Notice of leave DRAMA...what is legally enforcable?

[Humour]

Hi all, I would appreciate some advice from those in the know, although admittedly this may fall more into the legal/law section. If so I apologise in advance.

Well after 15 years of service to the same board of directors, although spread across two companies where 6 years were served with one, then a further 9 years with another limited entity I have decided to take up a new opportunity to better myself.

Long story short, I think it came as a bit of s shock, etc. I gave my notice officially via letter on 31/10/16 stating the statutory 4wks, with an intended last day on 2/12/16.

My employer returned serve with, and I quote: "As per the terms and conditions of employment, I would like to inform you that you are obliged to provide 12 weeks notice as you have greater than 12 years service even though some part of the employment was with two companies in the Group. I can therefore confirm that your final working day will be Friday 20th of January 2016."

Now looking through my employee records, the company changed the employee t's and c's in 2011 introducing the 12weeks notice of leave, but I simply see a letter of notice, no new contract or a signature on my part to change of terms of contract. The original contract as far back as 2001 however states that t's &c's are subject to change and that I agree and accept this as part of my contract through notification.

My questions on the subject are:

1. Can they enforce the 12 weeks in a court of law, if I seized to turn up after the 2nd of December?
2. If the majority shareholders on the board essentially own both companies, even though to companies house both are separate limited entities, can the employer claim 12+ years service "combined" applies?

Any constructive feedback considered.

Many thanks in advance.

Hum

[xjay1337]

I would take it as original contract. 4 weeks.

[Sir Lord Poopie]

Be realistic they're never going to take a lowly employee to court.

[bitchstewie]

I guess it depends on the job role but I've never quite understood why an employer would want to make someone who doesn't want to be working for them, work for them.

[essayer]

What did the 'letter of notice' say?

[Sir Bagalot]

essayer said:

What did the 'letter of notice' say?

This

[Humour]

Sir Bagalot said:

essayer said:

What did the 'letter of notice' say?

This

Looking at the starting statement in the second paragraph now, I concede that I may have made an incorrect statement, in light of the changes to t's&c's in 2011.

Here it is, with some detail removed...

"Dear XXXX,

Further to our conversation on Thursday the 27th of October please accept this letter as notice of my resignation from the roles of Product Development, Pre and Post Sales Technical and Applications support at XXXX Ltd.

As per the terms of my employment contract, I will continue to work for the company for the next four weeks, terminating my employment on Friday the 2nd of December.

Given the circumstances and not wishing to leave the team in a difficult position, I will make myself available on my personal phone and email, if required, to either XXXX or yourself for the foreseeable future."

Hum.

[blearyeyedboy]

^ I wouldn't have signed it "Hum", if I were you.

Seriously, check your house insurance policy. Sometimes the legal cover included will include employment disputes. If you've paid for it, you may as well use it.

[Humour]

Sir Lord Poopie said:

Be realistic they're never going to take a lowly employee to court.

I accept that, however I do not want to leave on bad terms given the amount of time and personal effort invested in the organisation, if I can help it.

Hum

[Humour]

blearyeyedboy said:

^ I wouldn't have signed it "Hum", if I were you.

Seriously, check your house insurance policy. Sometimes the legal cover included will include employment disputes. If you've paid for it, you may as well use it.

thanks I'll remember next time.

good shout on the house insurance, just paid that this month.

Hum

[4x4Tyke]

Your next step should be that they produce evidence of your agreement to the change of employment terms. A contract cannot be arbitrarily changed without your agreement.

[DSLiverpool]

If you agree with 12 weeks my experience is that they just dont want you there after maybe 5/6 max and send you on gardening - 6 week paid holiday ?

[NDA]

4x4Tyke said:

Your next step should be that they produce evidence of your agreement to the change of employment terms. A contract cannot be arbitrarily changed without your agreement.

This.

[WinstonWolf]

Humour said:

Sir Lord Poopie said:

Be realistic they're never going to take a lowly employee to court.

I accept that, however I do not want to leave on bad terms given the amount of time and personal effort invested in the organisation, if I can help it.

Hum

I suspect the best course of action lies somewhere in the middle, a compromise arrangement will probably suit both you and the company better once the initial surprise for them has subsided.

I'd have a chat in person and see what you can come up with...

[Humour]

NDA said:

4x4Tyke said:

Your next step should be that they produce evidence of your agreement to the change of employment terms. A contract cannot be arbitrarily changed without your agreement.

This.

I agree, however the original contract's t's &c's stipulate that changes may occur subject to a provision of a notice and I quote:

"I also accept the terms of these documents may change from time to time and that I shall be notified of such changes" - this is listed on the 2001 "Statement of Terms of Employment" document I signed when joining the company.

Given that, then a notice of changes to employee hand book t's & c's via letter as a form of notification puts the question of requesting evidence to bed legally, no?

I don't have the notice letter to hand, but I did see a letter of notification on the subject in my personal file, I will be photocopying that on Monday and anything else I may have missed.

Hum

[Jakg]

4x4Tyke said:

Your next step should be that they produce evidence of your agreement to the change of employment terms. A contract cannot be arbitrarily changed without your agreement.

But if the OP was presented with the contract, and continued to work under it - it's deemed to have been accepted.

[Mr Pointy]

You signed a contract stating they could alter the terms & conditions of that contract by notifying you.

They then changed the terms & notified you. Presumably you didn't challenge this change at the time?

Now you post on here wanting legal advice from a bunch of randoms on the internet who have no financial liability for you following any rubbish they post. If Breadvan was still posting he would be able to give accurate advice but he eventually gave up defeated by the torrent of nonsense posted on these sorts of topics (& it's continuing on this one).

If you are really concerned get paid professional advice before you land yourself in a situation where you lose your house to pay the other sides legal fees.

No doubt the randoms will post saying this will never happen; in that case get them to agree to unlimited indemnification of any financial implications of following their advice. Don't hold your breath waiting for a response.

My utterly unqualified view? You agreed they could change the T&Cs, they did so, you didn't object & carried on working, the new T&Cs are valid, you owe them 12 weeks notice.

[Evanivitch]

The way I see it is your current employer has set out their contractual position as they understand it.

They're not happy with 4 weeks, but surely you can be adults and sit down and reach a comprise?

Does your new employer beed you then immediately? Is there training or something lined up?

[Humour]

WinstonWolf said:

I suspect the best course of action lies somewhere in the middle, a compromise arrangement will probably suit both you and the company better once the initial surprise for them has subsided.

I'd have a chat in person and see what you can come up with...

Duly noted..... Mr Wolf.

Agree. I already had a chat with my MD two weeks ago, he requested to stay up to Xmas. I said I will have to check if that's acceptable at the other end and get back to him. I got back to him with the end of the first week in December (02/12). In a follow up conversation he stated "make it official" so I submitted a letter on the 27/10. HR came back with a letter stating the 12 weeks which the MD said he had to notify me of.

I'm due to talk with him again early next week...

I also agree that compromise is required but it's turning into a crude form of negotiation where I'm starting to feel very much like a ping pong in this. I'm also getting the feeling everyone is starting to play to their selfish needs, whilst all I want to do is finish outstanding work and leave them in a clean state instead of faff about and waste valuable remaining time on such rubbish.

Hum

[Humour]

@MrPointy

this isn't an attempt to get free legal advice from joe public. I agree with your point 100%.

I have my own understanding and opinion on the matter, I am simply seeking others opinions for balance.

I'm also aware that unfortunately beyond a certain point it's a case to discuss with lawyers as thats whom the contract t's & c's were formed by in the first place. I'm just hoping to avoid going that far.

Hum