Discussion
All,
Having trouble locating the source of a fuel smell.
Only occurs whilst driving with the windows down. Seems to get worse at higher engine loads.
When I stop the car and look around the engine bay and underneath there is no smell and no visible leaks.
Have checked the pipes coming into the engine bay and around the fuel rails with the engine running and with some throttle on but can't find anything.
It's a concern as there could be fuel leaking.
I don't know much about the carbon canister but understand it is not serviced in any way. It's in the OS front wing so can fumes be emitted from that if there is a problem ? Understand there is a solenoid with the can. When does that operate and what does it do ?
Hoses through the wings have been moved about recently as the car has had a full respray but they all look good in the engine bay at least.
Having trouble locating the source of a fuel smell.
Only occurs whilst driving with the windows down. Seems to get worse at higher engine loads.
When I stop the car and look around the engine bay and underneath there is no smell and no visible leaks.
Have checked the pipes coming into the engine bay and around the fuel rails with the engine running and with some throttle on but can't find anything.
It's a concern as there could be fuel leaking.
I don't know much about the carbon canister but understand it is not serviced in any way. It's in the OS front wing so can fumes be emitted from that if there is a problem ? Understand there is a solenoid with the can. When does that operate and what does it do ?
Hoses through the wings have been moved about recently as the car has had a full respray but they all look good in the engine bay at least.
Sweep the floor clean and then run a constant live to the fuel pump, if it's leaking you should find it in a couple of minutes. There's an option in rovergauge to do this, but you could also do it by jumping the pins on the relay or just running a wire back to the pump from the battery.
This was a constant problem on my Griffith, If the two visible rubber fuel hoses in the engine bay are OK then the main problem areas are the short rubber hose hidden at the rear of the plenum by the bulkhead that is sometimes forgotten and the joint between the main copper fuel line and rubber hose on the off side by the side of the gearbox, you need the car on a lift to see this easily. The latter is the high pressure feed and was the main problem area on my car.
After several leaks I ripped the whole lot out and replaced the lines see:
http://www.bertram-hill.com/replacing-the-fuel-lin...
After several leaks I ripped the whole lot out and replaced the lines see:
http://www.bertram-hill.com/replacing-the-fuel-lin...
Thanks all,
Just the job. I'll check those.
The weird / annoying thing is that when the car is stationary but still idling, I can't smell it anywhere. I've stuck my nose under the sills, in the boot, in the engine bay and under the front and rear bumper area but nothing.
Tried revving it up from the engine bay and nothing.
Get back in and drive and it comes back again strongly.
No dripping and no wet patches under the car.
If I drive with the windows shut, no smell.
Just the job. I'll check those.
The weird / annoying thing is that when the car is stationary but still idling, I can't smell it anywhere. I've stuck my nose under the sills, in the boot, in the engine bay and under the front and rear bumper area but nothing.
Tried revving it up from the engine bay and nothing.
Get back in and drive and it comes back again strongly.
No dripping and no wet patches under the car.
If I drive with the windows shut, no smell.
It may well just be over-fuelling.
I often get this type of smell on track days, and I think the fuel map on the 14 CUX is set a bit rich.
Try to notice exactly when you get the smell, ie what you are doing at the time, and post the results on here.
Only other thoughts are possibly a faulty lambda sensor or an ignition issue.
It might be an idea to have a look at all the plugs, also checking that the leads are properly on, and to see if you have one not firing properly.
The plug leads do pop off the plugs occasionally (especially the number 8 one) and the extenders are a major source of problems.
If you are running on 7 you really wouldn't notice it, and 12.5% of your fuel will be going down the exhaust unburnt.
I often get this type of smell on track days, and I think the fuel map on the 14 CUX is set a bit rich.
Try to notice exactly when you get the smell, ie what you are doing at the time, and post the results on here.
Only other thoughts are possibly a faulty lambda sensor or an ignition issue.
It might be an idea to have a look at all the plugs, also checking that the leads are properly on, and to see if you have one not firing properly.
The plug leads do pop off the plugs occasionally (especially the number 8 one) and the extenders are a major source of problems.
If you are running on 7 you really wouldn't notice it, and 12.5% of your fuel will be going down the exhaust unburnt.
QBee said:
It may well just be over-fuelling.
I often get this type of smell on track days, and I think the fuel map on the 14 CUX is set a bit rich.
Try to notice exactly when you get the smell, ie what you are doing at the time, and post the results on here.
Only other thoughts are possibly a faulty lambda sensor or an ignition issue.
It might be an idea to have a look at all the plugs, also checking that the leads are properly on, and to see if you have one not firing properly.
The plug leads do pop off the plugs occasionally (especially the number 8 one) and the extenders are a major source of problems.
If you are running on 7 you really wouldn't notice it, and 12.5% of your fuel will be going down the exhaust unburnt.
Don't notice it on start up but usually within a minute or so of driving. Larger throttle openings seems to make it worse, e.g. going up hills, but then after that the smell stays strong even on overrun.I often get this type of smell on track days, and I think the fuel map on the 14 CUX is set a bit rich.
