Solicitors - Buying a house. Help
Discussion
Ok story is we are trying to buy a house.
We have a solicitors which we have paid x amount in advance to do the usual work (which he says is none refundable).
Problem is as far as we can tell he's refusing to do any work.
His excuse is he's has not receive the contract from the vendors so he can not do anything. Now the vendors have sent 1 hard version, 1 faxed version and sent another hard version of the contract to him on Friday.
Our estate agent has been bending over backwards trying to get this all sorted.
I've been on the phone to everyone just about twice a day for the last 2 weeks trying to chase things/speed things up but have not got any were with him.
We are going to loose the house soon as the vendors are getting feed up with being messed about. If we loose the house, he keeps the money we have already paid him.
Does anyone know if who we could complain to (as far as I can tell its a small firm which he owns, so complaining to him just leads to him hanging up on me, again)?
Is there anyway to get our money back for the work that has not been done?
Anyway to prove he has the contract and just dragging his feet (the previous contracts have not been sent out recorded delivery).
Thanks (a very p!ssed off Eight)./
We have a solicitors which we have paid x amount in advance to do the usual work (which he says is none refundable).
Problem is as far as we can tell he's refusing to do any work.
His excuse is he's has not receive the contract from the vendors so he can not do anything. Now the vendors have sent 1 hard version, 1 faxed version and sent another hard version of the contract to him on Friday.
Our estate agent has been bending over backwards trying to get this all sorted.
I've been on the phone to everyone just about twice a day for the last 2 weeks trying to chase things/speed things up but have not got any were with him.
We are going to loose the house soon as the vendors are getting feed up with being messed about. If we loose the house, he keeps the money we have already paid him.
Does anyone know if who we could complain to (as far as I can tell its a small firm which he owns, so complaining to him just leads to him hanging up on me, again)?
Is there anyway to get our money back for the work that has not been done?
Anyway to prove he has the contract and just dragging his feet (the previous contracts have not been sent out recorded delivery).
Thanks (a very p!ssed off Eight)./
If you really, really want the house, get another Solicitor who you know will do it for you quickly. I don't know how much you have paid this guy but is losing the house going to be worth it?
Tell him you are instructing someone else and you want your money on account back or a bill with a full breakdown of exactly what work he has done to justify it. If he won't return your money and he hasn't done any work to justify it, report him to the Law Society.
The faxed copies will have a report produced by the fax machine when they are faxed. This should prove that they have been received by the fax number he has given.
Failing this, re-post contracts with a signature required at delivery. This would solve the problem. OK, it'll take a couple of days.
Alternatively, do it in person. Collect contracts from vendors solicitors, put them in your car
to your solicitors, get him to check everything while you are there, chew his ear off and go back to work. Hard if they are millions of miles away though, but the cost of a day off work for the sake of the house? May be worth it.
Oli.
Failing this, re-post contracts with a signature required at delivery. This would solve the problem. OK, it'll take a couple of days.
Alternatively, do it in person. Collect contracts from vendors solicitors, put them in your car
to your solicitors, get him to check everything while you are there, chew his ear off and go back to work. Hard if they are millions of miles away though, but the cost of a day off work for the sake of the house? May be worth it. Oli.
simpo two said:
Second that. Plus mayube try a Conveyancer - half the price and a bit more interested in shifting houses.
A little knowledge and even less thought is a dangerous thing.
Eight - e-mail me through my profile if you want any further advice but:-
The money he has asked for up front sounds to me like funds on account of searches, usually IRO £200-250.
You should have had a client care (Solicitor's Practice Rule 15) letter from him at the very start of the matter if he is a Solicitor or works for a firm of solicitors. You say he works for a small firm in which case there is unlikely to be a head of Property Department. You need to send a written complaint to him, as the phone is not working, and cc it to the Senior Partner. You might like to do this in person if this is easy to do and get the receptionist to sign a receipt for the letter or send it recorded delivery. Be brief, polite (even if it gauls you to be so) and to the point.
Also say what you reasonably expect to be done about it. Only if you are totally unsatisfied by the outcome of this should you report it to the Law Society.
In the short term, if they have not got back to you within the timescale you have asked them to do so, find another solicitor and send a letter to this bod telling him that you are withdrawing your instructions with immediate effect and that, as they obviously have not yet had to undertake any work or searches as they say they have not had the contract and have not sent you a plan of the property for approval, you look forward to the immediate return of the funds sent to then on account.
