Discussion
We have a new dishwasher the brand of which I won't mention but lets just call them 'Warm Spot' (I know should have went for Bosch)
£500 and installed May 2015. Last week it developed a fault in which in won't work until you do the programme and restart upwards of 30-40 times. I believe it might be the door sensor.
Phoned the manufacturer helpline only to get through to someone who really shouldn't be employed in aftersales or customer service. He kept saying 'well sir problems do occur outside the year guarantee but thats life"
So £500 and the thing buggers up after 17 months they want £140 to come out and look at at, and then another £20 a month payments in case the thing buggers up again.
The law on this is somewhat of a grey area but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect it to be repaired or replaced.
Anyone know who I should contact apart from Watchdog
£500 and installed May 2015. Last week it developed a fault in which in won't work until you do the programme and restart upwards of 30-40 times. I believe it might be the door sensor.
Phoned the manufacturer helpline only to get through to someone who really shouldn't be employed in aftersales or customer service. He kept saying 'well sir problems do occur outside the year guarantee but thats life"
So £500 and the thing buggers up after 17 months they want £140 to come out and look at at, and then another £20 a month payments in case the thing buggers up again.
The law on this is somewhat of a grey area but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect it to be repaired or replaced.
Anyone know who I should contact apart from Watchdog
BlueHave said:
The law on this is somewhat of a grey area
No, not really.Outside of six months from new, it's for you to prove that the problem was an inherent problem that renders the product unfit for purpose. And your contract's with the supplier - have you spoken to them at all, or just the manufacturer?
How much would it cost to buy a door sensor and fit it yourself?
How much would a local indie charge to do it?
TooMany2cvs said:
BlueHave said:
The law on this is somewhat of a grey area
No, not really.Outside of six months from new, it's for you to prove that the problem was an inherent problem that renders the product unfit for purpose. And your contract's with the supplier - have you spoken to them at all, or just the manufacturer?
How much would it cost to buy a door sensor and fit it yourself?
How much would a local indie charge to do it?
Not sure if it is the door sensor it's just my theory which could be wrong as dishwasher aren't my strong point.
Indie would be £100 an hour so not that much different to hotpoint.
Try this:
So how does the EU rule change things?
The EU directive in question is 1999/44/EC. The full wording is contained here (open the word documtent and scroll to page 7) but the important bit is this: 'A two-year guarantee applies for the sale of all consumer goods everywhere in the EU. In some countries, this may be more, and some manufacturers also choose to offer a longer warranty period.'
As with UK law, a seller is not bound by the guarantee 'if the (fault) has its origin in materials supplied by the consumer'. But the EU rule does not require the buyer to show the fault is inherent in the product and not down to their actions.
The EU rule also says buyers need to report a problem within two months of discovering it if they want to be covered under the rule.
How can I use this rule?
Reports of cases where shoppers have used the EU rule to get refunds suggest that even senior staff at stores may be unaware of it, so be prepared for some blank faces if you need to use it to argue your case. But eventually, after referring the complaint to legal teams, reports suggest the stores have coughed up.
Use this checklist to see if you could try and use the EU rule:
• The goods were purchased no longer than two years ago
• The store will not provide a refund or repair because you are returning the item after their return period has ended, usually one year
• You are reporting the fault within two months of discovering it
• The goods show no signs of damage through your actions or misuse.
The best advice is to print off the EU rule and take a copy with you. If staff fail to recognise it, ask them to take your details and report your complaint to their bosses. Take a note of the names of any staff you speak to and explain that you will contact them again soon for a response.
So how does the EU rule change things?
The EU directive in question is 1999/44/EC. The full wording is contained here (open the word documtent and scroll to page 7) but the important bit is this: 'A two-year guarantee applies for the sale of all consumer goods everywhere in the EU. In some countries, this may be more, and some manufacturers also choose to offer a longer warranty period.'
As with UK law, a seller is not bound by the guarantee 'if the (fault) has its origin in materials supplied by the consumer'. But the EU rule does not require the buyer to show the fault is inherent in the product and not down to their actions.
The EU rule also says buyers need to report a problem within two months of discovering it if they want to be covered under the rule.
How can I use this rule?
Reports of cases where shoppers have used the EU rule to get refunds suggest that even senior staff at stores may be unaware of it, so be prepared for some blank faces if you need to use it to argue your case. But eventually, after referring the complaint to legal teams, reports suggest the stores have coughed up.
Use this checklist to see if you could try and use the EU rule:
• The goods were purchased no longer than two years ago
• The store will not provide a refund or repair because you are returning the item after their return period has ended, usually one year
• You are reporting the fault within two months of discovering it
• The goods show no signs of damage through your actions or misuse.