Try to notice exactly when you get the smell, ie what you are doing at the time, and post the results on here.
Only other thoughts are possibly a faulty lambda sensor or an ignition issue.
It might be an idea to have a look at all the plugs, also checking that the leads are properly on, and to see if you have one not firing properly.
The plug leads do pop off the plugs occasionally (especially the number 8 one) and the extenders are a major source of problems.
If you are running on 7 you really wouldn't notice it, and 12.5% of your fuel will be going down the exhaust unburnt.
Have deleted the extenders and have standard leads protected by thermal socks. Will check the leads are secure on the plugs.
Can anyone tell me when the solenoid on the carbon can is supposed to operate and how that system works.
I understand that the tank vents to the carbon can but the engine can draw fumes back out of the can into the inlet to burn them off. I am told there is other hose to the can that is open ended - presumably to let air into the can when the engine starts to draw air out of the can. Is that all correct ?
I can see the can and pipes and eletrical connections in the inner wing. The pipes all look healthy.
There is a hole drilled in the os wing near to the coolant tank. Is this supposed to have the vent hose coming out into the engine bay ? Someone has suggested that the open-ended hose should be poking out of the wing into the engine bay and if it isn't, this could be where the fuel smell is coming from as it is venting into the car.
Is there a 1-way valve on the open tube inlet to the can ? I thought it was only supposed to let air into the can and no fumes should come out of the can via this tube.
I understand that the tank vents to the carbon can but the engine can draw fumes back out of the can into the inlet to burn them off. I am told there is other hose to the can that is open ended - presumably to let air into the can when the engine starts to draw air out of the can. Is that all correct ?
I can see the can and pipes and eletrical connections in the inner wing. The pipes all look healthy.
There is a hole drilled in the os wing near to the coolant tank. Is this supposed to have the vent hose coming out into the engine bay ? Someone has suggested that the open-ended hose should be poking out of the wing into the engine bay and if it isn't, this could be where the fuel smell is coming from as it is venting into the car.
Is there a 1-way valve on the open tube inlet to the can ? I thought it was only supposed to let air into the can and no fumes should come out of the can via this tube.
My understanding of the system.
The vent pipe from the tank goes into a roll-over valve.
From there it goes to the carbon canister.
A pipe from the canister vents to atmosphere.
A valve on the canister connects to the plenum.
The tank breathes in and out via the canister and its short pipe but any vapour from the tank is captured in the carbon.
The ECU will decide when to open the valve letting vacuum draw fresh air (via the short pipe) through the canister taking with it the vapour to be burned off.
I don't know what event triggers the ECU.
Steve
The vent pipe from the tank goes into a roll-over valve.
From there it goes to the carbon canister.
A pipe from the canister vents to atmosphere.
A valve on the canister connects to the plenum.
The tank breathes in and out via the canister and its short pipe but any vapour from the tank is captured in the carbon.
The ECU will decide when to open the valve letting vacuum draw fresh air (via the short pipe) through the canister taking with it the vapour to be burned off.
I don't know what event triggers the ECU.
Steve
When these ECU systems first came out on early Saxos, Clios and similar with carbon canisters, they were simply controlled by the throttle position sensor/switch. When closed the canister valve was not activated. Once the throttle was pressed the valve was opened.
I don't know what Rovergauge tells you (never used it) but if the valve is in the menu it could be a way to find out when its activated. Or use a meter and try and determine when voltage is supplied to the valve.
I don't know what Rovergauge tells you (never used it) but if the valve is in the menu it could be a way to find out when its activated. Or use a meter and try and determine when voltage is supplied to the valve.
Not sure if this happens on the Chimaera's but there was an issue on Griffs, caused by airflow and boot seals.
By having the roof up and the windows open it creates a low pressure area in the cabin, this in turn drew air out of the boot through the vents/speaker on the rear shelf. If the boot lid was not sealing properly exhaust gas was sucked into the boot from behind the car and it was then sucked into the main cabin.
Couple of solutions were tried with Griffs; one was to replace the boot lid seal and adjust the boot lid to make sure it sealed.
The other was a bit complicated and this is where I don't know if it will work on a Chimaera.
Directly behind the rear wheels on the bottom of the boot floor were 3 vent holes. The trick was to make up a scoop out of some thin metal plate and fix it to the underside, so the the open end faced towards the wheel and acted like a ram air duct to force air into the boot. This filled the boot area with 'clean' air bt also created positive air pressure in the boot which prevented exhaust gas being sucked into the boot.
By having the roof up and the windows open it creates a low pressure area in the cabin, this in turn drew air out of the boot through the vents/speaker on the rear shelf. If the boot lid was not sealing properly exhaust gas was sucked into the boot from behind the car and it was then sucked into the main cabin.
Couple of solutions were tried with Griffs; one was to replace the boot lid seal and adjust the boot lid to make sure it sealed.