Should they not send you it all back ensure that you have a full detailed bill of costs.
You will get no-where with the Law Society if you can not prove that you tried to give the firm a reasonable chance to deal with the problem satisfactorily. Oh and remember to keep copies of all correspondence.
John
I hope you take this comment in the right spirit....I have bought and sold 3 houses in the last 3 years and every time the solicitor gets paid on completion, i.e. he takes his cut on pay day!
Would you pay a dentist before you had a filling? Would you pay a mechanic before he fixed your car?
Why pay a solicitor? He has absolutely no incentive to do the work....you already paid him!
Would you pay a dentist before you had a filling? Would you pay a mechanic before he fixed your car?
Why pay a solicitor? He has absolutely no incentive to do the work....you already paid him!
Not paid him fully but paid for some of the work. which I believe is for some of the searchs.
This raises another question now, he has cashed the cheques but has not applied for any of the searchs (he refuses to do any work at all until the he has the contracts). Is it normal practice to take the money before applying for the searchs?
This is our first house so was to fully aware of how things work.
We did do a little research, some people pay some of the fees up front, some pay the full amount at the end, so to us it was not really a problem.
Next time (if ever, hehe) we will know better
>> Edited by Eight on Monday 14th March 14:27
This raises another question now, he has cashed the cheques but has not applied for any of the searchs (he refuses to do any work at all until the he has the contracts). Is it normal practice to take the money before applying for the searchs?
This is our first house so was to fully aware of how things work.
We did do a little research, some people pay some of the fees up front, some pay the full amount at the end, so to us it was not really a problem.
Next time (if ever, hehe) we will know better
>> Edited by Eight on Monday 14th March 14:27
I used CountryWide Property Lawyers who are a "supermarket" chain of solicitors and I have had mixed experience with them. First purchase and sale was thru the Woking office and they were excellent. Last time was thru their Bridgend office and the first guy I was dealing with was a complete knob.
I wrote a letter complaining about his attitude and level of service and he was replaced.
People get intimidated by "professionals"...remember you are still the customer and if they are not doing what you want within your schedule then you should kick butt.
I wrote a letter complaining about his attitude and level of service and he was replaced.
People get intimidated by "professionals"...remember you are still the customer and if they are not doing what you want within your schedule then you should kick butt.
Yea Country Wide are the Vendors Solictors and the ones the Estate agents recomneds but we did not get chance to arrange a meeting with them (lots of things went wrong when we were suppose to have a meeting with them but thats another story) and we end up with the guy we are with now.
From what I can tell they have been great so far, it just our guy letting everyone down.
Ah well, see how things pan out this week
.
From what I can tell they have been great so far, it just our guy letting everyone down.
Ah well, see how things pan out this week
. Eight said:
Yea Country Wide are the Vendors Solictors and the ones the Estate agents recomneds but we did not get chance to arrange a meeting with them (lots of things went wrong when we were suppose to have a meeting with them but thats another story) and we end up with the guy we are with now.
From what I can tell they have been great so far, it just our guy letting everyone down.
Ah well, see how things pan out this week
I have a contact at countrywide, mail me if you want and i'll see if I can get some internal numbers for their conveyancers for you..
minimax said:
I have a kickback from countrywide, mail me if you want and i'll see if I can get some internal numbers for their conveyancers for you..
Tsk, sharking again
BTW - can I have the numbers to as I'm fed up of talking to the F
kwit 'case handlers' before I get the chance to speak to the one organ grinder who knows a deed of rectification from a rectum! rude-boy said:
I have a kickback from countrywide, mail me if you want and i'll see if I can get some internal numbers for their conveyancers for you..
Tsk, sharking again
BTW - can I have the numbers to as I'm fed up of talking to the F
I farking hate the muppets. I take business from c*ntrywide all the time, mainly because their panel is only 8 lenders and a packager and ours is independent with 5 packagers
I don't get anything at all from legals to them, i'd rather put the business to my own chaps but I won't tout on here
I know a chap who has very recently come over to the light from c*ntrywide so I'll see what I can dig up
Nice one Minimax.
I know you have found yourself a good bunch, even if they are 'bulkies'
Would be interested to hear any comments they have to pass on about their former employer, through my profile if you think PT might blush.
In my experiance there are a few mid size firms with one or two sols over seeing 3 or 4 Ilex or LC's who do the bulk job quite well. I just prefer to be able to give client's the time and personal touch that puts me in a position where I can't compete on price.
