How do you rate hills?
Discussion
The nerd in me wants to compile a list of local hills (Sussex and Surrey) and then some of the famous Alpine ones. I use the site Climbbybike but it seems to crash a lot, and you have to manually enter details for all but the most famous of hills, and then the data doesn't always show.
There's also the Fiets index, and an Italian guy has also come up with a formula.
What I am tying to get to is a subjective way to compare hills. The gradient is the main thing of course, but how that changes doesn't seem to be included in anyone's calculations. I would have thought Strava might include something, but I can't find it if they do.
As an example, the toughest two hills I ride reasonably often are Barhatch Lane near Cranleigh and Bignor in Sussex. Bignor https://www.strava.com/segments/7731749 averages 12% over 1100 metres, but parts of it spike up to 28.9%, near the bottom. Barhatch Lane https://www.strava.com/segments/10191727 is 2.5km and averages 6%, including the downhill section, but saves the steep part to last. I used to think this made it harder, you don't know you are going to make it until right at the very end. Bignor hits you hard very early on, but you know if you get to just beyond the half way mark it is going to get easier.
We're planning a summer trip to the Italian Alps, with 3 hard days of climbing. I know this is going to be tough for us all, more for some than others. It would be good to be able to say Stelvio is going to be 10x harder than anything you have done in Britain, and twice as hard as Monte Grappa, for example.
There's also the Fiets index, and an Italian guy has also come up with a formula.
What I am tying to get to is a subjective way to compare hills. The gradient is the main thing of course, but how that changes doesn't seem to be included in anyone's calculations. I would have thought Strava might include something, but I can't find it if they do.
As an example, the toughest two hills I ride reasonably often are Barhatch Lane near Cranleigh and Bignor in Sussex. Bignor https://www.strava.com/segments/7731749 averages 12% over 1100 metres, but parts of it spike up to 28.9%, near the bottom. Barhatch Lane https://www.strava.com/segments/10191727 is 2.5km and averages 6%, including the downhill section, but saves the steep part to last. I used to think this made it harder, you don't know you are going to make it until right at the very end. Bignor hits you hard very early on, but you know if you get to just beyond the half way mark it is going to get easier.
We're planning a summer trip to the Italian Alps, with 3 hard days of climbing. I know this is going to be tough for us all, more for some than others. It would be good to be able to say Stelvio is going to be 10x harder than anything you have done in Britain, and twice as hard as Monte Grappa, for example.
I have a pretty scientific way of calculating the hills around my way, it's simply given by a number, which represents the amount of expletives I shout on the way up. Something like Box Hill is barely a 1, whereas Barhatch is about an 8. Where things get really steep, such as Chalkpit lane near Oxted or Yorks Hill, they are about an 11.
It depends what about it you're finding hard.
For example, if its because the gradient/gears you have mean you're forced to ride in the red, then really that has little bearing on an alpine climb where you can ride up it at your own pace as they're generally not quite as steep.
Climbs I find hard are the very steep ones, generally because I'm too lazy to change my cassette and 80kg dictates I have to ride a lot of watts to get up them.
For example, if its because the gradient/gears you have mean you're forced to ride in the red, then really that has little bearing on an alpine climb where you can ride up it at your own pace as they're generally not quite as steep.
Climbs I find hard are the very steep ones, generally because I'm too lazy to change my cassette and 80kg dictates I have to ride a lot of watts to get up them.
okgo said:
It depends what about it you're finding hard.
For example, if its because the gradient/gears you have mean you're forced to ride in the red, then really that has little bearing on an alpine climb where you can ride up it at your own pace as they're generally not quite as steep.
Climbs I find hard are the very steep ones, generally because I'm too lazy to change my cassette and 80kg dictates I have to ride a lot of watts to get up them.
haha im the opposite, I hate long steady not that steep ones, im talking 10 mins in the same position with no scenery to look atFor example, if its because the gradient/gears you have mean you're forced to ride in the red, then really that has little bearing on an alpine climb where you can ride up it at your own pace as they're generally not quite as steep.