The best advice is to print off the EU rule and take a copy with you. If staff fail to recognise it, ask them to take your details and report your complaint to their bosses. Take a note of the names of any staff you speak to and explain that you will contact them again soon for a response.
I bought a warm spot machine in November of last year, it came with a 1 year parts & labour plus 10 year parts guarantee. The 10 year bit only applied if you registered the purchase - I know the labour will vastly outweigh the cost of the door sensor, but might this help your situation?
My OH had an older machine built by their parent company (might be something to do with independent seats) - on that one, the door wouldn't stay closed - I eventually managed to fix it by inserting a butter knife into the latch on the door side & rolling the lock back to the correct position - it might be the same problem you have. Also, if you bought it from some high-street shops or if you bank with certain institutions, they offer extra year's warranties on large electrical kit - possibly another avenue to explore.
My OH had an older machine built by their parent company (might be something to do with independent seats) - on that one, the door wouldn't stay closed - I eventually managed to fix it by inserting a butter knife into the latch on the door side & rolling the lock back to the correct position - it might be the same problem you have. Also, if you bought it from some high-street shops or if you bank with certain institutions, they offer extra year's warranties on large electrical kit - possibly another avenue to explore.
Cooperman said:
Try this:
So how does the EU rule change things?
The EU directive in question is 1999/44/EC. The full wording is contained here (open the word documtent and scroll to page 7) but the important bit is this: 'A two-year guarantee applies for the sale of all consumer goods everywhere in the EU. In some countries, this may be more, and some manufacturers also choose to offer a longer warranty period.'
As with UK law, a seller is not bound by the guarantee 'if the (fault) has its origin in materials supplied by the consumer'. But the EU rule does not require the buyer to show the fault is inherent in the product and not down to their actions.
The EU rule also says buyers need to report a problem within two months of discovering it if they want to be covered under the rule.
How can I use this rule?
Reports of cases where shoppers have used the EU rule to get refunds suggest that even senior staff at stores may be unaware of it, so be prepared for some blank faces if you need to use it to argue your case. But eventually, after referring the complaint to legal teams, reports suggest the stores have coughed up.
Use this checklist to see if you could try and use the EU rule:
• The goods were purchased no longer than two years ago
• The store will not provide a refund or repair because you are returning the item after their return period has ended, usually one year
• You are reporting the fault within two months of discovering it
• The goods show no signs of damage through your actions or misuse.
The best advice is to print off the EU rule and take a copy with you. If staff fail to recognise it, ask them to take your details and report your complaint to their bosses. Take a note of the names of any staff you speak to and explain that you will contact them again soon for a response.
The problem is that that rule has never been enacted into UK law. Ours was considered better, as it allows claims for up to 6yrs, but it's so vague as to be useless. At the end of the day it's only useful if the item can't be repaired.So how does the EU rule change things?
The EU directive in question is 1999/44/EC. The full wording is contained here (open the word documtent and scroll to page 7) but the important bit is this: 'A two-year guarantee applies for the sale of all consumer goods everywhere in the EU. In some countries, this may be more, and some manufacturers also choose to offer a longer warranty period.'
As with UK law, a seller is not bound by the guarantee 'if the (fault) has its origin in materials supplied by the consumer'. But the EU rule does not require the buyer to show the fault is inherent in the product and not down to their actions.
The EU rule also says buyers need to report a problem within two months of discovering it if they want to be covered under the rule.
How can I use this rule?
Reports of cases where shoppers have used the EU rule to get refunds suggest that even senior staff at stores may be unaware of it, so be prepared for some blank faces if you need to use it to argue your case. But eventually, after referring the complaint to legal teams, reports suggest the stores have coughed up.
Use this checklist to see if you could try and use the EU rule:
• The goods were purchased no longer than two years ago
• The store will not provide a refund or repair because you are returning the item after their return period has ended, usually one year
• You are reporting the fault within two months of discovering it
• The goods show no signs of damage through your actions or misuse.
The best advice is to print off the EU rule and take a copy with you. If staff fail to recognise it, ask them to take your details and report your complaint to their bosses. Take a note of the names of any staff you speak to and explain that you will contact them again soon for a response.
I tried this with that company that everyone raves about, JohnLewis, when my daughter was given a vacuum cleaner which must have been about the only electrical item JL sold without their 2yr warranty. They quoted the law back to me and told me to get stuffed.
Thankfully the manufacturer (Electrolux) was good as gold and collected it and repaired it.
Edited by Sheepshanks on Tuesday 15th November 16:31
alangla said:
My OH had an older machine built by their parent company (might be something to do with independent seats) - on that one, the door wouldn't stay closed - I eventually managed to fix it by inserting a butter knife into the latch on the door side & rolling the lock back to the correct position - it might be the same problem you have.
