Caterham for track days - models and budget?

[mpit]

Hi all,

I'm looking for a Caterham for track days to replace my fairly track focussed E92 M3 - I'm mainly searching for lower on-track running costs and perhaps a bit more thrill/excitement. If I can maintain the sort of pace my M3 has on larger tracks, that would be a bonus but I don't want to end up in something significantly slower (2:12 Snetterton, 2:54 Spa going easy, 0:55 Brands Indy on Cup2s, as an example)

I want something that is track focussed and will aim to trailer to track days, but I'd like it to be road legal perhaps for the odd Sunday morning blast and for convenience in terms of working on it, testing etc.

Looking at the classifieds, things like C400, R400/R500 all look quite handy in terms of power to weight, but what are the differences? Is there anything specific I should be looking for given it's intended use, or anything I should avoid? Given it's pretty much exclusively for track days, I want something with a roll cage.

Just looking for general advice, for the most part.

Budget is around £20k, but I could be willing to stretch that if it's necessary to achieve what I want from the car.

I'd ideally like to buy something that is going to be reasonably safe in terms of value and reasonably easy to move on if the need ever arises.

Thanks in advance!

Edited by mpit on Thursday 10th November 14:07

[one eyed mick]

Old addage if its got tits or wheels it will cost you money !! an investment they are not!!!

[rubystone]

Brands Indy 55 seconds is minimum R400 IMHO. If you just want to do trackdays then your budget will buy you the right spec car. But if you want a roadcar capable of those times I'd say your budget may not be enough.

[sfaulds]

Pretty much any modern Caterham is capable of a 55 round Brands Indy on half decent tyres. A Supersport should be capable of all the times you've suggested, so anything from there up would fit the bill.

[rubystone]

sfaulds said:

Pretty much any modern Caterham is capable of a 55 round Brands Indy on half decent tyres. A Supersport should be capable of all the times you've suggested, so anything from there up would fit the bill.

So my 49 secs in the R500 wasn't that fast then? I knew I wasn't cracked up to be a racing driver

[mpit]

Wow, 49 seconds is beyond impressive. Brands really does seem to favour small and light cars.

[framerateuk]

Just to play devil's advocate...

Why do you care about times on trackdays? I guarantee a 60 second lap in a Caterham would get your heart racing more than a 55 second lap in an M3. My old Megane 250 Cup could lap faster than my Caterham on some tracks, but it still felt like a bus in comparison.

I really think something like an R300 with an aeroscreen will have you laughing out loud.

[Amris]

Are you looking for a track only car or a road and track car. The reason I ask is the ex-race cars usually go for a lot less and you can get something fairly rapid for far less money?

[mpit]

framerateuk said:

Just to play devil's advocate...

Why do you care about times on trackdays? I guarantee a 60 second lap in a Caterham would get your heart racing more than a 55 second lap in an M3. My old Megane 250 Cup could lap faster than my Caterham on some tracks, but it still felt like a bus in comparison.

I really think something like an R300 with an aeroscreen will have you laughing out loud.

You raise a very good point.

For me, it's a very difficult choice to get rid of the M3 in the first place. On slicks, it's insanely fast for what it is, 2:08 around Snetterton, but, I can still use it for a weekend away, a trip out for Sunday lunch with the family etc.

So firstly, I don't want to give up the M3 and lose pace as well as practicality, giving up practicality for a little extra fun and lower on-track running costs is what I'm interested in primarily.

Secondly, I remember when I thought my M3 was as fast as I'd ever need on track. Then I spent a lot of money on suspension, brakes, exhausts, remap etc. searching for a few seconds on track. I want something that is going to be fast enough to keep me entertained as someone that often wants more

And because I (think I) have the budget for it - of the funds realised from the sale of the M3 and it's parts, anything left after the Caterham will likely end up in a road car that spends all week depreciating, only to get used at weekends.

Amris said:

Are you looking for a track only car or a road and track car. The reason I ask is the ex-race cars usually go for a lot less and you can get something fairly rapid for far less money?

Yeah, I've seen a couple of C400s for under £20k.

Is a C400 going to be much faster/focussed than an R400 on track?

While 95% of it's use will be on track, I think I'd quite like the option of taking it out for a Sunday blast or perhaps to get involved with a local meet or something.

[ginger steve]

Fortunate enough to run both a 210bhp Caterham and E90 M3. In my opinion you want at least 200bhp in a Caterham for tracks such as Spa - you would then have the potential to hit low/mid 2:50's in r300/400 guise.

[sfaulds]

rubystone said:

So my 49 secs in the R500 wasn't that fast then? I knew I wasn't cracked up to be a racing driver

Not sure I get you - are you suggesting there is >6 seconds a lap between an R400 and R500?

