Unison sticks a £billion gun to our heads
Discussion
Staggering news. 1500 female Unison members in Cumbria have won a test case to be paid up to £200,000 each in back-dated "pay", to make up for unequal pay between sexes. So, anybody like to guess the total bill for every single woman in the public sector, and the effect this will have on our tax bills?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/4348405.stm
Unions claim £300m equal pay win
Equal value claims were lodged in August 1997
Union officials are claiming an equal pay settlement could mean more than 1,500 female health workers in Cumbria sharing a £300m payout.
Unison says the women could receive between £35,000 and £200,000 each, after the eight-year legal battle.
Union officials acted on behalf of staff employed by North Cumbria Acute Hospitals NHS Trust.
The trust has not yet put a figure on the deal - only confirming that a "settlement" has been reached.
The union Unison compared the pay of female staff, including nurses, domestics and telephonists, with that of male workers, including building labourers, maintenance assistants and supervisors.
Some of the women are likely to receive up to 14 years difference in pay.
Equal value claims were lodged in August 1997 for 14 different working categories.
We are pleased that a proposed agreement has been reached and I trust that this long standing issue will soon be resolved in a sensible manner
Trust chief executive, Marie Burnham
Unison general secretary Dave Prentis said: "It's been a long, hard struggle, but this is a fantastic result for the members involved.
"We have always argued that there has been historic pay discrimination in the health service against women. It's dreadful, though, that it has taken so long to get justice for these hard-working women who are the backbone of the NHS."
The trust runs two hospitals, the Cumberland Infirmary and the West Cumberland Hospital.
In a statement the trust said: "A proposed agreement has today been reached between North Cumbria Acute Hospitals NHS Trust and the trade unions regarding the long-standing equal value claims.
"This proposed agreement will now be presented and recommended by trade unions to the 1,500 staff members involved.
"If accepted by claimants the trust and the trade unions will work through how and when the claims will be paid."
Marie Burnham, trust chief executive, added: "We are pleased that a proposed agreement has been reached and I trust that this long standing issue will soon be resolved in a sensible manner."
Around 100 members have retired since the case began and they will be paid compensation as well as receiving better pensions.
Details of the settlement will be put to staff at a meeting in Carlisle next week.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/4348405.stm
Unions claim £300m equal pay win
Equal value claims were lodged in August 1997
Union officials are claiming an equal pay settlement could mean more than 1,500 female health workers in Cumbria sharing a £300m payout.
Unison says the women could receive between £35,000 and £200,000 each, after the eight-year legal battle.
Union officials acted on behalf of staff employed by North Cumbria Acute Hospitals NHS Trust.
The trust has not yet put a figure on the deal - only confirming that a "settlement" has been reached.
The union Unison compared the pay of female staff, including nurses, domestics and telephonists, with that of male workers, including building labourers, maintenance assistants and supervisors.
Some of the women are likely to receive up to 14 years difference in pay.
Equal value claims were lodged in August 1997 for 14 different working categories.
We are pleased that a proposed agreement has been reached and I trust that this long standing issue will soon be resolved in a sensible manner
Trust chief executive, Marie Burnham
Unison general secretary Dave Prentis said: "It's been a long, hard struggle, but this is a fantastic result for the members involved.
"We have always argued that there has been historic pay discrimination in the health service against women. It's dreadful, though, that it has taken so long to get justice for these hard-working women who are the backbone of the NHS."
The trust runs two hospitals, the Cumberland Infirmary and the West Cumberland Hospital.
In a statement the trust said: "A proposed agreement has today been reached between North Cumbria Acute Hospitals NHS Trust and the trade unions regarding the long-standing equal value claims.
"This proposed agreement will now be presented and recommended by trade unions to the 1,500 staff members involved.
"If accepted by claimants the trust and the trade unions will work through how and when the claims will be paid."
Marie Burnham, trust chief executive, added: "We are pleased that a proposed agreement has been reached and I trust that this long standing issue will soon be resolved in a sensible manner."
Around 100 members have retired since the case began and they will be paid compensation as well as receiving better pensions.
Details of the settlement will be put to staff at a meeting in Carlisle next week.
I don't follw this. so what unison are saying is that any jobs advertised will pay for example £20,000 for male applicants but only £15,000 for female applicants? bollox. that is simply not true.
If as I suspect they are saying that labourers get paid more than cleaners, and more men do labouring than cleaning well they're different jobs! why can't women be labourers and men do the cleaning jobs if they want? oh this stuff makes me want to
it really does 
If as I suspect they are saying that labourers get paid more than cleaners, and more men do labouring than cleaning well they're different jobs! why can't women be labourers and men do the cleaning jobs if they want? oh this stuff makes me want to
it really does 
It is equal pay for different jobs but the basis for the equal pay will be that after evaluation the jobs will be deemed to be of an equal skill level.
For example hotel porter (stereotypically male) might be compared with chamber maid (stereotypically female) and their jobs might be considered/evaluated as being 'equal' yet their pay may be different.
For example hotel porter (stereotypically male) might be compared with chamber maid (stereotypically female) and their jobs might be considered/evaluated as being 'equal' yet their pay may be different.
james_j said:
So this is equal pay for different jobs?
This is bonkers and smacks of typical labouresque political correctness which, of course, has to be paid for by the taxpayer.
I think it smacks of Marxism. Everybody has to be paid the same amount, regardless of what they actually do for a living. Market forces dictate that people who answer telephones don't get paid very well. People who answer telephones tend to be women rather than men. This isn't sexism, it's reality.
