TDV6 vs. SDV6??
Discussion
I'm hoping to order a new FFRR Autobiography 3.0TDV6 later this week (assuming a deal can be agreed) & had a question about the engine differences across the range.
I've never owned anything in the JLR stable so am very new to these vehicles & as such this engine difference is confusing me.
Apparently the 306bhp SDV6 is available in the RRS but not the FFRR which gets the TDV6 at 258bhp. How come this isn't the other way round or the higher power SDV6 at least being available on the FFRR?
On paper the differences are somewhat unusual as it appears the lower power V6 is only 1/2sec slower to 60, even though it's in the bigger RR variant. It's also more economical by a couple of MPG.
Having had an extended test drive in a FFRR Vogue SE with the TDV6 engine, which I thought was fantastic, how come the higher power V6 doesn't show in the range? Is one engine newer than the other or the higher power V6 too close to the 4.4V8 & they need to shift at least some of the V8 Diesels.
I also noticed a slight difference in road tests as some show the TDV6 last year as being 254bhp & being 7.8/9 secs to 60, but the MY16/17 appears to be 258bhp & 1/2 sec quicker, so has the TDV6 received a slight tweak in the last year or just a reporting anomaly?
Thanks in advance.
I've never owned anything in the JLR stable so am very new to these vehicles & as such this engine difference is confusing me.
Apparently the 306bhp SDV6 is available in the RRS but not the FFRR which gets the TDV6 at 258bhp. How come this isn't the other way round or the higher power SDV6 at least being available on the FFRR?
On paper the differences are somewhat unusual as it appears the lower power V6 is only 1/2sec slower to 60, even though it's in the bigger RR variant. It's also more economical by a couple of MPG.
Having had an extended test drive in a FFRR Vogue SE with the TDV6 engine, which I thought was fantastic, how come the higher power V6 doesn't show in the range? Is one engine newer than the other or the higher power V6 too close to the 4.4V8 & they need to shift at least some of the V8 Diesels.
I also noticed a slight difference in road tests as some show the TDV6 last year as being 254bhp & being 7.8/9 secs to 60, but the MY16/17 appears to be 258bhp & 1/2 sec quicker, so has the TDV6 received a slight tweak in the last year or just a reporting anomaly?
Thanks in advance.
I don't have an answer to your engine query but I was considering a FFRR but ended up with a RRS V6 a week ago. The V6 FFRR doesn't have adaptive dynamics with the hydraulic roll bars which makes a massive difference to the handling, I didn't want a V8 daily hence ended up with the RRS V6.
I thought the V6 FFRR handled like a barge where as the V8 was a considerable improvement in dynamic mode.
I thought the V6 FFRR handled like a barge where as the V8 was a considerable improvement in dynamic mode.
I'm not sure why the different engines are/are not available in the different models, however They will be the same mechanical engine if a 3.0l twin turbo diesel. Just with different states of tune.
In the D4, the earlier 3.0l diesel was badged TDV6 and 245bhp. They were then changed to SDV6 and 245/255bhp but all the same engines. Early didn't have dpf, then it was added, then add blue added on last models
It's not as simple as that, but you get the picture. Clear as mud...
In the D4, the earlier 3.0l diesel was badged TDV6 and 245bhp. They were then changed to SDV6 and 245/255bhp but all the same engines. Early didn't have dpf, then it was added, then add blue added on last models
It's not as simple as that, but you get the picture. Clear as mud...
Thanks. The facelift is for MY17 which are now being built, but no new engines, just a change to the front lights, a new Infotainment system (much needed) & a couple of other minor enhancements.
I really can't see why they'd put a higher powered engine in the smaller vehicle, albeit the numbers tell a different story as with a 50bhp deficit for the FFRR but only 1/2 sec slower to 60 but in a much bigger vehicle, perhaps it's the better suited engine but it still confuses me.
Have read everywhere than the V8 Diesel in FFRR guise is not a liked power plant as feels old, noisy & the extra weight hinders front end performance & for such a tiny performance advantage with a horrific disadvantage in economy along with them being difficult to shift used, you'd think a higher powered V6 Diesel which is available in the JLR range would be perfect for the FFRR, so i wonder why it isn't.
Having driven 2 of these now i'm happy they do everything i'd need from the vehicle & more, as currently owning & having owned very fast performance saloons etc. this next purchase would be totally left field so no interest in traffic light GP's & backroad blasts, the idea of a luxury cruise for my longer journeys is the draw.
