Awarded judgement, can I serve a statutory demand ?
Discussion
Mate
I've found myself mired in litigation. I've won a case at the County Court and been awarded the full claim of £3.2k, from the defendant to pay within 28 days. The defendant is a slippery, but sizeable and well established ltd company. It was their slipperyness and material falsehoods in court that helped greatly with their undoing. Whilst I'm aware they they could pull the assets out and avoid paying, I don't think they will do that, but I'm convinced will mess about paying.
Can I serve a Statutory Demand now, on say day nine, to be due on say day 30 ? If they haven't paid as directed by the Court by day 28, I can start winding up proceedings on day 30, rather than wait to 28+21 days ? Clearly that would all be at my cost, and may not even be necessary, etc.
I've found myself mired in litigation. I've won a case at the County Court and been awarded the full claim of £3.2k, from the defendant to pay within 28 days. The defendant is a slippery, but sizeable and well established ltd company. It was their slipperyness and material falsehoods in court that helped greatly with their undoing. Whilst I'm aware they they could pull the assets out and avoid paying, I don't think they will do that, but I'm convinced will mess about paying.
Can I serve a Statutory Demand now, on say day nine, to be due on say day 30 ? If they haven't paid as directed by the Court by day 28, I can start winding up proceedings on day 30, rather than wait to 28+21 days ? Clearly that would all be at my cost, and may not even be necessary, etc.
catfood12 said:
Mate
I've found myself mired in litigation. I've won a case at the County Court and been awarded the full claim of £3.2k, from the defendant to pay within 28 days. The defendant is a slippery, but sizeable and well established ltd company. It was their slipperyness and material falsehoods in court that helped greatly with their undoing. Whilst I'm aware they they could pull the assets out and avoid paying, I don't think they will do that, but I'm convinced will mess about paying.
Can I serve a Statutory Demand now, on say day nine, to be due on say day 30 ? If they haven't paid as directed by the Court by day 28, I can start winding up proceedings on day 30, rather than wait to 28+21 days ? Clearly that would all be at my cost, and may not even be necessary, etc.
You don't need to go through a statutory demand if the debt is owed by a company. You can go straight to a winding up petition. Stat demands are used against individuals. I've found myself mired in litigation. I've won a case at the County Court and been awarded the full claim of £3.2k, from the defendant to pay within 28 days. The defendant is a slippery, but sizeable and well established ltd company. It was their slipperyness and material falsehoods in court that helped greatly with their undoing. Whilst I'm aware they they could pull the assets out and avoid paying, I don't think they will do that, but I'm convinced will mess about paying.
Can I serve a Statutory Demand now, on say day nine, to be due on say day 30 ? If they haven't paid as directed by the Court by day 28, I can start winding up proceedings on day 30, rather than wait to 28+21 days ? Clearly that would all be at my cost, and may not even be necessary, etc.
How come they have 28 days to pay the judgment? Did they ask for time to pay?
catfood12 said:
Mate
Whilst I'm aware they they could pull the assets out and avoid paying, I don't think they will do that, but I'm convinced will mess about paying.
After the 30 days, if they've not paid, the CCJ registered against them becomes public record for 6 years, and will show us unpaid unless they do. This will seriously hamper them getting credit.Whilst I'm aware they they could pull the assets out and avoid paying, I don't think they will do that, but I'm convinced will mess about paying.
IMHO don't do anything yet. That should be impetus enough. Going to wind up a company and down that route means you need to follow a particular legal process, and there are pitfalls so do take advice before considering that.
What I would recommend as an alternative though is if they don't pay, contacting The Sherriff's Office, or another similar firm. They arrange the High Court bailiff process. You pay a fee of about £80 and they get the High Court writ for you, and then instruct bailiffs to act on your behalf.
The bailiffs work on commission, and that commission ends up coming from the debtor. So, everyone is motivated for the system to work.
Greg66 said:
You don't need to go through a statutory demand if the debt is owed by a company. You can go straight to a winding up petition. Stat demands are used against individuals.
How come they have 28 days to pay the judgment? Did they ask for time to pay?
Yes they did ask for time to pay. I didn't think to object to this at the time. I was too busy sat there feeling smug.How come they have 28 days to pay the judgment? Did they ask for time to pay?
Thanks for the information about a Winding up petition, which is the desired effect of what I was thinking.
JustinP1 said:
After the 30 days, if they've not paid, the CCJ registered against them becomes public record for 6 years, and will show us unpaid unless they do. This will seriously hamper them getting credit.
IMHO don't do anything yet. That should be impetus enough. Going to wind up a company and down that route means you need to follow a particular legal process, and there are pitfalls so do take advice before considering that.
What I would recommend as an alternative though is if they don't pay, contacting The Sherriff's Office, or another similar firm. They arrange the High Court bailiff process. You pay a fee of about £80 and they get the High Court writ for you, and then instruct bailiffs to act on your behalf.
The bailiffs work on commission, and that commission ends up coming from the debtor. So, everyone is motivated for the system to work.
Great info. I'd never looked into how the judgement gets registered against them. Boom, day 28 (if they haven't paid) I'll register the judgement, then get DCBL on the case, and keep up to date on Channel 5. That has to be the best way of ensuring payment.IMHO don't do anything yet. That should be impetus enough. Going to wind up a company and down that route means you need to follow a particular legal process, and there are pitfalls so do take advice before considering that.
