Very approximate PPL costs/hours...
Discussion
I'm just after a very rough idea of what it would cost me to get my PPL. Probably worth mentioning that 10 years ago in the USA I did get to solo stage in the circuit in a PA28 (also solo'd a glider years ago) so I'd hope to be able to at least get back to that level more quickly than a total novice. I've got a few hours in the right hand seat since, and some transferrable nav skills from sailing.
Any ideas on hours/costs, and the best way to eat the metaphorical elephant? (intensive course, or spread out a bit?)
I'm in the Midlands near Coventry...any recommendations for a school? (probably be something I look at next summer)
Thanks in advance!
Any ideas on hours/costs, and the best way to eat the metaphorical elephant? (intensive course, or spread out a bit?)
I'm in the Midlands near Coventry...any recommendations for a school? (probably be something I look at next summer)
Thanks in advance!
Min 45 hours, average about 60. Your previous experience will help towards the lower if you have some natural aptitude and can string together a decent set of week-on-week lessons. One of the things that push up the hours is breaks between lessons (due to weather and/or your commitments and/or money - the standard 4 W's *).
Expect about £10k all-in for a PPL in the UK.
I did my training 10 years ago at Midlands Air Training at Cov - http://www.midlandairtraining.uki.net/home.htm
Ron Walker can be a grumpy old sod but he is an incredibly good instructor and it helps that he is also a PPL examiner (and an IR(R) instructor and examiner). 10/10 recommendation.
Final point - don't see the training as something to get through. You will have some great flying after you get the PPL but some of your best memories will still be your training!
"Why have we stopped here... um why are you getting out?" "You'll be fine. Once round the circuit on your own. Just remember to go around if you're not happy, good luck!" First solo memories...
Expect about £10k all-in for a PPL in the UK.
I did my training 10 years ago at Midlands Air Training at Cov - http://www.midlandairtraining.uki.net/home.htm
Ron Walker can be a grumpy old sod but he is an incredibly good instructor and it helps that he is also a PPL examiner (and an IR(R) instructor and examiner). 10/10 recommendation.
Final point - don't see the training as something to get through. You will have some great flying after you get the PPL but some of your best memories will still be your training!
"Why have we stopped here... um why are you getting out?" "You'll be fine. Once round the circuit on your own. Just remember to go around if you're not happy, good luck!" First solo memories...
- Work, wife, weather, wallet
Echo the above - budget 10-12K (or about £150 per hour), plus equipment, books, exams, medical, and other occasional expenses (eg landing fees away from home).
My advice would be get your medical sorted first (to make sure you're even able to get the licence in the end), and have as many lessons as possible in a short space of time. Don't spread it out if you can avoid it because you'll end up repeating lessons that you've already covered. The great British weather will likely be your limiting factor here.
Don't overlook getting the exams passed either. Years ago I completed all of the PPL flying syllabus but didn't finish all of the written exams (because flying is interesting and reading books is boring
) - once you pass your first exam you have a 2 year window to complete all of the exams or they expire. So my exam passes are all expired so if I wanted to apply for my PPL licence I'd have to do all of the exams again (and get a medical and do some refresher training).
I have no experience of Coventry but my cousin got her PPL there and she loved it.
Enjoy!
My advice would be get your medical sorted first (to make sure you're even able to get the licence in the end), and have as many lessons as possible in a short space of time. Don't spread it out if you can avoid it because you'll end up repeating lessons that you've already covered. The great British weather will likely be your limiting factor here.
Don't overlook getting the exams passed either. Years ago I completed all of the PPL flying syllabus but didn't finish all of the written exams (because flying is interesting and reading books is boring
) - once you pass your first exam you have a 2 year window to complete all of the exams or they expire. So my exam passes are all expired so if I wanted to apply for my PPL licence I'd have to do all of the exams again (and get a medical and do some refresher training).I have no experience of Coventry but my cousin got her PPL there and she loved it.
Enjoy!
Depends on you, time and money available, if you can only do a couple of lessons a month for example it will take a little longer than doing one a week. I was ready for my PPL skills test (passed first time) after around 50 hrs flight training.
This is my PPL blog; I have since changed my PH username to something more apt but I assure you its me
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Total expendature learning at Humberside on the C150 was around £8,500, plus licence issue, a larger aircraft will cost more money to learn in (a C172 was another £13 per hour over the C150's £120 per hour, landing fees may also be more expensive (depending on the airport) in a four seater, hourly costs vary, the further south you go you pay more in general.
