Ferrari press cars vs customer cars?
Discussion
Hi All,
Having seen a few journalist videos on the 488 singing its praises and describing how fast it is, I was surprised to see this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P9Zl4BqG18 from a guy who has a lot of experience with super cars and hyper cars. He makes it clear that Ferrari press cars are very different to customer cars. What is your opinion on this, and is this something other manufacturers do?
Having seen a few journalist videos on the 488 singing its praises and describing how fast it is, I was surprised to see this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P9Zl4BqG18 from a guy who has a lot of experience with super cars and hyper cars. He makes it clear that Ferrari press cars are very different to customer cars. What is your opinion on this, and is this something other manufacturers do?
They are renowned for it and it's not just hearsay. Something else I have learned since embarking on a Ferrari project is that their published weights are a nonsense: everything including the Speciale weighs a lot more than published figures - in that case 1395kg claimed but 1490kg real world.
Other manufacturers do it but Ferrari seem to really take it to extremes.
Other manufacturers do it but Ferrari seem to really take it to extremes.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Looks like people are already discussing similar.
Looks like people are already discussing similar.
mwstewart said:
They are renowned for it and it's not just hearsay. Something else I have learned since embarking on a Ferrari project is that their published weights are a nonsense: everything including the Speciale weighs a lot more than published figures - in that case 1395kg claimed but 1490kg real world.
Other manufacturers do it but Ferrari seem to really take it to extremes.
To be fair to Ferrari, it seems their quoted published weights are without fuel and there's supposed to be something in the manual that does state that. So adding a full tank of fuel and full lightweight options/option delete then it's quite possible that there are good reasons why claimed vs real world weights are 100kg different. Also Porsche are not much better than Ferrari as far as claimed weight is concerned as no Porsche I know of weighs anything like the claimed factory weight either.... 991 RS at factory 1420kg vs most cars weighing much nearer 1500kg afaik for example. Other manufacturers do it but Ferrari seem to really take it to extremes.
isaldiri said:
To be fair to Ferrari, it seems their quoted published weights are without fuel and there's supposed to be something in the manual that does state that. So adding a full tank of fuel and full lightweight options/option delete then it's quite possible that there are good reasons why claimed vs real world weights are 100kg different. Also Porsche are not much better than Ferrari as far as claimed weight is concerned as no Porsche I know of weighs anything like the claimed factory weight either.... 991 RS at factory 1420kg vs most cars weighing much nearer 1500kg afaik for example.
Ahh, OK, so they came up with their own definition of curb weight 
I've recently been in discussion with a tester from a Swiss performance car magazine and he reported McLaren stand out as being pretty accurate with their published weights. BMW, and Porsche - as you mention - are often 'weigh' out.mjw0321 said:
Hi All,
Having seen a few journalist videos on the 488 singing its praises and describing how fast it is, I was surprised to see this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P9Zl4BqG18 from a guy who has a lot of experience with super cars and hyper cars. He makes it clear that Ferrari press cars are very different to customer cars. What is your opinion on this, and is this something other manufacturers do?
Honestly, do you really take anything this guy says seriously??? He seems to have a fair few quid yet for some reason has sold most of his decent cars (personalised Pagani / 4.0 RS / so on... and now holds 'mostly' bling tat (expensive tat sure (how many RR??)). He was for a brief moment, watchable. Now he's pumping out vids like a giddy LA Shmee, find him quite annoying TBH and see his 'expert' view as nothing more that a magpie affection for cars - Ooo look something bright shiny and new. And you know someone's a n0b when they post a 'How I make my money' vid.Having seen a few journalist videos on the 488 singing its praises and describing how fast it is, I was surprised to see this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P9Zl4BqG18 from a guy who has a lot of experience with super cars and hyper cars. He makes it clear that Ferrari press cars are very different to customer cars. What is your opinion on this, and is this something other manufacturers do?
Sure they roll out press cars... But not for EVERY journo test that's out there, impossible to cover and he's the first to play down the 488. Everywhere else has it as amazing, sure maybe down on soul / noise but still mega #EngineOfTheYear2016.
Of course he's absolutely spot on after a quick drive through busy LA traffic
)Ferrari are renowned for it yes... part of their character almost!
But they do on occasion use this witchcraft for good, there are many cars running around that have been mapped by the factory to resolve certain issues.
I have personal experience with this and I recall in particular a 599 HGTE that had an unusual pause on upshift, after an eventual visit from SAT in Italy the cars performance was hugely upgraded, the fault rectified and the car is permanently marked on Ferrari's ModisCS system for factory assistance on any engine or gearbox complaints
One of the quickest cars of its genre I've driven, GTO included.
But they do on occasion use this witchcraft for good, there are many cars running around that have been mapped by the factory to resolve certain issues.
I have personal experience with this and I recall in particular a 599 HGTE that had an unusual pause on upshift, after an eventual visit from SAT in Italy the cars performance was hugely upgraded, the fault rectified and the car is permanently marked on Ferrari's ModisCS system for factory assistance on any engine or gearbox complaints
One of the quickest cars of its genre I've driven, GTO included.
