My heads about to explode (another newbie after advice).
Discussion
I retire on the 30th and I'm seriously looking at getting a Caterham :-)
So, I've been browsing the classifieds and the choice is mind boggling.
The budget started off at £10k but I now realise that's probably not realistic for a 'nice' example, I can afford to up it quite a bit but would probably draw the line at about £25k for the right car.
This obviously gives me a fair bit of choice, probably too much?
I was passing Stratton Motor Company the other day and popped in for a look as another Lotus is also a consideration.
They have three Caterham in stock.
1974 Twin Cam that was charming but would running one of these be a nightmare?
They also had a 1988 Supersprint and a 2013 Super Sport R SV (£35k so over budget but I was surprised how much bigger the SV looked next to the other two).
If I buy a newer model, as opposed to something like the 1974, I'd probably use it most days as I will no longer be commuting and would had access to the wife's car at other times etc. I'm not that interested in track days (at the moment) but have done a few 'airfield days' at North Weald and some driver training with 'Walshy'.
Any advice would be most welcome. Pete
So, I've been browsing the classifieds and the choice is mind boggling.
The budget started off at £10k but I now realise that's probably not realistic for a 'nice' example, I can afford to up it quite a bit but would probably draw the line at about £25k for the right car.
This obviously gives me a fair bit of choice, probably too much?
I was passing Stratton Motor Company the other day and popped in for a look as another Lotus is also a consideration.
They have three Caterham in stock.
1974 Twin Cam that was charming but would running one of these be a nightmare?
They also had a 1988 Supersprint and a 2013 Super Sport R SV (£35k so over budget but I was surprised how much bigger the SV looked next to the other two).
If I buy a newer model, as opposed to something like the 1974, I'd probably use it most days as I will no longer be commuting and would had access to the wife's car at other times etc. I'm not that interested in track days (at the moment) but have done a few 'airfield days' at North Weald and some driver training with 'Walshy'.
Any advice would be most welcome. Pete
Ex Elise owner then/SELOC member,
I'd whole heartedly recommend you get along to the next Essex meeting of the L7CGB on the 3rd Tuesday of every month at 19:00 onwards. The Great Baddow Barn, Galleywood Road, Chelmsford, Essex CM2 8NB. Access is easy, from any of the following A12, A130, A1114, A414, B1007. Ask for Andrew Fielding. That way you'll get exposure to a lot of friendly faces,, each of who, will have a view and a Caterham.. Personally I'd recommend an newer car with fuel injection for ease of living and maintenance....although if you're into tinkering by all means consider a carburetted car.
I'd whole heartedly recommend you get along to the next Essex meeting of the L7CGB on the 3rd Tuesday of every month at 19:00 onwards. The Great Baddow Barn, Galleywood Road, Chelmsford, Essex CM2 8NB. Access is easy, from any of the following A12, A130, A1114, A414, B1007. Ask for Andrew Fielding. That way you'll get exposure to a lot of friendly faces,, each of who, will have a view and a Caterham.. Personally I'd recommend an newer car with fuel injection for ease of living and maintenance....although if you're into tinkering by all means consider a carburetted car.
The thing to realise about Caterhams is that despite the mind boggling array of model names, they're all effectively the same (ignoring maybe one or two notable exceptions). They just have different items from the options list fitted as standard to subtly change the driving experience or level of practicality. Whenever Caterham comes out with a new model name, it is effectively just a marketing exercise, with some options-list engineering to tailor the car towards a particular buyer.
To illustrate that, a buyer may choose a Roadsport, then by ticking the relevant options (such as Tillet seats, LSD, Wide-track, etc) could end up with a car of identical spec as a Superlight or a Supersport. It'll still say Roadsport on the rear of the car and on the order form of course.
However, despite the above the used market does find certain models more desirable, and there will be a premium to be paid for them. A genuine Superlight or anything with an 'R' in the name will sell for significantly more than an identical spec car with 'Roadsport' written on the back.
The way to approach it is to decide what engine and power output you think you would prefer. A bit of research will be necessary for that. Then along the way you can start to think about what options you'd want fitted. That will lead you towards certain models that fit your criteria.
Get along to any of the Caterham dealers (official or otherwise). Seeing the cars in person and having a test-drive is the only way to get your head around what you think you'll be looking for.
To illustrate that, a buyer may choose a Roadsport, then by ticking the relevant options (such as Tillet seats, LSD, Wide-track, etc) could end up with a car of identical spec as a Superlight or a Supersport. It'll still say Roadsport on the rear of the car and on the order form of course.
However, despite the above the used market does find certain models more desirable, and there will be a premium to be paid for them. A genuine Superlight or anything with an 'R' in the name will sell for significantly more than an identical spec car with 'Roadsport' written on the back.
