Won at Small Claims Court but nothing from other party
Discussion
Hi All
A few weeks ago we took a supplier / sub contractor to civil court (via Money Claim Online) and won. They had until the 4th of November to pay but we have heard nothing. The amount they owe is around £10k.
What happens now? I havent had any more communication from the court or the other party but I would like to register the fact they havent paid so they get a CCJ lodged against them. At a minimum.
The main guy has set another company up since all this started so I suspect he has asset stripped the original company meaning there wont be anything for bailiffs to take. What should my next steps be?
Thanks in advance - I have never been through this process before so it is all new to me.
A few weeks ago we took a supplier / sub contractor to civil court (via Money Claim Online) and won. They had until the 4th of November to pay but we have heard nothing. The amount they owe is around £10k.
What happens now? I havent had any more communication from the court or the other party but I would like to register the fact they havent paid so they get a CCJ lodged against them. At a minimum.
The main guy has set another company up since all this started so I suspect he has asset stripped the original company meaning there wont be anything for bailiffs to take. What should my next steps be?
Thanks in advance - I have never been through this process before so it is all new to me.
Depends if you want to have a punt at the High Court and get their agents on it.
If he has set up another business he will have to prove that all the assets were bought legally by that company, and prove it to the satisfaction of the Sheriffs. So many of these chancers fall down on the detail, they just think carrying all stock, vehicles etc across to a new name and just saying it's a new business is enough. They have to have documentary proof including bank statements.
Of course he could have done it properly in which case the scumbag has screwed you.
If he has set up another business he will have to prove that all the assets were bought legally by that company, and prove it to the satisfaction of the Sheriffs. So many of these chancers fall down on the detail, they just think carrying all stock, vehicles etc across to a new name and just saying it's a new business is enough. They have to have documentary proof including bank statements.
Of course he could have done it properly in which case the scumbag has screwed you.
FiF said:
Depends if you want to have a punt at the High Court and get their agents on it.
If he has set up another business he will have to prove that all the assets were bought legally by that company, and prove it to the satisfaction of the Sheriffs. So many of these chancers fall down on the detail, they just think carrying all stock, vehicles etc across to a new name and just saying it's a new business is enough. They have to have documentary proof including bank statements.
Of course he could have done it properly in which case the scumbag has screwed you.
So I do not have any recourse just on the civil court ruling?If he has set up another business he will have to prove that all the assets were bought legally by that company, and prove it to the satisfaction of the Sheriffs. So many of these chancers fall down on the detail, they just think carrying all stock, vehicles etc across to a new name and just saying it's a new business is enough. They have to have documentary proof including bank statements.
Of course he could have done it properly in which case the scumbag has screwed you.
I think he probably has screwed me but it was the principle rather than the money. I guess the CCJ will affect his credit rating of the old company. Would it affect his new one too?
How do I actually report back that it wasn't paid? I'm not sure of the next steps.
Northdave, you have ended up where most innocent creditors end up - a CCJ but no money. If only the state justice system was as efficient as getting these debts paid as it is at collecting speeding fines eh?
There are about five official ways to proceed at small claims level, and none of them will have any effect against a wily debtor.
You need to escalate the case to the High Court, who have REAL powers and can really get results. If you need proof, watch a few episodes of 'Can't Pay We'll Take It Away. Those are High Court bailiffs, they don't take no for an answer and they can be working for you very soon if you wish. Here's the first site that came up on Google: http://thesheriffsoffice.com/articles/transferring... Feel free to look for others; I have no association with that company but it shows you where to go next.
There are about five official ways to proceed at small claims level, and none of them will have any effect against a wily debtor.
You need to escalate the case to the High Court, who have REAL powers and can really get results. If you need proof, watch a few episodes of 'Can't Pay We'll Take It Away. Those are High Court bailiffs, they don't take no for an answer and they can be working for you very soon if you wish. Here's the first site that came up on Google: http://thesheriffsoffice.com/articles/transferring... Feel free to look for others; I have no association with that company but it shows you where to go next.
NorthDave said:
So I do not have any recourse just on the civil court ruling?
I think he probably has screwed me but it was the principle rather than the money. I guess the CCJ will affect his credit rating of the old company. Would it affect his new one too?
How do I actually report back that it wasn't paid? I'm not sure of the next steps.
Simpo2 has answered as to how to escalate. To my mind it's worth £66 to give him some aggravation as they don't take no for an answer nor take his word. If he owes you 10k then they will be looking for more than that to recover their legally permitted fees. Everyone on the thread so far has suggested using High Court Sheriffs.I think he probably has screwed me but it was the principle rather than the money. I guess the CCJ will affect his credit rating of the old company. Would it affect his new one too?
How do I actually report back that it wasn't paid? I'm not sure of the next steps.
FiF said:
Simpo2 has answered as to how to escalate. To my mind it's worth £66 to give him some aggravation as they don't take no for an answer nor take his word. If he owes you 10k then they will be looking for more than that to recover their legally permitted fees. Everyone on the thread so far has suggested using High Court Sheriffs.
I think I had misunderstood one of the above posts "have a punt at the high court" - I took this mean that I had to take them to court again to progress. If it is just a case of £66 to get the recovery guys involved then that would be great. I'll do some reading.Thanks for everyone's help!
