Sheared seat belt bolt !!!

[mark-tda4s]

OK, So, after laying the Chimaera up for the winter, I got bored so I have decided to lift the body to have the chassis blasted and powder coated. The outriggers dont look bad but Im not putting money on a bit of rot so new ones will be fitted regardless.

After about 12 hours of work, everything is removed that needs removing and I am quite surprised how well its gone even though removing the loom and all the leads around the engine is a little daunting, I have labeled everything up and took loads of pictures so what could possibly go wrong????

The only dilemma I have is that as careful as I was and however much I tried not to shear anything, both seat belt mount screws into the outer rail have sheared, one leaving about 15mm of thread on the bolt so guess its clear of the body but the other one has sheared at the head. I plan to drill it out starting with a 5mm drill and working upward until all the bolt has been removed but it looks like I will struggle to get a drill in square.

Has anyone else experience this and how well did drilling it out work and whats the chance of damaging the bodywork?

Also, whats the going rate for powder coating nowadays?

[ClassiChimi]

I've done the sheared of bolt thing with the outer seat belt bolt. What a bd it was.
Get high class drill bits, start with about 3.5 mm or smaller, be patient and use a battery drill as that should have a small enough body to enable you to go through straight and square.

As your replacing the rigger it won't matter much going off centre as you drill but it will clear out better if you do.

I used one of those bolt removing tools that put a reverse thread into the hole but it snapped off inside, (avoid like the plague) which then destroyed about 6 drill bits removing the hardened jagged bit.
the job took 4 times as long to remove the bolt because of that crap tool I used, using just drills it would have been much easier.
I remember now the guy in the tool shop advising me to use these special bits, told him he'd never used a tool in his life the next time I saw him

If I remember correctly the bolt will be at least 10mm to drill though, use some cutting oil to keep drill bits cool. It'll come out if your careful and not a dumb numptie like me.

[Mark_S_24]

Hi,

I've had many bolts shear on mine. The mains ones being one at the front & one at the back.
I eventually had to lift the body with both bolts still in.
The front was holding on & I did some damage to the Fibreglass to release the front.
This mean we were then able to angle the body to get it off the longer rear bolt.

Bolt at Rear that I tried to drill out
[URL=http://s72.photobucket.com/user/mark_s_24/media/Day%20018%20-%2023-10-2016%20Body%20Off%2026.jpg.html]
[/URL]

Bolt at front (lower right)


I tried drilling, no joy (may be I was doing it wrong)
I tried an Easy-Out... it snapped off inside the bolt
I even tried some Freeze/Shock spray (after many cans of WD40 then Plus Gas)
Eventually with the body off I angle ground some flat ends on the bolt to enable good Mole Grips grip.
Then used a small gas bottle to apply heat. Worked a charm.

HTH
Mark

[Steve_D]

Your outer seatbelt fixings will be replaced with the new outriggers so you don't need to worry to much about how you remove it.
Best way is to get an angle grinder and 1mm thick slitting disk. Working from underneath you can slit up between the outrigger and the body and cut straight through the bolt.

Steve

[portzi]

Steve_D said:

Your outer seatbelt fixings will be replaced with the new outriggers so you don't need to worry to much about how you remove it.
Best way is to get an angle grinder and 1mm thick slitting disk. Working from underneath you can slit up between the outrigger and the body and cut straight through the bolt.

Steve

[ClassiChimi]

Steve_D said:

Your outer seatbelt fixings will be replaced with the new outriggers so you don't need to worry to much about how you remove it.
Best way is to get an angle grinder and 1mm thick slitting disk. Working from underneath you can slit up between the outrigger and the body and cut straight through the bolt.

Steve

Good point.
This will be the best way to get the bolt free of the body.

[phillpot]

portzi said:

Nice safety guard!


I guess same result could be achieved with a bit more effort and a few less sparks using a pad saw? I'd try drilling first ( good quality HSS drill bit is perfectly good enough, bolt should only be the imperial equivalent of 8.8 tensile strength), a hole down the bolt will, in effect, turn it into a tube and be far easier to cut than a solid bar of steel.


Do not go anywhere near it with an "Easi-out".... the Devils invention, snap that off (and they are brittle) and your troubles will be multiplied! (imho)

Edited by phillpot on Tuesday 8th November 08:34

[RobXjcoupe]

The above are good for removing sheared head bolts. One thing is use the correct size for the bolt stud to be removed. Also regular hss drills can struggle cutting into a stud, more so if the bolt dia is small, as the material is generally high tensile and tough. Use a metal cutting carbide drill instead. They will cut harden steel

[portzi]

phillpot said:

portzi said:

Nice safety guard!