[framerateuk]

mpit said:

You raise a very good point.

For me, it's a very difficult choice to get rid of the M3 in the first place. On slicks, it's insanely fast for what it is, 2:08 around Snetterton, but, I can still use it for a weekend away, a trip out for Sunday lunch with the family etc.

So firstly, I don't want to give up the M3 and lose pace as well as practicality, giving up practicality for a little extra fun and lower on-track running costs is what I'm interested in primarily.

Secondly, I remember when I thought my M3 was as fast as I'd ever need on track. Then I spent a lot of money on suspension, brakes, exhausts, remap etc. searching for a few seconds on track. I want something that is going to be fast enough to keep me entertained as someone that often wants more

And because I (think I) have the budget for it - of the funds realised from the sale of the M3 and it's parts, anything left after the Caterham will likely end up in a road car that spends all week depreciating, only to get used at weekends.

I totally understand what you mean, I'm just saying that everyone who's new to Caterhams thinks they need loads of horsepower, where in fact, they might not (especially if you want to keep costs more sensible).

My suggestion would be to hire one from Bookatrack for a trackday and see how you get on, they have a few models available from what I've read.

[SimonSh]

140BHP + in any standard chassis Caterham with decent tyres will easily tick the boxes you are looking for in my opinion
Like other posters have said stick the times aren't that relevant because you are out there for fun, and you'll get spades more per £ in a Caterham!!!

[D7PNY]

I would say r300 power upwards will be fine for your suggested use provided you go for 6 speed box.

More power will be good for the bigger tracks but for example my r300 spec car matches the times of a 550bhp evo sprint car round sprint tracks. I imagine that at the bigger tracks the extra power on the straights would come in handy.

And an m3 will feel dull in comparison to caterham. I've driven plenty 'fast' cars and find it amusing when I get bored in pretty exotic stuff nowadays as just feels to safe.

Dave

[Steve Campbell]

The advice above to drive one first before deciding is likely the best advice so far.

For tracks with longer straights, you likely need 200BHP or there about's or you'll find it runs out of legs. Caterham's are not about long straights and top speed. I reckon even a 140BHP machine will have you hooting and laughing on one of the more twisty circuits but given your past history, R400 is more likely the better choice. I'd guess you'll need some time to adjust to a slightly different driving style aswell.

[Amris]

mpit said:

Amris said:

Are you looking for a track only car or a road and track car. The reason I ask is the ex-race cars usually go for a lot less and you can get something fairly rapid for far less money?

Yeah, I've seen a couple of C400s for under £20k.

Is a C400 going to be much faster/focussed than an R400 on track?

While 95% of it's use will be on track, I think I'd quite like the option of taking it out for a Sunday blast or perhaps to get involved with a local meet or something.

From my experience a R300 race car similar to that used by BookaTrack with a good driver behind the wheel is fairly unstoppable on track. They generally command a lower price tag and will come full track prepped. e.g. stripped out, roll cage, flat floored etc. You may also find they have been fitted with up-rated suspension, slicks etc. All of this you can do yourself to any to Caterham but obviously at a cost.

My line of thought was if your just after a track toy they represent great value for money and far more performance for the money. Guess it depends on how important those Sunday drives are :-)

[shrink1061]

I bought my roadsport 1.6 K as a track car, and it's just as hilarious as my friends 420R SV in anything other than straight line speed.

Its hugely entertaining, and once you get dialed in to the track, manages to stay in front of almost anything. On my day at Blyton park, by the time I went out for the last 30 minute session (having spent the whole day getting used to the car and the track) I was overtaken only once in the whole 30 minute session, and I lapped a few other cars several times. Pretty much nothing was as quick and that's only 120 (ish) BHP.

A properly set up Caterham with a good driver is fun almost no matter what the power (within reason). 120bhp upwards and you'll be grinning from ear to ear.

[coppice]

I am no driving god , far from it , but with a puny (some say )160 bhp Seven very little came near ; I amazed myself one day by overtaking a Porsche GT2 one lap and a GT 3 the next, they must have been even more of plodder than I am . But reality checks come in the form of proper drivers- which is why I also recall being blitzed by a rallycross Nova- with passengers- being driven by a pro.

If your ego need massaging by overtaking everything in sight or your manhood wilts if you are overtaken too often on a track day just remember it's just daft buggers like us exercising their inner Walter Mitties .

[mpit]

It's got nothing to do with ego, if that was the case I'd just keep the M3 - on Slicks, the only thing that's passed me is a Radical.

I'm sure they are fun with <200bhp, I've watched Locosts with 90bhp and that looks like great fun but I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting power if you've got the budget for it?

[coppice]

Not suggesting your ego is anything other than well resolved; point I was making is that sometimes on trackday threads there is a willy waving subtext .