The way to approach it is to decide what engine and power output you think you would prefer. A bit of research will be necessary for that. Then along the way you can start to think about what options you'd want fitted. That will lead you towards certain models that fit your criteria.
Get along to any of the Caterham dealers (official or otherwise). Seeing the cars in person and having a test-drive is the only way to get your head around what you think you'll be looking for.
Edited by mharris on Monday 7th November 15:48
Edited by mharris on Monday 7th November 15:50
I retired 4 years ago and 12 months before placed my order for a new Classic 1.4K - fully specced with orange paint, black pack, lowered floors, leather, weather, mats, heater, big red button and momo and at the time had a budget of £20K which Greg managed to squeeze and extra £1000 out of me. He advised that I probably didn't need a 6 speed box and I think he was right in hindsight. Prior to that I had a 1.6CVH Westie for 12 years so thought I knew what I was buying ( the Cat had similar bhp but less torque ) I never intended to take it on the track so the spec was ideal for touring. The lack of torque just required a different driving style and the injected K gives fantastic economy. Others will no doubt advise against buying new but I was fairly sure about my precise spec, so bit the bullet. The car came in the November, just in time to show it off to my old work mates suggesting what retirement was offering.
At least 5 French trips, one including Spain and 15K miles later, it still gives great fun and have just returned from a Blat earlier today with no particular direction in mind. Glad I had a heater, screen and tonneau though - its getting cold out there !
Earlier this year, I had a small inheritance and wondered about buying a Superlight in ally and black ( Nigel P's car looks a beaut ) and perhaps risking an aero exposure, but on my way out to Bookatrack's open day, a fast blat going there changed my mind completely and I decided to stick with the Classic even though I did sit comfortably in their demo but couldn't justify another £10 - £15K or so to upgrade. There are very few days I wish I had more power and the Classic is great motoring at sensible / legal speeds even though dropping a cog and winding the revs up still thrills. A 'stealth' Caterham will wait for another time.
I think some crucial decisions are what type of driving will you do and what sort of power you need. I am not competitive - hence lack of track day interest, and mainly go out solo, so set my own moderate pace. The invite to a club meet is a good shout and will no doubt expose you to a range of cars and specs ranging from the occasional blat type car to fire breathing track motors. Oh, and while writing this, Mr Flux has just asked for £195 renewal. A bargain for so much fun.
Regarding budgets, I did read on here that new cars depreciate about £2k in the first year and £1k per year subsequently and there comes a point where older cars will stabilise and then appreciate. There is an optimum point on the curve when buying.
Stay cool and a happy retirement.... the first year is worst getting used to it !
At least 5 French trips, one including Spain and 15K miles later, it still gives great fun and have just returned from a Blat earlier today with no particular direction in mind. Glad I had a heater, screen and tonneau though - its getting cold out there !
Earlier this year, I had a small inheritance and wondered about buying a Superlight in ally and black ( Nigel P's car looks a beaut ) and perhaps risking an aero exposure, but on my way out to Bookatrack's open day, a fast blat going there changed my mind completely and I decided to stick with the Classic even though I did sit comfortably in their demo but couldn't justify another £10 - £15K or so to upgrade. There are very few days I wish I had more power and the Classic is great motoring at sensible / legal speeds even though dropping a cog and winding the revs up still thrills. A 'stealth' Caterham will wait for another time.
I think some crucial decisions are what type of driving will you do and what sort of power you need. I am not competitive - hence lack of track day interest, and mainly go out solo, so set my own moderate pace. The invite to a club meet is a good shout and will no doubt expose you to a range of cars and specs ranging from the occasional blat type car to fire breathing track motors. Oh, and while writing this, Mr Flux has just asked for £195 renewal. A bargain for so much fun.
Regarding budgets, I did read on here that new cars depreciate about £2k in the first year and £1k per year subsequently and there comes a point where older cars will stabilise and then appreciate. There is an optimum point on the curve when buying.
Stay cool and a happy retirement.... the first year is worst getting used to it !
Hi, congratulations on the retirement, I think I replied to your FB comment already but... £10K is not too little for a 7, I got mine on this very forum for about that!
As was said above the car is essentially all optional apart from the chassis, whatever you get can be changed and there are more options than stars in the sky!
If you want to buy just one and keep it forever then you are into tricky territory as everyone commenting has a different idea what's ideal, some people have 300+hp track monsters, others 100hp (or less) tourers and everything in between.
I would buy what you think will get the most use, so pretty and expensive might not fit your wallet. Everything on the call (including the chassis and skin) is replaceable/changeable so like Triggers Broom you can keep it forever while subtly enhancing things as you go along.
Find one you fit in and makes you giggle and go drive the hell out of it, if in the long run you need to change something (or the whole car) the resale is very good (unless you buy brand new and spec up everything) even so it won't be a total loss.