Some jobs which are deemed to be equal worth are lower paid because they are predominantly performed by women.
There is nothing new here and pharmacists (IIRC - but it could have been speech therapists) went through the same process and got a significant pay rise because of it. They demonstrated that a similar profession that was mainly male was paid significantly more.
I just wish the bloody Chartered Society of Physios would get off their arses and do the same. (Although I'm not so concerned now I work privately
)
There is nothing new here and pharmacists (IIRC - but it could have been speech therapists) went through the same process and got a significant pay rise because of it. They demonstrated that a similar profession that was mainly male was paid significantly more.
I just wish the bloody Chartered Society of Physios would get off their arses and do the same. (Although I'm not so concerned now I work privately
)Mon Ami Mate said:
So this is equal pay for different jobs?
This is bonkers and smacks of typical labouresque political correctness which, of course, has to be paid for by the taxpayer.
I think it smacks of Marxism. Everybody has to be paid the same amount, regardless of what they actually do for a living. Market forces dictate that people who answer telephones don't get paid very well. People who answer telephones tend to be women rather than men. This isn't sexism, it's reality.
What you say is right but the whole point of the SDA and the tools for evaluation is to find a job that equates to that of a telephonist/receptionist within the same organisation and then to look at the salaries. Nobody is suggesting that a receptionist in A&E deserves the same pay as anyone with clinical expertise but take nurses pay as a whole in general then compare it to pay in the police, fire service or even teachers and you can understand why they feel undervalued.
I do have a lot of sympathy for nurses, but not sure about cleaning staff. If you don't want to be a cleaner it should not be heard to get a little training and do something better.
Nurses have to do the training and loads of really horrible work for scummy 'customers' and still get paid peanuts.
Years ago I got a job as Operating Theatre Porter, my main responsibility was to bring patients from the wards (in their beds) down to the theatre and then take them back up after thier operations.
I had bugger all training as it is not complicated to push a bed, I had zero stress as all i had to do was push a bed. I got paid substantially more than the nurses with three years experience and probably double or triple what a first year nurse was making.
I could not understand it at all, it was quite embarassing actually.
Then again, if they had wanted to be porters instead of nurses I am sure there is nothing stopping them.
Nurses have to do the training and loads of really horrible work for scummy 'customers' and still get paid peanuts.
Years ago I got a job as Operating Theatre Porter, my main responsibility was to bring patients from the wards (in their beds) down to the theatre and then take them back up after thier operations.
I had bugger all training as it is not complicated to push a bed, I had zero stress as all i had to do was push a bed. I got paid substantially more than the nurses with three years experience and probably double or triple what a first year nurse was making.
I could not understand it at all, it was quite embarassing actually.
Then again, if they had wanted to be porters instead of nurses I am sure there is nothing stopping them.
I assumed (stupidly) from the headlines on the BBC that women cleaners in the NHS were getting paid less for doing exactly the same job as male cleaners in the NHS.
OK, can't complain that the difference should be redressed.
But hang on, from reading these posts are you saying that we've all got to fork out to pay yet more to all these women (£35k upwards) because someone reckons now that a cleaning job done by a women should have been worth the same as a plastering job done by a man????
Bl**dy h*ll. What the hell is going on here? What utter crap.
I earn less than my neighbour who's an optometrist and have to be intelligent and work longer hours than she does. Does this mean I can claim the approx £200k that she has earned more than me in the last 10 years?
No. Thought not.
Bitter'n'twisted said:
But hang on, from reading these posts are you saying that we've all got to fork out to pay yet more to all these women (£35k upwards) because someone reckons now that a cleaning job done by a women should have been worth the same as a plastering job done by a man????
Bl**dy h*ll. What the hell is going on here? What utter crap.
Where does the article make a direct comparison like that? Bitter'n'twisted said:
I earn less than my neighbour who's an optometrist and have to be intelligent and work longer hours than she does. Does this mean I can claim the approx £200k that she has earned more than me in the last 10 years?
No. Thought not.
What do you do and who do you work for? If you don't work for the NHS then that's irrelevant.
mechsympathy said:
But hang on, from reading these posts are you saying that we've all got to fork out to pay yet more to all these women (£35k upwards) because someone reckons now that a cleaning job done by a women should have been worth the same as a plastering job done by a man????
Bl**dy h*ll. What the hell is going on here? What utter crap.
Bitter'n'twisted said:
I earn less than my neighbour who's an optometrist and have to be intelligent and work longer hours than she does. Does this mean I can claim the approx £200k that she has earned more than me in the last 10 years?
No. Thought not.
What do you do and who do you work for? If you don't work for the NHS then that's irrelevant.
James J said - 'Same pay for different jobs'.
As I said, from reading THESE POSTS that is how it looks. If that's not what it is, then maybe it is ok and the above posts were wrong?
Also, that was my point about the optometrist neighbour earning more than me. ie it is irrelevant.
This again was based on the above posts saying that different jobs were now going to be paid the same money. Not only that but for years gone by.
Surely all that is important is that in any job the pay largely reflects the availability of staff and the responsibility? Not whether it is a bloke or a woman doing the job. The POSTS ABOVE suggested to me otherwise.
Bitter'n'twisted said:
Surely all that is important is that in any job the pay largely reflects the availability of staff and the responsibility? Not whether it is a bloke or a woman doing the job. The POSTS ABOVE suggested to me otherwise.
Absolutely. And sorry I didn't mean to get at you specifically, just the misconceptions going on (in, as you say, the posts above
)Gassing Station | The Pie & Piston Archive | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff