Italian "traffic violation"
Discussion
So, 6 months after a long weekend in Bologna I notice a charge of £48.50 has just appeared on my credit card from the car rental company we used. Querying this they have said that the charge is an admin fee for passing my details on to the relevant authorities in relation to a traffic violation. All they've sent me though (and only then cos I noticed the charge and chased it) is their invoice; no evidence of a request or detail of what the violation was.
I had just raised a dispute with the credit card before they came back with their rationale, so my inclination is to continue with this, at least until they provide some evidence that such a request occurred. £48.50 seems exorbitant to me for filling in a form, but, no doubt, it was somewhere in the small print of the hire agreement.
Then I guess it's a case of waiting for a letter from the Italian police. I'm guessing that it may have been a parking problem, or driving too close to the city centre, but I wasn't aware that we had done anything wrong.
My understanding is that in Italian law they have a year to get in touch, but there seems to be stuff on the web (but not up to date?) about how this may be in contradiction of the Human Rights Act. Anyone got any recent knowledge?
I do intend to return, so would pay up if bang to rights, but not happy so far.
I had just raised a dispute with the credit card before they came back with their rationale, so my inclination is to continue with this, at least until they provide some evidence that such a request occurred. £48.50 seems exorbitant to me for filling in a form, but, no doubt, it was somewhere in the small print of the hire agreement.
Then I guess it's a case of waiting for a letter from the Italian police. I'm guessing that it may have been a parking problem, or driving too close to the city centre, but I wasn't aware that we had done anything wrong.
My understanding is that in Italian law they have a year to get in touch, but there seems to be stuff on the web (but not up to date?) about how this may be in contradiction of the Human Rights Act. Anyone got any recent knowledge?
I do intend to return, so would pay up if bang to rights, but not happy so far.
I got one of these about 5 or 6 years ago after Mrs Local and I had come back from a week in Florence. The charge from the car hire cmpany was for supplying information to the Italian authorities. There was nothing we could do about the credit card charge because, as you say, it was in the small print of the agreement.
A few weeks later I received my Italian fixed penalty. Turned out I had driven into a restricted zone close to the centre of Florence which, when I found it on Google Earth, was indicated by a sign written in Italian only, on a discreet sign which even the most scammy of private parking enforcement companies would have been proud of.
I considered paying the ticket for about 0.05 of a second before whizzing it in the bin. I never received any further correspondence and although I haven't been back to Italy snce, I'm pretty sure there isn't an international death warrant in my name.
A few weeks later I received my Italian fixed penalty. Turned out I had driven into a restricted zone close to the centre of Florence which, when I found it on Google Earth, was indicated by a sign written in Italian only, on a discreet sign which even the most scammy of private parking enforcement companies would have been proud of.
I considered paying the ticket for about 0.05 of a second before whizzing it in the bin. I never received any further correspondence and although I haven't been back to Italy snce, I'm pretty sure there isn't an international death warrant in my name.
MikeO996 said:
...but there seems to be stuff on the web (but not up to date?) about how this may be in contradiction of the Human Rights Act.
<rolls eyes> It isn't.Apart from anything else, the HRA is UK legislation, and isn't applicable to an Italian contract over a hire car. But since the HRA is simply a way to enforce the EConventionHR in UK courts, it's worth pointing out that it's not a breach of that convention, either.
I would guess that the wibbler theory is that it breaches one or more of article 5 (right to liberty and security), article 6 (right to a fair trial) or article 8 (right to respect for private and family life). All are, of course, complete and utter b
ks.http://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/Convention_ENG.p...
Your liberty or security aren't being infringed and - even if they were - there's an exception to "...secure the fulfilment of any obligation prescribed by law".
You have the right to a fair trial when it comes to the parking ticket.
Your right to privacy is tempered by "such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic wellbeing of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others."
B'sides, the whole point of human rights legislation is to protect the individual from the state - it'd be criminal law that'd protect you from a company, which is what you're actually talking about here. If you needed protecting. Which you don't. At most, unfair contract legislation.
I went to the Amalfi coast recently and my intent was to hire a car for a day or two, or three, depending on how things turned out.
I didn't. Except for a couple of excursions we went everywhere on public transport, bus and boat. It was superb. E1.30 (that's about £40 now I believe) for a single from Maiori to Amalfi and only E6 to do it by boat. We once drove into the side of a mountain on a precipitous coast ride, but that only added to the excitement. They build them mountains out of stuff.
It was great. I've traveled a bit by bus in the UK since I got my pass. Going by bus is a bit like going blind, at least according to my Aunty Maud. When she lost her sight she said it wasn't anywhere near as terrifying as she thought it might be.
There is, though, a considerable difference between bus drivers round my way and those in Italy. First of all the latter look cool. This is beyond most English bus drivers, and the passengers come to that. Also most are slim. They smile on occasion and, remarkably, despite being continually held up by idiotic car drivers, as can be seen on the linked video, they do little more than shrug and then get on with driving.
I thoroughly enjoyed my 10 days on public transport in Italy. Recommended.
Here's the return route from Amalfi to Maiori. https://youtu.be/jao-22bVKSs And I've just realised that I've spelled Amalfi incorrectly.