Whichever you choose someone will say you made the wrong choice and another person will say you made the perfect choice- probably if theirs shares some feature of yours ;-)
As was said above the car is essentially all optional apart from the chassis, whatever you get can be changed and there are more options than stars in the sky!
If you want to buy just one and keep it forever then you are into tricky territory as everyone commenting has a different idea what's ideal, some people have 300+hp track monsters, others 100hp (or less) tourers and everything in between.
I would buy what you think will get the most use, so pretty and expensive might not fit your wallet. Everything on the call (including the chassis and skin) is replaceable/changeable so like Triggers Broom you can keep it forever while subtly enhancing things as you go along.
Find one you fit in and makes you giggle and go drive the hell out of it, if in the long run you need to change something (or the whole car) the resale is very good (unless you buy brand new and spec up everything) even so it won't be a total loss.
Whichever you choose someone will say you made the wrong choice and another person will say you made the perfect choice- probably if theirs shares some feature of yours ;-)
Just remember you'll never get back the cost of your upgrades when you sell the car. Which is why it is so important you talk to owners, discuss experiences, your requirements and get a ride in a car or two. A £25k budget will buy you a lot of car. I personally think that if you can find one, a CSR260 is a superb all rounder.
rubystone said:
Ex Elise owner then/SELOC member,
I'd whole heartedly recommend you get along to the next Essex meeting of the L7CGB on the 3rd Tuesday of every month at 19:00 onwards. The Great Baddow Barn, Galleywood Road, Chelmsford, Essex CM2 8NB. Access is easy, from any of the following A12, A130, A1114, A414, B1007. Ask for Andrew Fielding. That way you'll get exposure to a lot of friendly faces,, each of who, will have a view and a Caterham.. Personally I'd recommend an newer car with fuel injection for ease of living and maintenance....although if you're into tinkering by all means consider a carburetted car.
I am a former SELOC member, although I was never very 'active'. Paid my L7CGB membership today so will certainly try t get along to the Essex meet.I'd whole heartedly recommend you get along to the next Essex meeting of the L7CGB on the 3rd Tuesday of every month at 19:00 onwards. The Great Baddow Barn, Galleywood Road, Chelmsford, Essex CM2 8NB. Access is easy, from any of the following A12, A130, A1114, A414, B1007. Ask for Andrew Fielding. That way you'll get exposure to a lot of friendly faces,, each of who, will have a view and a Caterham.. Personally I'd recommend an newer car with fuel injection for ease of living and maintenance....although if you're into tinkering by all means consider a carburetted car.
mharris said:
However, despite the above the used market does find certain models more desirable, and there will be a premium to be paid for them. A genuine Superlight or anything with an 'R' in the name will sell for significantly more than an identical spec car with 'Roadsport' written on the back.
This is very true. I bought my Roadsport 140, which was better specced than the Supersport that Caterham had just released at the time for a very good deal used.I would have a look for a Sigma with 125 or 140 HP. You can always upgrade the 125 if you want, and there should be a lot of cars to choose from. It's a very reliable engine and you won't have to worry about carbs like with an older car.
I would have thought 15-20k could get you a very nice example indeed (a little less if you're willing to go the ex-race car route).
ash73 said:
For general road use and a few track days I'd suggest looking for a 1.6 K supersport with a 6-speed box it's the sweetest combo they made. 5 speed is more suited to touring and R3/400's make good track toys.
IME you can compensate (with 5spd) with lots of torque/power, with enough omph you can work between 3rd & 4th and monster a weedier 6spd in a straight line while the driver is p*ssing about changing gears (again) :-)You can also drive on the motorway/dual carriage ways without feeling mechanically unsympathetic :-)
Obviously I'm totally biased- 5spd with approx 200hp
scubadude said:
IME you can compensate (with 5spd) with lots of torque/power, with enough omph you can work between 3rd & 4th and monster a weedier 6spd in a straight line while the driver is p*ssing about changing gears (again) :-)
You can also drive on the motorway/dual carriage ways without feeling mechanically unsympathetic :-)
Obviously I'm totally biased- 5spd with approx 200hp
Correct re motorway. The 5 speed standard ratios are far better suited for thst sort of use and first gear is perfect for towing caravans. But the throw of the 6 speed and the sheer fun of changing gear with that superb 'box is what really attracts it to me. After all, who chooses to use motorways when touring in a 7? You can also drive on the motorway/dual carriage ways without feeling mechanically unsympathetic :-)
Obviously I'm totally biased- 5spd with approx 200hp
rubystone said:
Correct re motorway. The 5 speed standard ratios are far better suited for thst sort of use and first gear is perfect for towing caravans. But the throw of the 6 speed and the sheer fun of changing gear with that superb 'box is what really attracts it to me. After all, who chooses to use motorways when touring in a 7?