There are 9 theory exams to pass, and you have 6 sittings in which to do them (I managed it in five sittings) a radio practical exam and of course the PPL skills test at the end.
It is fantastic fun, the only problem is once you have passed you might find yourself like me looking at buying your own aircraft, be it a share in a slightly more swanky CofA or your own basic (but probably more fun) LAA permit aircraft.
The biggest frustration is the weather in the UK, its a mare it really is.
This is my PPL blog; I have since changed my PH username to something more apt but I assure you its me
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Total expendature learning at Humberside on the C150 was around £8,500, plus licence issue, a larger aircraft will cost more money to learn in (a C172 was another £13 per hour over the C150's £120 per hour, landing fees may also be more expensive (depending on the airport) in a four seater, hourly costs vary, the further south you go you pay more in general.
There are 9 theory exams to pass, and you have 6 sittings in which to do them (I managed it in five sittings) a radio practical exam and of course the PPL skills test at the end.
It is fantastic fun, the only problem is once you have passed you might find yourself like me looking at buying your own aircraft, be it a share in a slightly more swanky CofA or your own basic (but probably more fun) LAA permit aircraft.
The biggest frustration is the weather in the UK, its a mare it really is.
SpamCan said:
Depends on you, time and money available, if you can only do a couple of lessons a month for example it will take a little longer than doing one a week. I was ready for my PPL skills test (passed first time) after around 50 hrs flight training.
This is my PPL blog; I have since changed my PH username to something more apt but I assure you its me
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Total expendature learning at Humberside on the C150 was around £8,500, plus licence issue, a larger aircraft will cost more money to learn in (a C172 was another £13 per hour over the C150's £120 per hour, landing fees may also be more expensive (depending on the airport) in a four seater, hourly costs vary, the further south you go you pay more in general.
There are 9 theory exams to pass, and you have 6 sittings in which to do them (I managed it in five sittings) a radio practical exam and of course the PPL skills test at the end.
It is fantastic fun, the only problem is once you have passed you might find yourself like me looking at buying your own aircraft, be it a share in a slightly more swanky CofA or your own basic (but probably more fun) LAA permit aircraft.
The biggest frustration is the weather in the UK, its a mare it really is.
- completely endorse getting to grips with exams , even 6 months in advance of flyingThis is my PPL blog; I have since changed my PH username to something more apt but I assure you its me
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Total expendature learning at Humberside on the C150 was around £8,500, plus licence issue, a larger aircraft will cost more money to learn in (a C172 was another £13 per hour over the C150's £120 per hour, landing fees may also be more expensive (depending on the airport) in a four seater, hourly costs vary, the further south you go you pay more in general.
There are 9 theory exams to pass, and you have 6 sittings in which to do them (I managed it in five sittings) a radio practical exam and of course the PPL skills test at the end.
It is fantastic fun, the only problem is once you have passed you might find yourself like me looking at buying your own aircraft, be it a share in a slightly more swanky CofA or your own basic (but probably more fun) LAA permit aircraft.
The biggest frustration is the weather in the UK, its a mare it really is.
- regular flying will cut overall training cost
- don't expect to get on with first instructor you go with, we all learn differently
- you can do the course in 6 months; you can do the course in 2 years.......
LAA aircraft by far best way forward over a CofA, especially with IMC and night approval possible.
Wobbegong said:
What flying do you intend to do long term? The NPPL or LAPL could be an alternative route.
This is a good point. If you just want to fly for fun and have no desires to go commercial long term (I do that's why I went for the full PPL(A)) then I'd recommend going down the microlight route, it will save you a fortune and will be just as much (if not more) fun.Thanks for the replies all, much appreciated. A few questions/comments
Wobbegong...you ask what kind of flying I'd like. Well realistically starting now in my 40s I'm never going to land a commercial job, so being realistic I'd like to be able to be a member of a club and fly a club 152/172/PA28 or similar on day or weekend trips. Ultimately if my numbers came up perhaps have a share in something similar, or something small/classic and seat of the pants/open cockpit for some lazy summer evening flying.
What is the difference between NPPL and LAPL?
Kurt535...LAA vs CofA...am I right in the fact that it's essentially kit/classic car vs. production car? What't the difference in training? Can you operate CofA aircraft in places that you can't operate LAA aircraft? Obviously I have no desire to fly into BHX but what is the main difference?
