987 to 718

[gd]

My 987S went into OPC Chester for a service today. They were kind enough to loan me a 718 for the day so that I could try out a more modern Boxster.

Now I should point out that I don't normally take much stock from reviews. I'm not that good a driver that the last 5% makes a real difference for me, and I like the raw grunt of my 997tt so I am not averse to turbocharging.

But WHAT THE HELL have they done to the Boxster?

- When turning it on, it sounded like an old 1303S beetle a neighbour used to own. It clattered and banged, and didn't fill me with a lot of confidence
- It accelerated well, very smooth for a turbo, and it was fast... but it just didn't *feel* fast
- It ran out of puff after about 5k RPM... where the 987 'sings', this fell flat
- And it drove like an Audi - really bland, too neutral and without any "feel".

There were some good points - the interior was very nice and the electronics are now top notch, the roof was superb and the build quality is a step up. But, the best way I can describe it, is that it feels like a cheap Chinese copy of a Boxster. Like those copy watches you can get from the Hong Kong market, it looks the part, but it completely lacks any of the character and soul that makes it what it should be. As nice as it is, I really could not take to it.

Getting back into my 987S and driving home, all of the things the 718 lacked seemed to jump back out - the engine noise, the handling in the curves, the steering feel. Ok, it may have an engine made from chocolate, and at 9 years old it's starting to feel it's age, but it just felt so, so much better.

I've owned a 2.5, a 2.7, a 3.2S and a 3.4S (as well as 2x 996 C4s and a 997tt) so I do have some experience of the various generations of Boxsters, but this was just sooo different it caught me by surprise. And not in a good way.

Now, last year they loaned me a 981 PDK when my 997tt was in for a service. I really liked that, in fact I was surprised how much I liked it. But the 718 was a completely different kettle of fish, and in spite of the enthusiasm of the OPC staff I really could not see me buying one of these. So I might have to look at the 981 again, or just keep the 987.

Sorry, all of this is IMHO of course. I was just so surprised I thought I would share it.

BTW, kudos to OPC Chester again today. A pleasant experience, well handled and very professional throughout. My Boxster was handed back all gleaming, clean and polished, and running like a dream, all for the price quoted.

[dreamcar]

Interesting impressions there, probably the most negative 718 comments I've read. Totally agree with you regarding the engine that doesn't feel at all like a sports car engine, sounds like a beetle, drives like a diesel would be my summary. However I felt everything else was a significant improvement over the previous generations.

Sad also that it has significantly widened the gap between the Boxster / Cayman and 991 model ranges and as many others have said 718 is now clearly the "cheap Porsche sports car", whereas previous generations shared the same high sophistication of 911. My suspicion is this has been done deliberately to help justify the much higher price - and profit margins - of 991.

[bcr5784]

dreamcar said:

Interesting impressions there, probably the most negative 718 comments I've read. Totally agree with you regarding the engine that doesn't feel at all like a sports car engine, sounds like a beetle, drives like a diesel would be my summary. However I felt everything else was a significant improvement over the previous generations.

Sad also that it has significantly widened the gap between the Boxster / Cayman and 991 model ranges and as many others have said 718 is now clearly the "cheap Porsche sports car", whereas previous generations shared the same high sophistication of 911. My suspicion is this has been done deliberately to help justify the much higher price - and profit margins - of 991.

+1 to almost all of that - though I've never driven a diesel that revs pretty eagerly to 6500rpm, nor had as much lag.

[FourPotPorsche]

987 and 981 are both cheap Porsches, as is the 718 which is why I bought one. The 718 S narrows the gap in performance to the 991. I even specced 2 fire extinguishers so mine will have 6 cylinders too.

Car and Driver Instrumented Test Results for the 718 Cayman S:

Zero to 60 mph: 3.6 sec*
Zero to 100 mph: 8.5 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 15.1 sec
Zero to 150 mph: 22.7 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 4.3 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 2.5 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 2.8 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 11.9 sec @ 117 mph*
Top speed (drag limited, mfr-s claim): 177 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 143 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 1.02 g

Plus round the Green Hell the 718 S is as fast as a GT4 apparently.

The 718 has lost the soul stirring tones of the Nasp 6 and for most on this forum and many purists that is a cardinal sin committed by Porsche which is unforgiveable. But to say that the car does not perform or handle well is utter nonsense.

I would conclude by stating the Evo Car Of The Year 2016 did not admit the 718 Boxster S as the engine ripped the heart out of the Porsche so I do understand where the naspers are coming from and can sympathise with your loss but, for me, it is not an issue...perhaps because it is my first cheap Porsche?

[dreamcar]

I'd sum the 718 performance up as quantity not quality I'm afraid. Yes, performance has significantly improved but a hefty price has been paid for that. There is compensation there with undoubted improvements elsewhere but for those of us used to what Boxster and Cayman used to be it's a price too high to pay. And that's before the 718 Boxster's price hike is factored in!

[Twinfan]

dreamcar said:

I'd sum the 718 performance up as quantity not quality I'm afraid.

This exactly. That's what the vast majority of people seem to be saying.

[DJMC]

But to some, in fact most, of the newcomers to Porsche (many from 4cyl turbos?) the 718 will be spot on: Fast, a Porsche, fast, good acceleration, a Porsche, good looking, and... a Porsche.

The OP here will be most disappointed as he has been so used to the F6 engine.

I, on the other hand, am a typical first time buyer. First Porsche a year ago, from a 4cyl turbo (TTS). But that didn't do it for me and my 981 PDK purchase made me realise I'm firmly in the 6cyl, N/A, RWD camp... for as long as I can be.

Stepping out of the 718S test car, having driven it around Rockingham Raceway and on the road, and back into my lowly base 981 I was, and still am, a very happy chappy.

[Tim bo]

Jesus those are some blisteringly quick times.

Really leaves the previous Boxmans fading away in the rear view mirrors.

[Klippie]

FourPotPorsche said:

987 and 981 are both cheap Porsches, as is the 718 which is why I bought one. The 718 S narrows the gap in performance to the 991. I even specced 2 fire extinguishers so mine will have 6 cylinders too.

Car and Driver Instrumented Test Results for the 718 Cayman S:

Zero to 60 mph: 3.6 sec*
Zero to 100 mph: 8.5 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 15.1 sec
Zero to 150 mph: 22.7 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 4.3 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 2.5 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 2.8 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 11.9 sec @ 117 mph*
Top speed (drag limited, mfr-s claim): 177 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 143 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 1.02 g

Plus round the Green Hell the 718 S is as fast as a GT4 apparently.

Meaningless...as I'am sure you are well aware most enthusiasts gripes are not about performance and speed the 718 does not have a flat 6 engine and it makes a un-Porsche like sound these are the two main issues and deal breakers for a lot of owners wanting to change to a newer car, for them the market has suddenly shrunk or they have to "upgrade" to a 911 which costs more.

[Porsche911R]

Tim bo said:

Jesus those are some blisteringly quick times.

Really leaves the previous Boxmans fading away in the rear view mirrors.

but hot hatches are fast also these days and A to B faster than the 718 for 95% drivers.

and if you want very fast you buy a 911 turbo or a Macca which is on another level and makes a 718 look very slow.

a few on paper 0-60 times is all the 718 has to offer imo.

again you can buy a TTRS with 400BHP for £50k and a far better engine, in fact I would go as far as iconic engine sound.

[TB303]

The 987 is a great car for the time, and is still a great car now. While the interior is a bit dated now, I felt the build quality of my old 2005 3.2S was better than the later 987s.

The steering weighting and feel is better than the 981 for me.

The 718 is not a bad car at all - very fast, incredible balance, not a brilliant noise, but it is very fast on the road without much fuss or theatre. It was better than I had expected it to be.

I'd take a 981 GTS over the 718 all day long, let alone 981 spyder.

The 718 reminds me of the M135i I used to lease - quick, but a bit dull. Of course it's nowhere near as dull as the 135i is, but it's a step in that direction of "speed with minimal fuss". Great if you live in Germany.

It's very easy to get a lot of enjoyment out of a 987 at legal road speeds. I'd like to try a 2.7 or a 2.9 again sometime.

[highscore]

Porsche911R said:

but hot hatches are fast also these days and A to B faster than the 718 for 95% drivers.

and if you want very fast you buy a 911 turbo or a Macca which is on another level and makes a 718 look very slow.

a few on paper 0-60 times is all the 718 has to offer imo.

again you can buy a TTRS with 400BHP for £50k and a far better engine, in fact I would go as far as iconic engine sound.

I'm not sure many people are cross-shopping a 718 with a McLaren...

Also, can you not be an enthusiast and still like the 718? Different people like different things and some (like me) prefer the characteristics of a turbocharged engine.

[FourPotPorsche]

Klippie said:

Meaningless...as I'am sure you are well aware most enthusiasts gripes are not about performance ..

..but the OP to which I was replying was criticising the handling...let's get this straight, if the 718 handles poorly then, giving the similarities between each chassis, so does the 987 and 981.