Indeed. I've not driven the 5 speed, but changing gears in the 6 speed is something to experience.I drove all the way to Scotland and back with the 6-speed and didn't really have any problems (along the M5/M6 as it would have taken days to get there otherwise!). Yes it's loud, but most of the noise is from the wind and the 5 speed would do nothing to improve that.
Crossfit_Pete said:
Thanks guys, I drove a Roadsport 125 today with the Sigma engine and it seemed pretty well suited to my needs.
Any idea of what sort of price I should be paying?
Difficult to say because it is dependant on condition, age and mileage. Plenty available in pistonheads classifieds to give you an idea.Any idea of what sort of price I should be paying?
Personally, if I was in the market for a Roadsport 125 I'd have to seriously consider an ex-academy race car. They are essentially the same spec but available at a considerable discount. A lot get bought new, raced for a season then sold on right about this time of year.. No need to worry about it being a race car - it'll have been maintained better than any road car.
mharris said:
Difficult to say because it is dependant on condition, age and mileage. Plenty available in pistonheads classifieds to give you an idea.
Personally, if I was in the market for a Roadsport 125 I'd have to seriously consider an ex-academy race car. They are essentially the same spec but available at a considerable discount. A lot get bought new, raced for a season then sold on right about this time of year.. No need to worry about it being a race car - it'll have been maintained better than any road car.
These are my thoughts at the moment to be honest. Personally, if I was in the market for a Roadsport 125 I'd have to seriously consider an ex-academy race car. They are essentially the same spec but available at a considerable discount. A lot get bought new, raced for a season then sold on right about this time of year.. No need to worry about it being a race car - it'll have been maintained better than any road car.
rubystone said:
Correct re motorway. The 5 speed standard ratios are far better suited for thst sort of use and first gear is perfect for towing caravans. But the throw of the 6 speed and the sheer fun of changing gear with that superb 'box is what really attracts it to me. After all, who chooses to use motorways when touring in a 7?
WRT 1st gear- have the long 1st mod, no towball :-)I don't choose to use motorways, in fact I think I only did 20miles on motorways this year... but it was nice to do them at 4000rpm rather than 7000...
Have driven 6 and 5spd, maybe mine is a "good" box but it changes just as sweetly IMO, spends most of its time going 3, 4, 3, 4, 3, 4 (repeat) at the red line... the 6spd is fine but the difference is overrated, sorry.
framerateuk said:
scubadude said:
I don't choose to use motorways, in fact I think I only did 20miles on motorways this year... but it was nice to do them at 4000rpm rather than 7000...
In fairness the 6 speed settles down for me at around 4000 at 70 (ish) in 6th.framerateuk said:
In fairness the 6 speed settles down for me at around 4000 at 70 (ish) in 6th.
I'm guessing scuba chap has a 3.92 'diff in his car. I've driven and owned a lot of 7s (almost as many as Tango7)
and I've never driven a 5 speed that comes close to a 6 in the sheer pleasure of changing gear. But Chris Alston mentioned a new? variant of the 5 that he says works....perhaps that is what scubaboy has? I must try to get a drive in one. rubystone said:
I'm guessing scuba chap has a 3.92 'diff in his car.
I've driven and owned a lot of 7s (almost as many as Tango7) and I've never driven a 5 speed that comes close to a 6 in the sheer pleasure of changing gear. But Chris Alston mentioned a new? variant of the 5 that he says works....perhaps that is what scubaboy has? I must try to get a drive in one.
Yeah, ignore me I've only driven a handful of 7's.I've driven and owned a lot of 7s (almost as many as Tango7)
and I've never driven a 5 speed that comes close to a 6 in the sheer pleasure of changing gear. But Chris Alston mentioned a new? variant of the 5 that he says works....perhaps that is what scubaboy has? I must try to get a drive in one. The change on the 5spd is sublime compared to most usual cars (I have an old BDR, lightened bell with long first) I didn't feel the 6 was much different but perhaps it was an old knacker I drove :-)
I suppose your choice of gearbox might reflect the type and location of your driving, either track or where on the road. Where I live its constant curves with short straights, you're only ever going up or down 1 gear and riding the torque in-between... although I've experienced no issues elsewhere or while in the company of 6spd cars.
Either way, you've got at most 5seconds and maybe 2 gear changes till your beyond the NSL with either box so... choose the box to suit the motor yes but the gearbox shouldn't be a deal breaker IME.
Frankly if I could have a 6th gear I'd want a massive overdrive on top of the existing 5, maybe 2000rpm @75mph to waft along with the tintop scum when the traffics heavy while crossing from one good road to another :-)
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