"Bring back National Service"
Discussion
I have heard this so many times over the years, it resurfaced on FB as a "Britain First" thing, apparently endorsed by Harry Royal Ginger bloke.
I can see the sentiment, but in reality it is b
ks old blokes say in the pub as the answer to cure the youth of all problems.
It will never happen (in peacetime and not sure how much use it would be in modern warfare anyway) and those who advocate it are conveniently above the age to end up in the forces against their will, very few who advocate it actually did it and even if they did, it isnt the 1950s now.
Most 17 year old lads dont want to join the forces, some do, fair play to them, they have my respect but it used to be just lads, now it would have to be, for equality girls as well, the logistics of having several million teenagers kept entertained for 18 months would be a rather expensive option, universities would be wondering what to do, guess they would start a bit later but 19 months between finishing school and starting a degree ?
I can see that some kids would revel in it but more would probably hate/resent it, one of mine was considering the forces but got an apprenticeship with an airline, the other two wouldnt want to, they would hate it, they did D of E so got something from that, 18 months of it would be labouring a point.
I think it could be optional but isnt that just the forces ?
I can see the sentiment, but in reality it is b
ks old blokes say in the pub as the answer to cure the youth of all problems.It will never happen (in peacetime and not sure how much use it would be in modern warfare anyway) and those who advocate it are conveniently above the age to end up in the forces against their will, very few who advocate it actually did it and even if they did, it isnt the 1950s now.
Most 17 year old lads dont want to join the forces, some do, fair play to them, they have my respect but it used to be just lads, now it would have to be, for equality girls as well, the logistics of having several million teenagers kept entertained for 18 months would be a rather expensive option, universities would be wondering what to do, guess they would start a bit later but 19 months between finishing school and starting a degree ?
I can see that some kids would revel in it but more would probably hate/resent it, one of mine was considering the forces but got an apprenticeship with an airline, the other two wouldnt want to, they would hate it, they did D of E so got something from that, 18 months of it would be labouring a point.
I think it could be optional but isnt that just the forces ?
I like the idea of it, make it trade related with bricklayers, plumbers, carpenters, electrians etc. Those looking at a trade that requires university like doctors and dentists they could be sponsored by a branch of the forces. The drill and pt is essential for healthy living, plenty of press about obese kids. The whole old school national service wouldn't work and I wouldn't want someone next to me in combat if they were forced
Quite a few foreign countries have a form of 'National Service' that allows the option of spending time in a non-military organisation instead of one of the armed services.
Funding it would be a nightmare though. Administration and the costs of employing the NS participants, and sufficient permanent employees in supervisory and training roles? All while the government is planning to shut and dispose of huge chunks of the MOD estate, and cutting personnel to the bone to reduce costs. This hypothetical new generation of National Service people would have to be employed by HMG, and that's simply not the Conservatives' way of doing things. So yet more corrupt and expensive white elephant PPP 'initiatives' would be created, with oodles of directorships and advisory roles for former MPs and Civil Servants. A massive gravy train, that, ten years down the line would be getting investigated by the SFO, with expensive public inquiries needed to correct mistakes and "learn lessons".
Nope, it'll never take off. Labour won't do it for obvious reasons (not least their current status as 'Unelectable'), and the Tories won't do it because they just don't "do" nationalised industries. I doubt the modern military want it either. The quality of recruits isn't what it once was, and to be stuck with thousands of fat, lazy, whinging teenagers who can't be trusted with lace-up shoes, yet need to be constantly kept busy and supervised, is not want a shrinking military wants to be doing with it's brightest and best volunteers.
You couldn't even herd them into Guantanamo style camps, stuff them into orange jumpsuits, and set them to work cleaning up every piece of litter, and all the steaming dog turds in the countryside, because there'd be some H&S or human rights issue to put a spanner in the works. Even if they could be deployed in such roles, they'd spend their time with their hands stuffed deep into their pockets, kicking the ground and moaning about not being able to play Pokemon Go ad nauseam. It'd cost a fortune and they'd get the sum total of fk all done. It couldn't ever get off the ground in society as it functions (and is funded) today.
Funding it would be a nightmare though. Administration and the costs of employing the NS participants, and sufficient permanent employees in supervisory and training roles? All while the government is planning to shut and dispose of huge chunks of the MOD estate, and cutting personnel to the bone to reduce costs. This hypothetical new generation of National Service people would have to be employed by HMG, and that's simply not the Conservatives' way of doing things. So yet more corrupt and expensive white elephant PPP 'initiatives' would be created, with oodles of directorships and advisory roles for former MPs and Civil Servants. A massive gravy train, that, ten years down the line would be getting investigated by the SFO, with expensive public inquiries needed to correct mistakes and "learn lessons".
Nope, it'll never take off. Labour won't do it for obvious reasons (not least their current status as 'Unelectable'), and the Tories won't do it because they just don't "do" nationalised industries. I doubt the modern military want it either. The quality of recruits isn't what it once was, and to be stuck with thousands of fat, lazy, whinging teenagers who can't be trusted with lace-up shoes, yet need to be constantly kept busy and supervised, is not want a shrinking military wants to be doing with it's brightest and best volunteers.
