admitedly there is a significant snafu on the TVR variant, and that is covered here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piCMtiE2XEE
CerbWill said:
Paul, I'd seen your threads, terrible luck which I'd hoped not to suffer from.
That's generous of you, but actually it was my own stupidity/negligence that resulted in the pilot bearing failure, and then input shaft failure.I'm just glad that the damaged countershaft held together for DN16, and I didn't hold the horses. But I reckon there is more whine now than before.
I really didn't want to disappoint my parents, who came to DN16 for some more PAX laps. You can just see my mum (in her eightieth year) peering over the windscreen wiper.
Don't ask me about that line, I have no idea what was going on there...
Edited by ukkid35 on Saturday 8th October 21:20
I'd looked at the rebuild manual for the T5 and the bit that really concerns me is getting 5th gear off, theres a lot of talk of specialist pullers etc around on the internet. Some of the preload stuff is a bit beyond me at the moment but I'm sure I can learn about that. The other big issue for me is assessing worn components. If the gears are broken or chipped then its obvious but if they're a bit worn I'm not sure Id be able to make a decent assessment of whether theyre ok or bot, and if I've got to buy a new gearset and a rebuild kit I might as well pay for an exchange box as the gearbox man has them for sale for 1750 ish.
Sorry to hear you're gearbox is playing up Will, I smashed third in mine on the way home from Ace Cafe one evening in 2012..
aide said:
Just an update with a couple of final pics..
A sound bunch over there at gearboxman
Collected the rebuilt box on Friday and they kept the damaged parts for me to have a look at.
Turns out I blew third gear on both the main shaft and the third cog itself
A sound bunch over there at gearboxman
Collected the rebuilt box on Friday and they kept the damaged parts for me to have a look at.
Turns out I blew third gear on both the main shaft and the third cog itself
Well, you've definitely got a keeper there then ukkid35 said:
That's generous of you, but actually it was my own stupidity/negligence that resulted in the pilot bearing failure, and then input shaft failure.
Well I've had 2 previous chances to replace this bearing whilst I've owned the car and I only became aware of it's existence after yours failed. Definitely on the shopping list for this problem.Gearbox is now off the car.
I found the rear bearing race in this position which doesn't look right. It rubs on the 5th countershaft gear as shown i nthe 3rd pic, and enables a lot of output shaft play.
The input shaft gears also look worn to me but theres no chips or other damage.
Overall nothing too obvious, except possibly the rear bearing race. The oil was pretty dark in colour and had a noticeable amount of fine metal particles in it though.
I have just completed a full rebuild at home. As per above posts, Paul at 5 speeds.com is your friend. Buy the full rebuild kit and I would recommend his upgraded plate as well. Look on you tube for t5 transmission rebuild with Paul and Eric the car guy, there are two parts and it goes through the full strip down and rebuild.
To answer a few of your queries
With the covers off, you cant test any of the bearings or play. The rear cover actually houses the bearing you mention and the front input shaft cover sets the play or end float using shims behind the taper bearing race.
You will definitely need a shop press, dremmel grinder or similar (for front bearing race) and a bearing clamp (watch the video)
Other than that, I would recommend the pliers Paul supplier for the spring clips.
With 5 th gear, check for any obvious movement on the main shaft, I found mime actually had play and that was the issue so I needed to replace the main shaft. 5 th should be an extremely tight, shop press fit only.
I hope this helps.
To answer a few of your queries
With the covers off, you cant test any of the bearings or play. The rear cover actually houses the bearing you mention and the front input shaft cover sets the play or end float using shims behind the taper bearing race.
You will definitely need a shop press, dremmel grinder or similar (for front bearing race) and a bearing clamp (watch the video)
Other than that, I would recommend the pliers Paul supplier for the spring clips.
With 5 th gear, check for any obvious movement on the main shaft, I found mime actually had play and that was the issue so I needed to replace the main shaft. 5 th should be an extremely tight, shop press fit only.
I hope this helps.
Edited by greenracing on Sunday 9th October 20:28
Edited by greenracing on Sunday 9th October 20:30
I'd watched part 1 on youtube earlier. As I have access to a press and the other tools are cheap it seems a DIY rebuild is doable. The lack of description of rebuild kits from UK companies, inc TVR Parts, is annoying as theres cheaper alternatives to 5speeds kits but unless they contain the same components they're worthless.
Not found anyone cheaper for genuine bearings and all of the other associated parts. You also get the updated rings in Paul's kit, I would add sealant, pliers and uprated plate, makes the job easier and the box should last longer. Tvr parts worked out 40% more ( for the parts available) but even then didn't have everything you need
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