Spamcan...I did read some of your blog, but I will have another read.
Thanks again guys
Wobbegong...you ask what kind of flying I'd like. Well realistically starting now in my 40s I'm never going to land a commercial job, so being realistic I'd like to be able to be a member of a club and fly a club 152/172/PA28 or similar on day or weekend trips. Ultimately if my numbers came up perhaps have a share in something similar, or something small/classic and seat of the pants/open cockpit for some lazy summer evening flying.
What is the difference between NPPL and LAPL?
Kurt535...LAA vs CofA...am I right in the fact that it's essentially kit/classic car vs. production car? What't the difference in training? Can you operate CofA aircraft in places that you can't operate LAA aircraft? Obviously I have no desire to fly into BHX but what is the main difference?
Spamcan...I did read some of your blog, but I will have another read.
Thanks again guys
Hard-Drive said:
Thanks for the replies all, much appreciated. A few questions/comments
Wobbegong...you ask what kind of flying I'd like. Well realistically starting now in my 40s I'm never going to land a commercial job, so being realistic I'd like to be able to be a member of a club and fly a club 152/172/PA28 or similar on day or weekend trips.
There is a thread no more than few weeks old on here talking about that. The consensus is even in your forties, commercial is still quite a viable option. The oldest chap I have met (who had almost completed ground training on the Airbus and did a jump seat flight with me) was in his mid forties. He was just following his dream.Wobbegong...you ask what kind of flying I'd like. Well realistically starting now in my 40s I'm never going to land a commercial job, so being realistic I'd like to be able to be a member of a club and fly a club 152/172/PA28 or similar on day or weekend trips.
Just a thought....
Having your own doesn't need to be too expensive
My old man flies planes helis and microlights
But he loves owning ultralights as well as group A, he nearly bought a pa28 or a 150 but decided against them
So his most recent are a carbon fibre xair falcon then he bought a lovely jabiru (looks like a 150) and he's just bought a rans6, he rents 2 hangers which I believe are 150 a month per aircraft and does his own maintainance and upgrades insurance is about £1500 as well, he loves it
Do it while you can u only have 1 life
For commercial you need to be well funded Virgin Atlantic estimate 110k and are looking for pilots with 0 hours on their future fliers program one of my mates went a different route and lived in Africa doing bush flying to gain hours over here I suspect you would need to do your instructor rating and build hours like that
My old man flies planes helis and microlights
But he loves owning ultralights as well as group A, he nearly bought a pa28 or a 150 but decided against them
So his most recent are a carbon fibre xair falcon then he bought a lovely jabiru (looks like a 150) and he's just bought a rans6, he rents 2 hangers which I believe are 150 a month per aircraft and does his own maintainance and upgrades insurance is about £1500 as well, he loves it
Do it while you can u only have 1 life
For commercial you need to be well funded Virgin Atlantic estimate 110k and are looking for pilots with 0 hours on their future fliers program one of my mates went a different route and lived in Africa doing bush flying to gain hours over here I suspect you would need to do your instructor rating and build hours like that
The NPPL(A) is the National Private Pilot Licence it was an extension of sorts to the micro light licence; NPPL(M) that enabled similar recreational flying only in larger group A aircraft; perfect for those that want to build a kit plane and lazily trundle around on a weekend enjoying the freedom of the sky. The LAPL(A) or Light Aircraft Pilots Licence is essentially a European recognised equivalent of that, iirc it can be upgraded to a PPL at a later date too. I would imagine the vast majority of the flying schools these days won’t offer an NPPL(A) anymore and will instead off the LAPL(A) in its place. With either you are restricted in what you can do with the licence. The LAPL(A) restricts you to four seat, SSEP (Simple Single Engine Piston) that weigh in at 2000kg or less and as far as I am aware you can’t upgrade to something bigger/more complex/multi engine/jet etc without upgrading to a PPL first. Now, though that sounds restrictive, it really isn’t if you just want to be a purely recreational pilot; consider that a PA-28 or C172 are nowhere near 2000kg at MTOW. You can add a night rating to an LAPL(A) but not an NPPL(A), you can’t add an IMC qualification (or IR(R) as it is via EASA regs) to either iirc. They both have a lower hours requirement for rating upkeep (it’s the rating that expires these days not the licence) but I’d argue that doing the minimum, whilst it will keep your rating alive, it’s not good for you as a pilot.