You couldn't even herd them into Guantanamo style camps, stuff them into orange jumpsuits, and set them to work cleaning up every piece of litter, and all the steaming dog turds in the countryside, because there'd be some H&S or human rights issue to put a spanner in the works. Even if they could be deployed in such roles, they'd spend their time with their hands stuffed deep into their pockets, kicking the ground and moaning about not being able to play Pokemon Go ad nauseam. It'd cost a fortune and they'd get the sum total of f
k all done. It couldn't ever get off the ground in society as it functions (and is funded) today.I don't know if they still have it now, but when I lived in Spain in the early 90s, they used to have the option of military service or civil service, which was, iirc, 6 months longer.
Those opting for the civil service might work as paramedics, firemen, teaching assistants or all sorts of things. It actually seemed pretty popular from what I remember.
Those opting for the civil service might work as paramedics, firemen, teaching assistants or all sorts of things. It actually seemed pretty popular from what I remember.
I know when I was at uni there was a load of Greek students who were desperately trying to get uk jobs or further study for the few years they needed to avoid their national service, so it's certainly not always popular.
When I was at school / uni we generally thought it'd be a good thing. Though I've never come across anyone who actually did NS in the 50s who had anything good to say about it. My old man declared that "Catterick" was a swear word, never to be spoken in the house
When I was at school / uni we generally thought it'd be a good thing. Though I've never come across anyone who actually did NS in the 50s who had anything good to say about it. My old man declared that "Catterick" was a swear word, never to be spoken in the house
What would be the point?
The Navy and Air Force is made up of lot of trained professional, which takes time, experience and training to do well. There are not a lot of jobs that could be done properly in 6 months or even a couple of years. The Army is a little different but still has loads of professional trades.
Unless you want a career in the forces doing national service just wastes every ones time time and ton of tax payers money.
The Navy and Air Force is made up of lot of trained professional, which takes time, experience and training to do well. There are not a lot of jobs that could be done properly in 6 months or even a couple of years. The Army is a little different but still has loads of professional trades.
Unless you want a career in the forces doing national service just wastes every ones time time and ton of tax payers money.
How about bringing back National Service for those who advocate bringing back National Service? They can spend their time marching, polishing boots and discussing what they read in the Daily Mail. Obviously they would only get toy rifles to play with.
The rest of us will be much happier.
The rest of us will be much happier.
Edited by SrMoreno on Wednesday 16th November 08:41
SrMoreno said:
How about bringing back National Service for those who advocate bringing back National Service? They can spend their time marching, polishing boots and discussing what they read in the Daily Mail. Obviously they would only get toy rifles to play with.
The rest of us will be much happier.
Don't be daft, the only people that advocate it are those that are comfortably old enough not to have to do it. The rest of us will be much happier.
No, no and thrice no.
Apart from a few years of stupidty past the Second World War we've always had a volunteer proffesional Army. Thats what makes us a world leading force.
Forcing people to do something they don't want to do, just to appease a few rose tinted spec wearing fools is beyond crazy.
Apart from a few years of stupidty past the Second World War we've always had a volunteer proffesional Army. Thats what makes us a world leading force.
Forcing people to do something they don't want to do, just to appease a few rose tinted spec wearing fools is beyond crazy.
SrMoreno said:
How about bringing back National Service for those who advocate bringing back National Service? They can spend their time marching, polishing boots and discussing what they read in the Daily Mail. Obviously they would only get toy rifles to play with.
The rest of us will be much happier.
That gets my vote.The rest of us will be much happier.
Edited by SrMoreno on Wednesday 16th November 08:41
Where are all these "kids" that don't know their born? do the people who come up with this crap actually know any teenagers these days?
Some of them, they're pretty clever and switched on, and with the ability to live in a society which accepts their talents, and can foster those, is surely more productive? I'm certain that there ARE a lot of "little sts" who could do with straightening out, but many of the people making these statements are the generation who have raised these little sts...
Having said that, I am certainly in favour of voluntary cadets or DofE type organisations that children/teens can join in on, I spent a few years in the cadets at school and learnt several things I wouldn't have done outside that, and got some great experiences, but I wouldn't be in favour of that being mandatory at all.
Remember the old saying - one volunteer is worth 10 pressed men.
Some of them, they're pretty clever and switched on, and with the ability to live in a society which accepts their talents, and can foster those, is surely more productive? I'm certain that there ARE a lot of "little s
ts" who could do with straightening out, but many of the people making these statements are the generation who have raised these little sts...Having said that, I am certainly in favour of voluntary cadets or DofE type organisations that children/teens can join in on, I spent a few years in the cadets at school and learnt several things I wouldn't have done outside that, and got some great experiences, but I wouldn't be in favour of that being mandatory at all.
Remember the old saying - one volunteer is worth 10 pressed men.
The Mad Monk said:
alock said:
Jim Hacker said:
The army can give them a comprehensive education to make up for their comprehensive education.
https://youtu.be/SHP_LOtx6Ik?t=704
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