[gd]

FourPotPorsche said:

..but the OP to which I was replying was criticising the handling...let's get this straight, if the 718 handles poorly then, giving the similarities between each chassis, so does the 987 and 981.

I didn't say that handled poorly (you suggested earlier that I said it did and that I was talking nonsense... and then this too), what I actually said is that it was bland and neutral, and drove like an Audi.

I've owned a lot of cars. I'm not a beardie or trackday enthusiast, but I like to feel the car drive through the bends and the respond to the road, feel the camber of the road change and the road through the steering wheel as I give it some beans. When I did this in the 718 I could feel precious little in return. Much like an Audi TT that I used to own, which is why I made the comment.

NOW, here's the issue... I probably drove the car way faster than I could drive my 987 or even a 981 over the same roads. The speed reading on the dashboard was a lot higher than I expected, and it covered a lot of ground very very quickly indeed. But it just did it without any sense of what was going on. It was really easy to drive (I didn't have to do much work at all), but didn't feel fast, it didn't sound fast, it was just fast.

And this is my problem, I don't necessarily want the fastest car I can get my hands on (in fact I would probably lose my licence if I did), I like to drive a car makes me feel like I've had an enjoyable drive, that is a bit of an experience, that has some character and stirs the soul. And whilst I think Porsche have been making better and better cars over the past 30 years, I think this was a backward step - they have gone for speed over soul.

[gd]

dreamcar said:

I'd sum the 718 performance up as quantity not quality I'm afraid. Yes, performance has significantly improved but a hefty price has been paid for that. There is compensation there with undoubted improvements elsewhere but for those of us used to what Boxster and Cayman used to be it's a price too high to pay. And that's before the 718 Boxster's price hike is factored in!

Spot on

[nsm3]

Got a 981S and driven the 718 & 718S. Yes they are a bit faster, but that's it, a bit. This talk of a night and day difference over the 986/7/81 is a bit fanciful imvho?

[bcr5784]

nsm3 said:

Got a 981S and driven the 718 & 718S. Yes they are a bit faster, but that's it, a bit. This talk of a night and day difference over the 986/7/81 is a bit fanciful imvho?

Not entirely imnvho - the base 718 is much quicker than the base (2.7) 981 and comparable with the 981S let alone the 718S - on paper and in reality.

[nsm3]

Perhaps the 718's I drove were restricted? Anyhow, don't think that jumping from one to the other will give the impression of jumping into a supercar, as you might be disappointed?

[bcr5784]

nsm3 said:

Perhaps the 718's I drove were restricted? Anyhow, don't think that jumping from one to the other will give the impression of jumping into a supercar, as you might be disappointed?

I suspect that your impression is being influenced by the heavier flywheels and less free revving nature of the motor - 0-100mph in 8.5 (718S) is pretty damn fast - a match for most supercars of not that long ago. A near match for a Ferrari 430 and faster than a 360.

Something with a light flywheel feels faster to me than one with a heavy one of the same performance. High performance two stroke bikes are an extreme case - the engines feel inertia-less and is as if you are being propelled forward by a giant hand - a feeling I've never felt with any 4 stroke, even measurably faster ones.

[rianos]

gd said:

I didn't say that handled poorly (you suggested earlier that I said it did and that I was talking nonsense... and then this too), what I actually said is that it was bland and neutral, and drove like an Audi.

I've owned a lot of cars. I'm not a beardie or trackday enthusiast, but I like to feel the car drive through the bends and the respond to the road, feel the camber of the road change and the road through the steering wheel as I give it some beans. When I did this in the 718 I could feel precious little in return. Much like an Audi TT that I used to own, which is why I made the comment.

NOW, here's the issue... I probably drove the car way faster than I could drive my 987 or even a 981 over the same roads. The speed reading on the dashboard was a lot higher than I expected, and it covered a lot of ground very very quickly indeed. But it just did it without any sense of what was going on. It was really easy to drive (I didn't have to do much work at all), but didn't feel fast, it didn't sound fast, it was just fast.

And this is my problem, I don't necessarily want the fastest car I can get my hands on (in fact I would probably lose my licence if I did), I like to drive a car makes me feel like I've had an enjoyable drive, that is a bit of an experience, that has some character and stirs the soul. And whilst I think Porsche have been making better and better cars over the past 30 years, I think this was a backward step - they have gone for speed over soul.

Exactly this. When I drove the 718 base yesterday it felt like driving my TTS which was horrible. Fast but no feel, no excitement, no real sense of speed. Clinical and boring. If I wanted that, i'd go get a new TTS and save about 15k over the 718 cayman.