Hi, we have had this happen once and had to right the money off.
Is it a Ltd company, sole trader or individual you have taken to court. If a Ltd and they went insolvent then there will be nothing you can do even if they have set up a new company.
However going insolvent I believe you need to follow some rules, if an IP is appointed then all creditors need to be informed and invited to a creditors meeting, for most companies nobody turns up as there is no chance of getting any money back.
If no IP is appointed then the Directors should still write to all creditors to inform them the company is closing and there are no assets to pay creditors.
Again I am no lawyer and this is just from my research but if, as another poster has said, they just closed a company down and transferred all the assets then that isn't legal and the Directors could be prosecuted as well as the creditors taking possession of assets etc.
You can access some reports free from Company's House or pay a little to get all the documents from Duedil and Companycheck etc.
You can also look on London Gazette who will post all notices of companies in Liquidation or being struck off.
If it is a sole trader or individual then the High Court Sherrifs are your best bet.
Hope that helps and good luck getting some money back.
Is it a Ltd company, sole trader or individual you have taken to court. If a Ltd and they went insolvent then there will be nothing you can do even if they have set up a new company.
However going insolvent I believe you need to follow some rules, if an IP is appointed then all creditors need to be informed and invited to a creditors meeting, for most companies nobody turns up as there is no chance of getting any money back.
If no IP is appointed then the Directors should still write to all creditors to inform them the company is closing and there are no assets to pay creditors.
Again I am no lawyer and this is just from my research but if, as another poster has said, they just closed a company down and transferred all the assets then that isn't legal and the Directors could be prosecuted as well as the creditors taking possession of assets etc.
You can access some reports free from Company's House or pay a little to get all the documents from Duedil and Companycheck etc.
You can also look on London Gazette who will post all notices of companies in Liquidation or being struck off.
If it is a sole trader or individual then the High Court Sherrifs are your best bet.
Hope that helps and good luck getting some money back.
NorthDave said:
If it is just a case of £66 to get the recovery guys involved then that would be great. I'll do some reading.
It really is that simple, just fill in the form. If you know where your chap lives/works, grab some photos of any vehicles you see outside. And that's just the low hanging fruit.Have a look at this, used in successfully in past but you need details of his bank account -which you may not have. More than 20yrs ago but seem to recall it was relatively easy and reasonably cheap
https://www.purnells.co.uk/limited-company/CCJ/gar...
https://www.purnells.co.uk/limited-company/CCJ/gar...
The High Court sheriffs are very good at what they do. It may take time but they do get their man.
We had a fellow disappear owing us money, he'd sold up his house and business premises and apparently moved to Australia. The sheriffs found him at his mother's house and we got all our money, albeit 18 months late, but we got interest and the sheriffs got their fees.
We had a fellow disappear owing us money, he'd sold up his house and business premises and apparently moved to Australia. The sheriffs found him at his mother's house and we got all our money, albeit 18 months late, but we got interest and the sheriffs got their fees.
NorthDave said:
I think I had misunderstood one of the above posts "have a punt at the high court" - I took this mean that I had to take them to court again to progress. If it is just a case of £66 to get the recovery guys involved then that would be great. I'll do some reading.
Thanks for everyone's help!
Sorry it was me that said have a punt, perhaps I was being a bit cynical that he may be a man of straw, ie nothing worth claiming, or put it all in his wife's name or other stuff the sly gits tend to do.Thanks for everyone's help!
I don't bet but worth a quid or two that he's not done it all properly.
NorthDave said:
Hi All
A few weeks ago we took a supplier / sub contractor to civil court (via Money Claim Online) and won. They had until the 4th of November to pay but we have heard nothing. The amount they owe is around £10k.
What happens now? I havent had any more communication from the court or the other party but I would like to register the fact they havent paid so they get a CCJ lodged against them. At a minimum.
The main guy has set another company up since all this started so I suspect he has asset stripped the original company meaning there wont be anything for bailiffs to take. What should my next steps be?
Thanks in advance - I have never been through this process before so it is all new to me.
By "winning" your case in the County Court a judgement has already been issued ... so the CCJ already exists against them.A few weeks ago we took a supplier / sub contractor to civil court (via Money Claim Online) and won. They had until the 4th of November to pay but we have heard nothing. The amount they owe is around £10k.
What happens now? I havent had any more communication from the court or the other party but I would like to register the fact they havent paid so they get a CCJ lodged against them. At a minimum.
The main guy has set another company up since all this started so I suspect he has asset stripped the original company meaning there wont be anything for bailiffs to take. What should my next steps be?
Thanks in advance - I have never been through this process before so it is all new to me.
As many other have said, don't waste any time or money trying to enforce the CCJ ... get it transferred up to the High Court.
If you use DCBL you might even get the joy of watching them hound the scrote on Channel 5's program
http://dcbltd.com/high_court/ccj/
sgrimshaw said:
If you use DCBL you might even get the joy of watching them hound the scrote on Channel 5's program
http://dcbltd.com/high_court/ccj/
Good grief they're turning into celebrities! It's not a job I'd want, that's for sure.http://dcbltd.com/high_court/ccj/
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