OP: If you try this, unplug (or isolate) the machine first. Most have the controller in the door.Cooperman said:
So how does the EU rule change things?
The EU directive in question is 1999/44/EC.
Which, in itself, means nothing.The EU directive in question is 1999/44/EC.
It was incorporated into UK law as The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002. And it's not a guarantee in the way you're thinking of. It doesn't add very much on top of that SOGA six month presumption.
BlueHave said:
(I know should have went for Bosch)
I bought a Bosch dishwasher a few years ago for the 2 year warranty and the belief that it was German and wouldn't breakdown It broke down 3 times during the warranty period, all fixed free of charge. About a week after the warranty finished it broke down again. It was the biggest heap of German crap I have ever had the pleasure of owning.
We got rid of it and now wash up in the sink, by hand, and haven't had a single breakdown in 2 years.
As an added bonus you should see how soft my hands are
https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome
fill in the forms, they (the shop) will cave in and refund your money. Cheaper than contesting it for a £500 claim. At the moment they don't think you mean it so they are trying to palm you off. When it becomes real and expensive they will take a different view. They have not a leg to stand on.
See this too.
http://whatconsumer.co.uk/how-long-should-it-last/...
They are unlikely to succeed in arguing a £500 domestic appliance can be expected to last 17 months and they know it. They are just figuring you will give up, most people do, so s
tty companies always try it on first. You contract is with the shop, not the manufacturer. You have had no dealings with the manufacturer and need to have no dealings with them. The shop is who you go after, if they choose to go after the manufacturer to recoup their loss that is their problem, not yours.
fill in the forms, they (the shop) will cave in and refund your money. Cheaper than contesting it for a £500 claim. At the moment they don't think you mean it so they are trying to palm you off. When it becomes real and expensive they will take a different view. They have not a leg to stand on.
See this too.
http://whatconsumer.co.uk/how-long-should-it-last/...
They are unlikely to succeed in arguing a £500 domestic appliance can be expected to last 17 months and they know it. They are just figuring you will give up, most people do, so s
tty companies always try it on first. You contract is with the shop, not the manufacturer. You have had no dealings with the manufacturer and need to have no dealings with them. The shop is who you go after, if they choose to go after the manufacturer to recoup their loss that is their problem, not yours.BlueHave said:
TooMany2cvs said:
BlueHave said:
The law on this is somewhat of a grey area
No, not really.Outside of six months from new, it's for you to prove that the problem was an inherent problem that renders the product unfit for purpose. And your contract's with the supplier - have you spoken to them at all, or just the manufacturer?
How much would it cost to buy a door sensor and fit it yourself?
How much would a local indie charge to do it?
Not sure if it is the door sensor it's just my theory which could be wrong as dishwasher aren't my strong point.
Indie would be £100 an hour so not that much different to hotpoint.
Jokes aside google see if people are having the same problem with the same appliance or look for servicing instructions for it and fault find the cause.
fatjon said:
See this too.
http://whatconsumer.co.uk/how-long-should-it-last/...
They are unlikely to succeed in arguing a £500 domestic appliance can be expected to last 17 months and they know it.
That's misleading. It's correct that the appliance should last longer, but there's nothing in the law which says that means it shouldn't need repairing so that it can carry on being used. http://whatconsumer.co.uk/how-long-should-it-last/...
They are unlikely to succeed in arguing a £500 domestic appliance can be expected to last 17 months and they know it.
You're only on solid ground with that term if the appliance can't be repaired - only then can you say it failed to last a reasonable length of time.
A very unscrupulous person would go to a showroom find the same model and mark down a chassis number, then call the manufacturer and give that chassis number saying I've just bought this and its not working. The engineer who comes out wouldn't really care or if he did would just blame the wrong number on "the system".
Obviously it would be the wrong thing to do and you would burn in hell/die of guilt etc but at least you would have your last meal off clean plates
Obviously it would be the wrong thing to do and you would burn in hell/die of guilt etc but at least you would have your last meal off clean plates
G
BlueHave said:
We have a new dishwasher the brand of which I won't mention but lets just call them 'Warm Spot' (I know should have went for Bosch)
:
Not if Bosch washing machines were anything to go by, the thing I had was crap, all three arms on the spider cracked through, now got an old British made Hotpoint machine that's been faultless.:
Dixy said:
That is tosh, everything can be repaired, it just becomes uneconomic to do so. Durable means it does what it should.
'Durable':
....able to withstand wear, pressure, or damage; hard-wearing.
"porcelain enamel is strong and durable"
synonyms: long-lasting, hard-wearing, heavy-duty, tough, resistant, strong, sturdy, stout, sound, substantial, imperishable, indestructible, made to last, well made, strongly made More
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