I guess same result could be achieved with a bit more effort and a few less sparks using a pad saw? I'd try drilling first ( good quality HSS drill bit is perfectly good enough, bolt should only be the imperial equivalent of 8.8 tensile strength), a hole down the bolt will, in effect, turn it into a tube and be far easier to cut than a solid bar of steel.


Do not go anywhere near it with an "Easi-out".... the Devils invention, snap that off (and they are brittle) and your troubles will be multiplied! (imho)

Edited by phillpot on Tuesday 8th November 08:34

Don't use anything from places like screw fix, these places are the devil's inventions, selling mostly cheap Chinese hand tools made of chocolate. IMHO.

For anyone thinking of using easy outs, they are great if you use a top branded make, with quality titanium nitride coated drill bits, you pay for quality .

Edited by portzi on Tuesday 8th November 09:04

[phazed]

How can the Americans be such an annoying race and make such good quality tools?

[RobXjcoupe]

Yes sorry, good quality equipment is preferred when doing repairs like yours.

The carbide drills will actually drill through a broken easy out but the deal is don't break the easy out to begin with . As mentioned before heat can be applied to expand the outside material but too much heat will also expand the sheared bolt within the hole. If possible re-tap the hole after stud removal and deeper if the material is there so a longer new fixing has a good thread to secure to. Rough rule of thumb for min thread depth is 1.5 x thread diameter for mild steel and cast iron.

[portzi]

phazed said:

How can the Americans be such an annoying race and make such good quality tools?

They are annoying but hopefully not for much longer

[portzi]

RobXjcoupe said:

Yes sorry, good quality equipment is preferred when doing repairs like yours.

The carbide drills will actually drill through a broken easy out but the deal is don't break the easy out to begin with . As mentioned before heat can be applied to expand the outside material but too much heat will also expand the sheared bolt within the hole. If possible re-tap the hole after stud removal and deeper if the material is there so a longer new fixing has a good thread to secure to. Rough rule of thumb for min thread depth is 1.5 x thread diameter for mild steel and cast iron.

I love DORMER tooling,are they still based in Sheffield? You have all bases covered there. The problems only arises when a DIY engineer gets his hands on poor tooling and gets over excited with it all, then breakages occurred. Don't get me started with broken taps either, especially in a blind hole, this is a real PITA.

[RobXjcoupe]

portzi said:

RobXjcoupe said:

Yes sorry, good quality equipment is preferred when doing repairs like yours.

The carbide drills will actually drill through a broken easy out but the deal is don't break the easy out to begin with . As mentioned before heat can be applied to expand the outside material but too much heat will also expand the sheared bolt within the hole. If possible re-tap the hole after stud removal and deeper if the material is there so a longer new fixing has a good thread to secure to. Rough rule of thumb for min thread depth is 1.5 x thread diameter for mild steel and cast iron.

I love DORMER tooling,are they still based in Sheffield? You have all bases covered there. The problems only arises when a DIY engineer gets his hands on poor tooling and gets over excited with it all, then breakages occurred. Don't get me started with broken taps either, especially in a blind hole, this is a real PITA.

Those Dormer items are a few years old now, not sure where they originate from but they do a job well. I try to give snippets of info as and when I read on here. I once got told as an apprentice, toolmakers can make almost anything. I asked what can't a toolmaker make........money!......was the reply.
Although toolmakers do physically make the tooling for the coin production at the mint

[portzi]

RobXjcoupe said:

portzi said:

RobXjcoupe said:

Yes sorry, good quality equipment is preferred when doing repairs like yours.

The carbide drills will actually drill through a broken easy out but the deal is don't break the easy out to begin with . As mentioned before heat can be applied to expand the outside material but too much heat will also expand the sheared bolt within the hole. If possible re-tap the hole after stud removal and deeper if the material is there so a longer new fixing has a good thread to secure to. Rough rule of thumb for min thread depth is 1.5 x thread diameter for mild steel and cast iron.

I love DORMER tooling,are they still based in Sheffield? You have all bases covered there. The problems only arises when a DIY engineer gets his hands on poor tooling and gets over excited with it all, then breakages occurred. Don't get me started with broken taps either, especially in a blind hole, this is a real PITA.