Even on the easist purchase I bank on at least 1hour face to face and 30 mins on the phone with them during the course of the matter. Virgins and special cases take a little longer.
At the end of the day the day most of my work comes through personal recomendation or from the indie agents.
rude-boy said:
simpo two said:
Second that. Plus mayube try a Conveyancer - half the price and a bit more interested in shifting houses.
A little knowledge and even less thought is a dangerous thing.
Thankyou. Somehow I guessed you might be a solicitor: I think the phrase is
... I'm sorry you had to defend you profession by attacking me. I've used Conveyancers for both my house purchases and found them highly efficient, quick and cost-effective. No point in paying £200ph for someone to stamp papers; it's overkill, unless the legal situation is complex.
Anyway, if I ever need one, there's one less to try.
>> Edited by simpo two on Monday 14th March 18:21
simpo two said:
simpo two said:
Second that. Plus mayube try a Conveyancer - half the price and a bit more interested in shifting houses.
A little knowledge and even less thought is a dangerous thing.
Thankyou. Somehow I guessed you might be a solicitor: I think the phrase is
Sorry that I obviously touched a nerve. I was not so much attacking you so much as expressing my exasperation at the continual tarring of the profession with the same brush.
Not all of us charge £200+vat ph - I'm £135+vat ph for example - and you would be surprised to find that often, unless you go to a city firm, your local solicitor is less than £100+vat more expensive than someone like C*ntrywide once you have added on any of the additional charges such as that for completing the SDLT1 and to discharge your mortgage etc. that they make.
As for 'Conveyancers' being more interested in bringing the matter to a swift completion you will find that the vast majority of legal advisers don't take their fees until completion. Some do insist on funds to cover pre-completion disbursements, such as searches, etc. which are paid out to third parties on the client's behalf. With around 50 different purchases per fee earner on at any one time and at £200 a throw this can stretch the firm's o/d quite a bit.
simpo two said:
I've used Conveyancers for both my house purchases and found them highly efficient, quick and cost-effective. No point in paying £200ph for someone to stamp papers; it's overkill, unless the legal situation is complex.
The term Conveyancers covers all legal advisers involved in the process of buying and selling land, Legal Execs., Licensed Conveyancers and Solicitors. Part of the reasoning behind my earlier comment!
At the end of the day almost anyone who knows what steps to follow can buy and sell land. The problem is protecting your liability when selling and ensuring that you are buying what you think you are, what rights you have and are they all that you need, what rights others have over your land, etc, etc.
Two examples:-
1. One routine question is "Does the Property contain any asbestos related products."
Answer "No" and if the Buyer completes, moves in and finds that the garage ceiling is made of asbestos sheets they can sue you for the cost of removal of this, plus damages if they have suffered any. It costs at least £1,000 to have asbestos removed and this can only be done by a specialist contractor. Plus you have the legal costs to foot the bill for as well.
If the Seller is unaware of any the "correct" answer is along these lines "Not so far as our client is aware but they have made no specific investigation in providing this response and the Buyer must make all reasonable and prudent investigations in respect of this and rely upon the results of their own surveys and any reports obtained. No warranty, either express or implied, can be given."
2. I have a client who went to a large, well known, company of "Property Lawyers" who didn't look at all the information in their hands and didn't ask an additional question when undertaking the Local Search. As a result my client has only just found out that the council is about to reinstate a footpath that runs right across their garden and 1m from their lounge window. I am waiting to hear full conformation of the effect this will have on the value of their property but early indications are in 5 figures.
The job that your conveyancer does is far more than stamping a few papers and making a few calls. To become a Solicitor you have to spend a minimum of 4 years at Uni followed by 2 years Training Contract. A good Conveyancer needs not only to consider Land Law implications on the matter in hand but also aspects of Contract Law, Trust Law, Environmental Law, Family Law, Probate and often Company Law to name a few.
It takes far less time to qualify as a Licensed Conveyancer or Legal Executive and they are subject to far less stringent legal and professional regulation. (That is not to say that there aren’t some brilliant ones out there and the majority are pretty good.)
A large part of my job is about knowing what to do when it hits the fan. If it all goes well you might wonder why you are paying more than that £350+vat quote you had. If it goes wrong you will find out.
simpo two said:
Anyway, if I ever need one, there's one less to try.
Sorry you feel this way, if you change your mind please let me know.
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