Imho if you will mostly be flying with only one other person aboard and you aren’t a big bloke (I’m 6’ 2” and 16 stone which makes weight and balance in a micro light a bit tricky without a lightweight passenger) and are thinking of going down the NPPL/LAPL route then do the microlight licence instead as I said in a previous post, massively less expensive and no less fun
This is what most people think when you say "microlight":
However, this is also a microlight (3 axis):
In principle an LAA (Light Aircraft Association) certified aircraft operating on a permit to fly (PTF) rather than a CAA certified CofA is not unlike the differences between a kit car and a production car, some orphaned types (aircraft no longer supported by the factory, or the manufacturer no-longer exists) also operate on a PTF. PTF are considerably cheaper to own and operate at nearly half the hourly cost of their CofA brethren *.
There are some restrictions in place but they are not nearly as restricted as they were a decade or so ago. You can't (or couldn't) use permit aircraft for training for a PPL (might have changed) which is why flying schools for a PPL(A) and LAPL(A) use the standard Cessna and Piper aircraft, alongside them being relatively cheap, readily available and well understood by maintenance companies.
Once you have passed your PPL/LAPL you can fly 3 axis microlights and PTF group A aircraft, the latter count towards your biannual rating renewal, microlights do not.
Imho if you will mostly be flying with only one other person aboard and you aren’t a big bloke (I’m 6’ 2” and 16 stone which makes weight and balance in a micro light a bit tricky without a lightweight passenger) and are thinking of going down the NPPL/LAPL route then do the microlight licence instead as I said in a previous post, massively less expensive and no less fun
This is what most people think when you say "microlight":
However, this is also a microlight (3 axis):
In principle an LAA (Light Aircraft Association) certified aircraft operating on a permit to fly (PTF) rather than a CAA certified CofA is not unlike the differences between a kit car and a production car, some orphaned types (aircraft no longer supported by the factory, or the manufacturer no-longer exists) also operate on a PTF. PTF are considerably cheaper to own and operate at nearly half the hourly cost of their CofA brethren *.
There are some restrictions in place but they are not nearly as restricted as they were a decade or so ago. You can't (or couldn't) use permit aircraft for training for a PPL (might have changed) which is why flying schools for a PPL(A) and LAPL(A) use the standard Cessna and Piper aircraft, alongside them being relatively cheap, readily available and well understood by maintenance companies.
Once you have passed your PPL/LAPL you can fly 3 axis microlights and PTF group A aircraft, the latter count towards your biannual rating renewal, microlights do not.
- LAA Permit aircraft can be anything from a plans built aircraft all the way to a deHavilland Chipmunk or an SA Bulldog, the latter being more expensive and maintenance intensive to operate.
Edited by SpamCan on Tuesday 15th November 12:46
Edited by SpamCan on Tuesday 15th November 12:47
Cost difference to get a ppl and an lapl are not significant. Only major differences are longer qxc and need to do vor tracking during the skillls test. I couldn't get the medical for ppl so did the lapl. I've now managed to overcome the medical issue and can get the ppl, so I'm upgrading. The reason is simple - I want an ir(r). Living in the U.K. Means unpredictable weather, so I'd like the insurance policy of an ir(r)... If I lived somewhere with a better climate, I'd be more than happy with the lapl as I only need a max of a 4 seater and you can add night rating, mountain and aeros to it.
Hard-Drive said:
fly a club 152/172/PA28 or similar on day or weekend trips. Ultimately if my numbers came up perhaps have a share in something similar, or something small/classic and seat of the pants/open cockpit for some lazy summer evening flying.
My numbers haven't come up (!) but after hiring PA28s for a while took the jump to a share in an LAA aircraft (Vans RV4) to _save_ money. If you want something with more performance that a microlight but just for recreation (and only 2 seats) then I honestly I think this is the best, most cost-effective route to take. I haven't looked back since. I fly more than I used to, cheaper, faster and in a more interesting aircraft. Not to mention turning it upside down from time to time.There are a couple of limitations with LAA aircraft vs their factory counterparts but I'll bet they won't matter to you and the cost saving of the LAA Permit system is an order of magnitude.
I'm not too far away from you, you're welcome to come over to the airfield and have a look / chat about LAA options post-PPL.
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