I really can't see why they'd put a higher powered engine in the smaller vehicle, albeit the numbers tell a different story as with a 50bhp deficit for the FFRR but only 1/2 sec slower to 60 but in a much bigger vehicle, perhaps it's the better suited engine but it still confuses me.
Have read everywhere than the V8 Diesel in FFRR guise is not a liked power plant as feels old, noisy & the extra weight hinders front end performance & for such a tiny performance advantage with a horrific disadvantage in economy along with them being difficult to shift used, you'd think a higher powered V6 Diesel which is available in the JLR range would be perfect for the FFRR, so i wonder why it isn't.
Having driven 2 of these now i'm happy they do everything i'd need from the vehicle & more, as currently owning & having owned very fast performance saloons etc. this next purchase would be totally left field so no interest in traffic light GP's & backroad blasts, the idea of a luxury cruise for my longer journeys is the draw.
The SDV8 in the ffrr is the most common engine , have you driven one its a beauty has more power than the v6 and very similar mpg. As for difficult to move on rubbish its the engine of choice.
Also you would be surprised that the sport is hardly any smaller than the vogue check the figures. imo the Vogue is in a class well above the Sport.
Also you would be surprised that the sport is hardly any smaller than the vogue check the figures. imo the Vogue is in a class well above the Sport.
cayman-black said:
The SDV8 in the ffrr is the most common engine , have you driven one its a beauty has more power than the v6 and very similar mpg. As for difficult to move on rubbish its the engine of choice.
Also you would be surprised that the sport is hardly any smaller than the vogue check the figures. imo the Vogue is in a class well above the Sport.
That's honestly the first time i've heard this, but i've not driven the SDV8. Even the motoring press appear to favour the TDV6 over the SDV8. Performance difference is less than a second to 62, but economy is vastly different with about an 8+mpg reduction for the SDV8. Also reports that the smaller lump in the FFRR makes for a smoother on road experience.Also you would be surprised that the sport is hardly any smaller than the vogue check the figures. imo the Vogue is in a class well above the Sport.
Maybe i should try one before making any decision, but 2 dealers told me the SDV8 is less desirable on the used market than the TDV6, however point taken that as i was looking at the TDV6 i should have taken that comment with a pinch of salt. Not sure it's worthy of the extra £7k in price though but will try one to be sure.
W8PMC said:
cayman-black said:
The SDV8 in the ffrr is the most common engine , have you driven one its a beauty has more power than the v6 and very similar mpg. As for difficult to move on rubbish its the engine of choice.
Also you would be surprised that the sport is hardly any smaller than the vogue check the figures. imo the Vogue is in a class well above the Sport.
That's honestly the first time i've heard this, but i've not driven the SDV8. Even the motoring press appear to favour the TDV6 over the SDV8. Performance difference is less than a second to 62, but economy is vastly different with about an 8+mpg reduction for the SDV8. Also reports that the smaller lump in the FFRR makes for a smoother on road experience.Also you would be surprised that the sport is hardly any smaller than the vogue check the figures. imo the Vogue is in a class well above the Sport.
Maybe i should try one before making any decision, but 2 dealers told me the SDV8 is less desirable on the used market than the TDV6, however point taken that as i was looking at the TDV6 i should have taken that comment with a pinch of salt. Not sure it's worthy of the extra £7k in price though but will try one to be sure.
OP
In answer to your original question, it's down to marketing. The higher powered V6 diesel in the RRS would be too close in BHP to the V8 diesel in the FFRR. I don't know if you have noticed but there is now a supercharged petrol V6 offered for the FFRR no doubt performance spec'd by marketing.
I'm on my 4th FFRR, it's a L405 SDV8 AB bought new in Sept 16 and it's averaged 30MPG over 20k miles. The 'ideal' FFRR would probably be the SDV6 with 306BHP and the Active Dynamics (AD). Only the V8's are offered with the Active Dynamics (another marketing ploy) and it makes a big difference to the handling, Some say the lighter V6's don't need AD but I disagree because AD enhances the handling tremendously.
Others say that the V6 is smoother than the V8, which it may be, but you need higher revs in the V6 to achieve th same performance in the V8. Subsequently when driving normally I hardly hear the engine noise in my V8, it's a leisurely to drive and has plenty of acceleration when needed. Just look at the torque on the V8, at 700NM that's what makes the difference to how they drive. The above is based on experience of driving both models and I couldn't wait to give the L405 V6 back after 3 days and get back in to the MY11 4.4 TDV8 L322 I had at the time.