Ferrari do a great job of marketing their cars and controlling perceptions of journalists, bloggers and customers. For example, Porsche, McLaren and Lambo all beat LaFerrari round the Nurb and most other tracks, but still the LaFerrari bubbled to the top as the widely-perceived best.
Yipper said:
Ferrari do a great job of marketing their cars and controlling perceptions of journalists, bloggers and customers. For example, Porsche, McLaren and Lambo all beat LaFerrari round the Nurb and most other tracks, but still the LaFerrari bubbled to the top as the widely-perceived best.
Think that has less to do with it being the best and more with it having a high-revving V12 and being a Ferrari. If you gave me the choice, I'd also take the Ferrari over the other two and it would not matter to me if it was the slowest. Personally I couldn't care less what Ferrari or anyone else get up to. I'll never have the talent to explore the outer limits of such a car's performance and on public roads I'd never have the opportunity, even if I did have the talent, so variations in weight/power/etc. that only really manifest themselves when you're driving at 80%+ are irrelevant. To me, if a car looks right, sounds right and feels right then it is right. This is why I get tired of seeing endless reviews of seasoned road testers going sideways around tracks. I don't have their driving ability and I don't have unlimited access to race circuits. I want to know what joys an ordinary person can get out of a car on ordinary roads. I'd take a 'slow' 1980s Ferrari over a new one every time.
MitchT said:
I'd take a 'slow' 1980s Ferrari over a new one every time.
People always like to say that but seriously, would you really take a 348 over a speciale for a drive in say the black forest or mid/north wales......? Fair play if you would but I find it very hard to believe anyone who has driven both cars would do so.MitchT said:
Personally I couldn't care less what Ferrari or anyone else get up to. I'll never have the talent to explore the outer limits of such a car's performance and on public roads I'd never have the opportunity, even if I did have the talent, so variations in weight/power/etc. that only really manifest themselves when you're driving at 80%+ are irrelevant. To me, if a car looks right, sounds right and feels right then it is right. This is why I get tired of seeing endless reviews of seasoned road testers going sideways around tracks. I don't have their driving ability and I don't have unlimited access to race circuits. I want to know what joys an ordinary person can get out of a car on ordinary roads. I'd take a 'slow' 1980s Ferrari over a new one every time.
That's all well and good but the stratum that Ferrari occupy with other supercar marques is one where "80%+" differences are material.If it wasn't potentially a deciding factor then Ferrari wouldn't bother doing it. Allegedly.*
* If you're reading this Ferrari S.p.A - I would very much like another one in the future so please don't blacklist me. Thx
MitchT said:
Personally I couldn't care less what Ferrari or anyone else get up to. I'll never have the talent to explore the outer limits of such a car's performance and on public roads I'd never have the opportunity, even if I did have the talent, so variations in weight/power/etc. that only really manifest themselves when you're driving at 80%+ are irrelevant. To me, if a car looks right, sounds right and feels right then it is right. This is why I get tired of seeing endless reviews of seasoned road testers going sideways around tracks. I don't have their driving ability and I don't have unlimited access to race circuits. I want to know what joys an ordinary person can get out of a car on ordinary roads. I'd take a 'slow' 1980s Ferrari over a new one every time.
It really doesn't take driving near the limit to appreciate differences in power, handling, and weight, but yes - a car can be great regardless of deficiencies in those areas.isaldiri said:
People always like to say that but seriously, would you really take a 348 over a speciale for a drive in say the black forest or mid/north wales......? Fair play if you would but I find it very hard to believe anyone who has driven both cars would do so.
there is a time and place for slower classic ferraris imo, when you have 9 points on your license I own this actual car.
When I first had the cambelts changed back in 2001 the garage had a problem - the bearings and cambelt set up was different to all other F355's they'd done a cambelt change on.
They needed to seek advise from Maranello and were sent some parts from Italy to 'put it back to standard'.......
Mmm? I wonder why mine wasn't the same as everyone else's?
Could it have been the VMax test at Bruntingthorpe?......the laps of Donnington?.....the Drag Race at Santa Pod?..... or the lapping of Millbrook?
It was quite a comprehensive test against the 911 Turbo so Ferrari would have been 'keen' to come out on top. They even replaced the front number plate (badly) with a stick-on one presumably to save weight/improve aerodynamics....
When I first had the cambelts changed back in 2001 the garage had a problem - the bearings and cambelt set up was different to all other F355's they'd done a cambelt change on.
They needed to seek advise from Maranello and were sent some parts from Italy to 'put it back to standard'.......
Mmm? I wonder why mine wasn't the same as everyone else's?
Could it have been the VMax test at Bruntingthorpe?......the laps of Donnington?.....the Drag Race at Santa Pod?..... or the lapping of Millbrook?
It was quite a comprehensive test against the 911 Turbo so Ferrari would have been 'keen' to come out on top. They even replaced the front number plate (badly) with a stick-on one presumably to save weight/improve aerodynamics....
Recent Sportauto test showed a dyno of a press 488. Quoted at 670, dyno'd at 700ps. Not too bad....however, other cars are also similarly over on their dyno test. So either everyone is doing it or their dyno reads wrong. Either way, 488 is reported to be fast because it is fast. I've driven at least 5 different ones, all mega quick. Quicker than the 12C I did 10k miles in.
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