I didn't. Except for a couple of excursions we went everywhere on public transport, bus and boat. It was superb. E1.30 (that's about £40 now I believe) for a single from Maiori to Amalfi and only E6 to do it by boat. We once drove into the side of a mountain on a precipitous coast ride, but that only added to the excitement. They build them mountains out of stuff.
It was great. I've traveled a bit by bus in the UK since I got my pass. Going by bus is a bit like going blind, at least according to my Aunty Maud. When she lost her sight she said it wasn't anywhere near as terrifying as she thought it might be.
There is, though, a considerable difference between bus drivers round my way and those in Italy. First of all the latter look cool. This is beyond most English bus drivers, and the passengers come to that. Also most are slim. They smile on occasion and, remarkably, despite being continually held up by idiotic car drivers, as can be seen on the linked video, they do little more than shrug and then get on with driving.
I thoroughly enjoyed my 10 days on public transport in Italy. Recommended.
Here's the return route from Amalfi to Maiori. https://youtu.be/jao-22bVKSs And I've just realised that I've spelled Amalfi incorrectly.
Reg Local said:
ITurned out I had driven into a restricted zone close to the centre of Florence which, when I found it on Google Earth, was indicated by a sign written in Italian only, on a discreet sign which even the most scammy of private parking enforcement companies would have been proud of.
Funny that, an Italian road sign, in Italy, being written in Italian... Vaud said:
Reg Local said:
ITurned out I had driven into a restricted zone close to the centre of Florence which, when I found it on Google Earth, was indicated by a sign written in Italian only, on a discreet sign which even the most scammy of private parking enforcement companies would have been proud of.
Funny that, an Italian road sign, in Italy, being written in Italian... The human rights argument is related to the rights to reasonable timescale and communication in a language that the accused can understand., and would be in relation to the parking ticket (or whatever it is) rather than the hire company.
Certainly after this time I would struggle to know where I drove on a certain day - but if the Italian law says a year is reasonable then I guess that has been tested.
Certainly after this time I would struggle to know where I drove on a certain day - but if the Italian law says a year is reasonable then I guess that has been tested.
Edited by MikeO996 on Wednesday 2nd November 11:16
Vaud said:
Funny that, an Italian road sign, in Italy, being written in Italian...
I know - who'd have thunk it? Those sneaky Europeans - we should leave...Having said that, it's the reason the international pictorial signs were introduced in the first place, so if there had been a...
Or a...
...accompanying the sign I'd have felt it was a bit more of a fair cop. But it was just a written sign in Italian only, 10 feet up the side of an old Roman wall. This site...
http://www.bella-toscana.com/traffic_violations_it...
...suggests that someone is booked every 40 seconds for the same offence in Florence & that it brings in 52 million euros per year for the local council. It also suggests that the signage is now being improved and that there is very little, if nothing done to chase up international non-payers, so I don't think I'll be lined up in front of a firing squad next time I visit Italy.
Reg Local said:
I got one of these about 5 or 6 years ago after Mrs Local and I had come back from a week in Florence. The charge from the car hire cmpany was for supplying information to the Italian authorities. There was nothing we could do about the credit card charge because, as you say, it was in the small print of the agreement.
A few weeks later I received my Italian fixed penalty. Turned out I had driven into a restricted zone close to the centre of Florence which, when I found it on Google Earth, was indicated by a sign written in Italian only, on a discreet sign which even the most scammy of private parking enforcement companies would have been proud of.
I considered paying the ticket for about 0.05 of a second before whizzing it in the bin. I never received any further correspondence and although I haven't been back to Italy snce, I'm pretty sure there isn't an international death warrant in my name.
A few weeks ago we drove to and from the centre of Florence in a hire car. We were very careful about avoiding the congestion zone, but i) Hertz gave us very specific directions for leaving/entering the zone, and ii) Hertz also pointed out to us that we had to look out for the ANPR cameras rather than signage for the congestion zone, as the former were more obvious. We stuck to their specific routes, so hopefully no further charges to the credit card.A few weeks later I received my Italian fixed penalty. Turned out I had driven into a restricted zone close to the centre of Florence which, when I found it on Google Earth, was indicated by a sign written in Italian only, on a discreet sign which even the most scammy of private parking enforcement companies would have been proud of.
I considered paying the ticket for about 0.05 of a second before whizzing it in the bin. I never received any further correspondence and although I haven't been back to Italy snce, I'm pretty sure there isn't an international death warrant in my name.
Reg Local said:
http://www.bella-toscana.com/traffic_violations_it...
...suggests that someone is booked every 40 seconds for the same offence in Florence...
Another way of looking at that is that the 457000 tickets are a little over one per resident of the city per year, ignoring tourists. Or, if you assume the locals can read the signs, then it's about one ticket per 35 tourists....suggests that someone is booked every 40 seconds for the same offence in Florence...
We had one for Rome - I had parked illegally outside the hotel for about 5 mins whilst we dropped off the cases. Fair cop, it took them about a year to chase us. I ignored the first two demands, paid the third before it got more expensive than an 80 euro fine as it seemed they weren't going to drop it.
Derek Smith said:
Here's the return route from Amalfi to Maiori. https://youtu.be/jao-22bVKSs And I've just realised that I've spelled Amalfi incorrectly.
Wow, I reckon I'd be a bit more cheery if that was my route each day 
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