Drive both. Don't worry about comparative resale values, focus more on which one you like to drive. We all get fleeced by JLR when it comes to depreciation. Buy something less expensive if depreciation is important.
In answer to your original question, it's down to marketing. The higher powered V6 diesel in the RRS would be too close in BHP to the V8 diesel in the FFRR. I don't know if you have noticed but there is now a supercharged petrol V6 offered for the FFRR no doubt performance spec'd by marketing.
I'm on my 4th FFRR, it's a L405 SDV8 AB bought new in Sept 16 and it's averaged 30MPG over 20k miles. The 'ideal' FFRR would probably be the SDV6 with 306BHP and the Active Dynamics (AD). Only the V8's are offered with the Active Dynamics (another marketing ploy) and it makes a big difference to the handling, Some say the lighter V6's don't need AD but I disagree because AD enhances the handling tremendously.
Others say that the V6 is smoother than the V8, which it may be, but you need higher revs in the V6 to achieve th same performance in the V8. Subsequently when driving normally I hardly hear the engine noise in my V8, it's a leisurely to drive and has plenty of acceleration when needed. Just look at the torque on the V8, at 700NM that's what makes the difference to how they drive. The above is based on experience of driving both models and I couldn't wait to give the L405 V6 back after 3 days and get back in to the MY11 4.4 TDV8 L322 I had at the time.
Drive both. Don't worry about comparative resale values, focus more on which one you like to drive. We all get fleeced by JLR when it comes to depreciation. Buy something less expensive if depreciation is important.
Phil. said:
OP
In answer to your original question, it's down to marketing. The higher powered V6 diesel in the RRS would be too close in BHP to the V8 diesel in the FFRR. I don't know if you have noticed but there is now a supercharged petrol V6 offered for the FFRR no doubt performance spec'd by marketing.
I'm on my 4th FFRR, it's a L405 SDV8 AB bought new in Sept 16 and it's averaged 30MPG over 20k miles. The 'ideal' FFRR would probably be the SDV6 with 306BHP and the Active Dynamics (AD). Only the V8's are offered with the Active Dynamics (another marketing ploy) and it makes a big difference to the handling, Some say the lighter V6's don't need AD but I disagree because AD enhances the handling tremendously.
Others say that the V6 is smoother than the V8, which it may be, but you need higher revs in the V6 to achieve th same performance in the V8. Subsequently when driving normally I hardly hear the engine noise in my V8, it's a leisurely to drive and has plenty of acceleration when needed. Just look at the torque on the V8, at 700NM that's what makes the difference to how they drive. The above is based on experience of driving both models and I couldn't wait to give the L405 V6 back after 3 days and get back in to the MY11 4.4 TDV8 L322 I had at the time.
Drive both. Don't worry about comparative resale values, focus more on which one you like to drive. We all get fleeced by JLR when it comes to depreciation. Buy something less expensive if depreciation is important.
Thanks. I'd never factored in Active Dynamics as wasn't something that jumped out as needed on such a vehicle, albeit like most mine would spend 95% of its time on road. Also hadn't spotted Active Dymanics on the options list so i'll take a look.In answer to your original question, it's down to marketing. The higher powered V6 diesel in the RRS would be too close in BHP to the V8 diesel in the FFRR. I don't know if you have noticed but there is now a supercharged petrol V6 offered for the FFRR no doubt performance spec'd by marketing.
I'm on my 4th FFRR, it's a L405 SDV8 AB bought new in Sept 16 and it's averaged 30MPG over 20k miles. The 'ideal' FFRR would probably be the SDV6 with 306BHP and the Active Dynamics (AD). Only the V8's are offered with the Active Dynamics (another marketing ploy) and it makes a big difference to the handling, Some say the lighter V6's don't need AD but I disagree because AD enhances the handling tremendously.
Others say that the V6 is smoother than the V8, which it may be, but you need higher revs in the V6 to achieve th same performance in the V8. Subsequently when driving normally I hardly hear the engine noise in my V8, it's a leisurely to drive and has plenty of acceleration when needed. Just look at the torque on the V8, at 700NM that's what makes the difference to how they drive. The above is based on experience of driving both models and I couldn't wait to give the L405 V6 back after 3 days and get back in to the MY11 4.4 TDV8 L322 I had at the time.