Climbs I find hard are the very steep ones, generally because I'm too lazy to change my cassette and 80kg dictates I have to ride a lot of watts to get up them.
I quite enjoy short brutal ones, shorter and more brutal the better, 20%+ and all done in under a couple of minutes flat out suit me fine
For the last couple of years I've done a race to the top of Gran Canaria, in the promotional blurb they go on about it being the hardest climb in Europe based on some calculation using "accumulated slope, length, percentages" I did a bit of Googling and couldn't find the article but apparently Pablo Bueno from Ciclismo a Fondo created this formula for rating climbs.
I think as long as you are reasonably well trained / lean it all comes down to gearing. You may have to get a bit inventive with your setup for something extreme but if you can stay at a cadence you are happy with and a sustainable power you shouldn't have to suffer too much.
I think as long as you are reasonably well trained / lean it all comes down to gearing. You may have to get a bit inventive with your setup for something extreme but if you can stay at a cadence you are happy with and a sustainable power you shouldn't have to suffer too much.
If its 8% or less then as long as you like, 15 - 20KM no problem. Anything over 10% and I start to blow up, recently did 10KM in Spain that was solid 10% or greater and I had to stop for a short pause 3 or 4 times. Overall it was 90KM with 5K feet (in two climbs) and that was a tough day. If its >20% then I just resort to crying.
The official methods for cat 4,3,2,1 and HC are well documented
In order to be categorised at all, a climb must:
have a gradient of at least 3%; and
achieve a score of 8,000 or higher (so 1km at 8%; 1.5km at 6%; 2km at 4% etc).
If the minimum criteria are met, climbs are classified according to the following points scale:
8,000 or greater: Category 4
16,000 or greater: Category 3
32,000 or greater: Category 2
64,000 or greater: Category 1
80,000 or greater: Hors Catégorie
Strava works in this method too..
Sorry for being so very geeky...
What I would recommend is the veloviewer segment view
https://veloviewer.com/segment/10191727
It gives a 3D image of the climb and a breakdown of elevation and gradients over the whole length
Using your first strava segment posted as an example
Anything that isnt in green means I have a heart attack and die.
In order to be categorised at all, a climb must:
have a gradient of at least 3%; and
achieve a score of 8,000 or higher (so 1km at 8%; 1.5km at 6%; 2km at 4% etc).
If the minimum criteria are met, climbs are classified according to the following points scale:
8,000 or greater: Category 4
16,000 or greater: Category 3
32,000 or greater: Category 2
64,000 or greater: Category 1
80,000 or greater: Hors Catégorie
Strava works in this method too..
Sorry for being so very geeky...
What I would recommend is the veloviewer segment view
https://veloviewer.com/segment/10191727
It gives a 3D image of the climb and a breakdown of elevation and gradients over the whole length
Using your first strava segment posted as an example
Anything that isnt in green means I have a heart attack and die.
Edited by BenGismo on Wednesday 2nd November 19:36
Having not long got back from the Pyrenees I would definitely say that I am personally suited to the more longer steadier climbs. We did eighteen cols altogether, including all the monsters, stuff like Le Tourmalet, Col de Puymorens and also Col de Peyresourde. Those are only sort of 7-8% but for 20 or 30km. However the ones that really made me cry were the Col de Marie Blanque - it's only 4km but it rises nearly 500m in elevation. Also the Col de Portet d'Aspet - very similar numbers to the Col de Marie Blanque but with a section of 16% for 600m near the Fabio Casartelli memorial. Super vicious climb. Both around 11-12% in average.
Edited by mcelliott on Wednesday 2nd November 19:59
Edited by mcelliott on Wednesday 2nd November 20:16
ChrisMCoupe said:
I have a pretty scientific way of calculating the hills around my way, it's simply given by a number, which represents the amount of expletives I shout on the way up. Something like Box Hill is barely a 1, whereas Barhatch is about an 8. Where things get really steep, such as Chalkpit lane near Oxted or Yorks Hill, they are about an 11.
i f
king hate chalkpit. that corner just after it has the 20% sign then you go round and can see it go on forever. fking horrible. 
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