The other was a bit complicated and this is where I don't know if it will work on a Chimaera.
Directly behind the rear wheels on the bottom of the boot floor were 3 vent holes. The trick was to make up a scoop out of some thin metal plate and fix it to the underside, so the the open end faced towards the wheel and acted like a ram air duct to force air into the boot. This filled the boot area with 'clean' air bt also created positive air pressure in the boot which prevented exhaust gas being sucked into the boot.
Colin RedGriff said:
Not sure if this happens on the Chimaera's but there was an issue on Griffs, caused by airflow and boot seals.
By having the roof up and the windows open it creates a low pressure area in the cabin, this in turn drew air out of the boot through the vents/speaker on the rear shelf. If the boot lid was not sealing properly exhaust gas was sucked into the boot from behind the car and it was then sucked into the main cabin.
Couple of solutions were tried with Griffs; one was to replace the boot lid seal and adjust the boot lid to make sure it sealed.
The other was a bit complicated and this is where I don't know if it will work on a Chimaera.
Directly behind the rear wheels on the bottom of the boot floor were 3 vent holes. The trick was to make up a scoop out of some thin metal plate and fix it to the underside, so the the open end faced towards the wheel and acted like a ram air duct to force air into the boot. This filled the boot area with 'clean' air bt also created positive air pressure in the boot which prevented exhaust gas being sucked into the boot.
You could have something here as the car has just returned from a full respray and the boot lid was removed for it to be sprayed. Importantly, the guy in charge of the works is a perfectionist and was unhappy with the shut lines on my boot (which weren't great on the OS) so he spent quite a bit of time adjusting it all to get a better profile when the boot was shut. It does look lots better and I would have thought was a better seal. It's certainly harder to close than it was but it could be forming a worse seal on the NS as a result of the adjustment.By having the roof up and the windows open it creates a low pressure area in the cabin, this in turn drew air out of the boot through the vents/speaker on the rear shelf. If the boot lid was not sealing properly exhaust gas was sucked into the boot from behind the car and it was then sucked into the main cabin.
Couple of solutions were tried with Griffs; one was to replace the boot lid seal and adjust the boot lid to make sure it sealed.
The other was a bit complicated and this is where I don't know if it will work on a Chimaera.
Directly behind the rear wheels on the bottom of the boot floor were 3 vent holes. The trick was to make up a scoop out of some thin metal plate and fix it to the underside, so the the open end faced towards the wheel and acted like a ram air duct to force air into the boot. This filled the boot area with 'clean' air bt also created positive air pressure in the boot which prevented exhaust gas being sucked into the boot.
N7GTX said:
When these ECU systems first came out on early Saxos, Clios and similar with carbon canisters, they were simply controlled by the throttle position sensor/switch. When closed the canister valve was not activated. Once the throttle was pressed the valve was opened.
I don't know what Rovergauge tells you (never used it) but if the valve is in the menu it could be a way to find out when its activated. Or use a meter and try and determine when voltage is supplied to the valve.
This is interesting as, the smell seems to start once a higher throttle opening is used, e.g. going up a hill.I don't know what Rovergauge tells you (never used it) but if the valve is in the menu it could be a way to find out when its activated. Or use a meter and try and determine when voltage is supplied to the valve.
Does anyone know what triggers the solenoid to open / shut ?
I don't thing RG monitors this although I have not got the latest updates.
Cheers.
RESULT !
Thanks all.
I made two fixes yesterday:
1: Tightened the top jubilee clip that goes around the flexi hose to the fuel filler neck. It seemed tight but when I wiped my finger around the back of the metal neck (above the hose) there was very very slight dampness there that smelt of fuel. Thinking again on the response from ## (above), this could have been the opposite to what I said, i.e. the boot seal is actually really good and so when I open the window, the vacuum created is drawing fumes in from the boot, up from the carbon breather vent via the fuel tank.
2: Found the open-ended breather hose for the carbon cannister lying on the floor of the OS front wing and managed to feed it back through the hole in the inner face of the wing so that it protrudes into the engine bay. Could just about reach to do it through the opening in front of the radiator.
Not sure which of the above has resolved the problem but on the drive in this morning, no fuel smell !
Hooray. Thanks all.
Thanks all.
I made two fixes yesterday:
1: Tightened the top jubilee clip that goes around the flexi hose to the fuel filler neck. It seemed tight but when I wiped my finger around the back of the metal neck (above the hose) there was very very slight dampness there that smelt of fuel. Thinking again on the response from ## (above), this could have been the opposite to what I said, i.e. the boot seal is actually really good and so when I open the window, the vacuum created is drawing fumes in from the boot, up from the carbon breather vent via the fuel tank.
2: Found the open-ended breather hose for the carbon cannister lying on the floor of the OS front wing and managed to feed it back through the hole in the inner face of the wing so that it protrudes into the engine bay. Could just about reach to do it through the opening in front of the radiator.
Not sure which of the above has resolved the problem but on the drive in this morning, no fuel smell !
Hooray. Thanks all.
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