Drive both. Don't worry about comparative resale values, focus more on which one you like to drive. We all get fleeced by JLR when it comes to depreciation. Buy something less expensive if depreciation is important.
For obvious reasons this purchase is being driven by a desire for the ultimate vehicle to spend lengthy driving time in as most of my need is for 500 mile round trips from Lancs to Suffolk so performance really is a limited requirement, been there & done that so now looking at something completely different & that was the draw of the V6 Diesel with ample performance twinned with great economy. Most of that lengthy drive is Motorway & Dual Carriageway so handling although important isn't as high on the list as comfort, hence looking only at the AB.
Depreciation also isn't a deciding factor, albeit it is important as having owned numerous performance saloons, they're the epitome of heavy depreciators so i'd like to take a step away from that scenario.
Phil. said:
OP
In answer to your original question, it's down to marketing. The higher powered V6 diesel in the RRS would be too close in BHP to the V8 diesel in the FFRR. I don't know if you have noticed but there is now a supercharged petrol V6 offered for the FFRR no doubt performance spec'd by marketing.
I'm on my 4th FFRR, it's a L405 SDV8 AB bought new in Sept 16 and it's averaged 30MPG over 20k miles. The 'ideal' FFRR would probably be the SDV6 with 306BHP and the Active Dynamics (AD). Only the V8's are offered with the Active Dynamics (another marketing ploy) and it makes a big difference to the handling, Some say the lighter V6's don't need AD but I disagree because AD enhances the handling tremendously.
Others say that the V6 is smoother than the V8, which it may be, but you need higher revs in the V6 to achieve th same performance in the V8. Subsequently when driving normally I hardly hear the engine noise in my V8, it's a leisurely to drive and has plenty of acceleration when needed. Just look at the torque on the V8, at 700NM that's what makes the difference to how they drive. The above is based on experience of driving both models and I couldn't wait to give the L405 V6 back after 3 days and get back in to the MY11 4.4 TDV8 L322 I had at the time.
Drive both. Don't worry about comparative resale values, focus more on which one you like to drive. We all get fleeced by JLR when it comes to depreciation. Buy something less expensive if depreciation is important.
Just checking the specs & do you mean Adaptive Dynamics? This appears to be standard on all FFRR's now.In answer to your original question, it's down to marketing. The higher powered V6 diesel in the RRS would be too close in BHP to the V8 diesel in the FFRR. I don't know if you have noticed but there is now a supercharged petrol V6 offered for the FFRR no doubt performance spec'd by marketing.
I'm on my 4th FFRR, it's a L405 SDV8 AB bought new in Sept 16 and it's averaged 30MPG over 20k miles. The 'ideal' FFRR would probably be the SDV6 with 306BHP and the Active Dynamics (AD). Only the V8's are offered with the Active Dynamics (another marketing ploy) and it makes a big difference to the handling, Some say the lighter V6's don't need AD but I disagree because AD enhances the handling tremendously.
Others say that the V6 is smoother than the V8, which it may be, but you need higher revs in the V6 to achieve th same performance in the V8. Subsequently when driving normally I hardly hear the engine noise in my V8, it's a leisurely to drive and has plenty of acceleration when needed. Just look at the torque on the V8, at 700NM that's what makes the difference to how they drive. The above is based on experience of driving both models and I couldn't wait to give the L405 V6 back after 3 days and get back in to the MY11 4.4 TDV8 L322 I had at the time.
Drive both. Don't worry about comparative resale values, focus more on which one you like to drive. We all get fleeced by JLR when it comes to depreciation. Buy something less expensive if depreciation is important.
W8PMC said:
Just checking the specs & do you mean Adaptive Dynamics? This appears to be standard on all FFRR's now.
Apologies, my error. I mean Dynamic Response. It's only fitted on the V8's and it's not an option on the V6. It stabilises the RR on road and makes a big difference to the driving experience by actively reducing roll around corners. Phil. said:
This is what I meant in my post above. It makes a massive difference, I thought I didn't want performance in a vehicle of this type but enough lemmings on the road to need some performance to get past. B.J.W said:
The V6 is far more popular than the V8 (although the latter is superb). The V8's stick on the forecourt and they are an embargo car for straight buy backs (which says it all). The V6's hold value better as well and a standard/nicely specked car doesn't sit around for long. Some customers will default to a V8 in a RR, but more buy the V6.