Those Dormer items are a few years old now, not sure where they originate from but they do a job well. I try to give snippets of info as and when I read on here. I once got told as an apprentice, toolmakers can make almost anything. I asked what can't a toolmaker make........money!......was the reply.
Although toolmakers do physically make the tooling for the coin production at the mint

I hope the Mint still use traditional manual methods of machining and not CNC to make its coin punches, but l reckon they will have CNC machines only to combat all the fraud that goes on .

That would be a great place to visit the Royal Mint tool room.

[Steve_D]

portzi said:

That disc looks to be twice or three times the thickness of the ones we use.

A 1mm thick disc will fly through that bolt.

Steve

[portzi]

Steve_D said:

portzi said:

That disc looks to be twice or three times the thickness of the ones we use.

A 1mm thick disc will fly through that bolt.

Steve

Hi Steve,
It's just a picture l got off the internet. The discs the Queen supplies to me , even in Cyprus are thinner too

[RobXjcoupe]

portzi said:

RobXjcoupe said:

portzi said:

RobXjcoupe said:

Yes sorry, good quality equipment is preferred when doing repairs like yours.

The carbide drills will actually drill through a broken easy out but the deal is don't break the easy out to begin with . As mentioned before heat can be applied to expand the outside material but too much heat will also expand the sheared bolt within the hole. If possible re-tap the hole after stud removal and deeper if the material is there so a longer new fixing has a good thread to secure to. Rough rule of thumb for min thread depth is 1.5 x thread diameter for mild steel and cast iron.

I love DORMER tooling,are they still based in Sheffield? You have all bases covered there. The problems only arises when a DIY engineer gets his hands on poor tooling and gets over excited with it all, then breakages occurred. Don't get me started with broken taps either, especially in a blind hole, this is a real PITA.

Those Dormer items are a few years old now, not sure where they originate from but they do a job well. I try to give snippets of info as and when I read on here. I once got told as an apprentice, toolmakers can make almost anything. I asked what can't a toolmaker make........money!......was the reply.
Although toolmakers do physically make the tooling for the coin production at the mint

I hope the Mint still use traditional manual methods of machining and not CNC to make its coin punches, but l reckon they will have CNC machines only to combat all the fraud that goes on .
Cnc is used to run off parts. All machines have uses though. I imagine the punches are cnc milled but they would still require hand finishing as with all production automotive tooling

That would be a great place to visit the Royal Mint tool room.

Funny you say that, my daughter has a school visit there tomorrow.

[portzi]

RobXjcoupe said:

portzi said:

RobXjcoupe said:

portzi said:

RobXjcoupe said:

Yes sorry, good quality equipment is preferred when doing repairs like yours.

The carbide drills will actually drill through a broken easy out but the deal is don't break the easy out to begin with . As mentioned before heat can be applied to expand the outside material but too much heat will also expand the sheared bolt within the hole. If possible re-tap the hole after stud removal and deeper if the material is there so a longer new fixing has a good thread to secure to. Rough rule of thumb for min thread depth is 1.5 x thread diameter for mild steel and cast iron.

I love DORMER tooling,are they still based in Sheffield? You have all bases covered there. The problems only arises when a DIY engineer gets his hands on poor tooling and gets over excited with it all, then breakages occurred. Don't get me started with broken taps either, especially in a blind hole, this is a real PITA.

Those Dormer items are a few years old now, not sure where they originate from but they do a job well. I try to give snippets of info as and when I read on here. I once got told as an apprentice, toolmakers can make almost anything. I asked what can't a toolmaker make........money!......was the reply.
Although toolmakers do physically make the tooling for the coin production at the mint

I hope the Mint still use traditional manual methods of machining and not CNC to make its coin punches, but l reckon they will have CNC machines only to combat all the fraud that goes on .
Cnc is used to run off parts. All machines have uses though. I imagine the punches are cnc milled but they would still require hand finishing as with all production automotive tooling

That would be a great place to visit the Royal Mint tool room.

Funny you say that, my daughter has a school visit there tomorrow.

They might give the school a demonstration of a cutter grinder machine;). Then again it's a play station generation nowerdays

[RobXjcoupe]

portzi said:

They might give the school a demonstration of a cutter grinder machine;). Then again it's a play station generation nowerdays

My daughter has her mothers brains and oh no playstion. Her test results at 11 are exceptional and already got her first gcse grade. I'm very proud of her
I keep telling her, good grades, good job, good stuff to own.