Sorry but there is no way that the v6 is far more popular, there might not be much in it but far more no way. V6 s hold there value better again i don't think so. I like the V6 engine but i thought the SDV8 was superb and far more suited to the big Rangie imo of course! OP you need to go here to find out more about these. www.fullfatrr.com
Only reason why the v6s hold their value better as they're the cheaper car to buy and its down to percentages.
Regarding mpg, I had a rrs l494 v6 on an extended loan a while back.....did 4000 miles in it and averaged 31mpg. Im now on 45k miles in my sdv8 l405 and have averaged 30.8mpg over that mileage. There really is little in it and the v6 felt gutless at motorway speeds although granted, the v6 has better refinement. (Although the slght gruffness is part of the charm of the v8 for me).
Add in the extra cornering prowess and the general sense of wellbeing of the sdv8 and it a no brainer in my opinion.
Regarding mpg, I had a rrs l494 v6 on an extended loan a while back.....did 4000 miles in it and averaged 31mpg. Im now on 45k miles in my sdv8 l405 and have averaged 30.8mpg over that mileage. There really is little in it and the v6 felt gutless at motorway speeds although granted, the v6 has better refinement. (Although the slght gruffness is part of the charm of the v8 for me).
Add in the extra cornering prowess and the general sense of wellbeing of the sdv8 and it a no brainer in my opinion.
Aeroresh said:
Only reason why the v6s hold their value better as they're the cheaper car to buy and its down to percentages.
Regarding mpg, I had a rrs l494 v6 on an extended loan a while back.....did 4000 miles in it and averaged 31mpg. Im now on 45k miles in my sdv8 l405 and have averaged 30.8mpg over that mileage. There really is little in it and the v6 felt gutless at motorway speeds although granted, the v6 has better refinement. (Although the slght gruffness is part of the charm of the v8 for me).
Add in the extra cornering prowess and the general sense of wellbeing of the sdv8 and it a no brainer in my opinion.
But is it really worth the extra money? As i see it the V8's older technology & many say including owners, a little rough around the edges which surely isn't ideal for such a luxury vehicle? On paper the sprint differences are about .7secs which is hardly ground breaking, yet the cost of the extra power is a drop in economy of around 8mpg. Now granted RR could be playing down the V8's performance in the hope they sell more V6's, but given both are North of £100k with a few toys, does the V8 really command a £7k premium?Regarding mpg, I had a rrs l494 v6 on an extended loan a while back.....did 4000 miles in it and averaged 31mpg. Im now on 45k miles in my sdv8 l405 and have averaged 30.8mpg over that mileage. There really is little in it and the v6 felt gutless at motorway speeds although granted, the v6 has better refinement. (Although the slght gruffness is part of the charm of the v8 for me).
Add in the extra cornering prowess and the general sense of wellbeing of the sdv8 and it a no brainer in my opinion.
It's a serious question as i've not driven the V8, but could alter my order over the next few weeks. The idea of a V8 is kind of nice as i've owned many, but that seems lost in the fact it's a diesel & in a FFRR which the term cornering prowess i find a strange one as surely that's hardly the purpose of the vehicle, intended or implied.
Shuffles off to look at the forum mentioned above
It is worth it in my opinion, I ummed and arhed for ages when I specced mine knowing I'd be doing biggish mileage but nearly 3 years down the line I know I made the right choice for me.
The v6 is fine if the car's mission statement is to just bumble round in luxury, however if you enjoy driving it the v8 is the only way. It even sounds like a range rover should. I see the v6 as (dare I say it) the WAGs choice!
Have a proper go of the V8 and it should be clearer.
The v6 is fine if the car's mission statement is to just bumble round in luxury, however if you enjoy driving it the v8 is the only way. It even sounds like a range rover should. I see the v6 as (dare I say it) the WAGs choice!
Have a proper go of the V8 and it should be clearer.
hilly10 said:
I have the SDV6 in my 15 Disco and it's no slouch so in 308bhp tune To OP are you.Paul Clarkson from the TTForum a fair few years ago
Evening & yes that's me. How are you doing?Edited by hilly10 on Sunday 30th October 20:09
Thing is, the SDV6 isn't available on the FFRR, only the Sport which in itself I find very strange. Why put the more powerful engine in the smaller & lower premium vehicle? I think that would be the perfect engine but sadly not available so limited to the TDV6 with 260bhp, or the SDV8 with 335.
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