What I would recommend as an alternative though is if they don't pay, contacting The Sherriff's Office, or another similar firm. They arrange the High Court bailiff process. You pay a fee of about £80 and they get the High Court writ for you, and then instruct bailiffs to act on your behalf.
The bailiffs work on commission, and that commission ends up coming from the debtor. So, everyone is motivated for the system to work.
Greg66 said:
You don't need to go through a statutory demand if the debt is owed by a company. You can go straight to a winding up petition. Stat demands are used against individuals.
True - but you do still have to prove insolvency when you present the petition, and the easiest way to do that is to show a failure to pay following service of a statutory demand. If you don't serve one, you'll have to adduce evidence of insolvency through some other means.
Lurking Lawyer said:
True - but you do still have to prove insolvency when you present the petition, and the easiest way to do that is to show a failure to pay following service of a statutory demand.
If you don't serve one, you'll have to adduce evidence of insolvency through some other means.
Dont you also become liable for any costs they might incur due to the winding up petition if you get even the slightest detail incorrect? If you don't serve one, you'll have to adduce evidence of insolvency through some other means.
Lurking Lawyer said:
Greg66 said:
You don't need to go through a statutory demand if the debt is owed by a company. You can go straight to a winding up petition. Stat demands are used against individuals.
True - but you do still have to prove insolvency when you present the petition, and the easiest way to do that is to show a failure to pay following service of a statutory demand. If you don't serve one, you'll have to adduce evidence of insolvency through some other means.
nikaiyo2 said:
Dont you also become liable for any costs they might incur due to the winding up petition if you get even the slightest detail incorrect?
No. You become liable for costs if you present a petition which is based on a debt that you ought to have known was genuinely disputed.
That isn't a problem with a debt that is based on a court order.
I agree with JustinP1. High Court enforcement is far more effective than a County Court bailiff. A Writ of Control will be a far greater incentive for the company to pay up. The directors/secretary won't want a HCEO camped in their office. They don't mess about as they get paid by results.
A Statutory Demand is a more draconian measure which is normally the prelude to a Winding Up petition. It has to be in the prescribed form and you need a working understanding of the Insolvency Rules. Also it must be served in the required manner at the company's registered office. I would only go down that route as a last resort.
A Statutory Demand is a more draconian measure which is normally the prelude to a Winding Up petition. It has to be in the prescribed form and you need a working understanding of the Insolvency Rules. Also it must be served in the required manner at the company's registered office. I would only go down that route as a last resort.
Well, as expected, no money from the Defendant. No application to set aside. Judgement should now registered against the Claimant.
I'm about to stock up on frozen sausages and I'll be on the phone to DCBL ! Might see the little s
ts on the TV on the wrong end of that smug fat knacker O'Shaughnessey !
All just in time to start a new PE thread.....
I'm about to stock up on frozen sausages and I'll be on the phone to DCBL ! Might see the little s
ts on the TV on the wrong end of that smug fat knacker O'Shaughnessey !All just in time to start a new PE thread.....
JustinP1 said:
What I would recommend as an alternative though is if they don't pay, contacting The Sherriff's Office, or another similar firm. They arrange the High Court bailiff process. You pay a fee of about £80 and they get the High Court writ for you, and then instruct bailiffs to act on your behalf.
The bailiffs work on commission, and that commission ends up coming from the debtor. So, everyone is motivated for the system to work.
I have done this and they were very effective, very helpful too. No messing about. I'd highly recommend them as a way of getting your money. The bailiffs work on commission, and that commission ends up coming from the debtor. So, everyone is motivated for the system to work.
I remember two cases in particular from the BBC's 'The Sheriffs Are Coming'. The second one involving a well established company is particularly apposite for the OP. 
Both involved the bald headed guy who looked like a night club bouncer and his sidekick (Lawrence and Kev).
Series 2: a visit to an airport where they 'seize' an aircraft: by removing all the documentation to prevent it from taking off and fleeing outside the Court's jurisdiction.
If it had the CAA would be all over the operator's a**e.
Series 4: to the HQ of a certain well known credit card issuer for a £35k judgement. The corporate b/s and stalling tactics didn't impress our shaven headed hero in the slightest. He just told the bewitched and bothered drones who tried to make him go away empty handed that he wasn't leaving without immediate settlement. Eventually somebody got the message that the clock was ticking and the debt increasing (by the cost of the HCEO's time) and an exec with sufficient clout was dug out of the broom cupboard he was hiding in. Job jobbed.
Both involved the bald headed guy who looked like a night club bouncer and his sidekick (Lawrence and Kev).
Series 2: a visit to an airport where they 'seize' an aircraft: by removing all the documentation to prevent it from taking off and fleeing outside the Court's jurisdiction.
If it had the CAA would be all over the operator's a**e.
Series 4: to the HQ of a certain well known credit card issuer for a £35k judgement. The corporate b/s and stalling tactics didn't impress our shaven headed hero in the slightest. He just told the bewitched and bothered drones who tried to make him go away empty handed that he wasn't leaving without immediate settlement. Eventually somebody got the message that the clock was ticking and the debt increasing (by the cost of the HCEO's time) and an exec with sufficient clout was dug out of the broom cupboard he was hiding in. Job jobbed.
Mates, we all love a thread conclusion. I engaged the boys at DCBL, and took some of KungFuPanda's advice. Money now in the bank !
I engaged DCBL, very slick operation, I had judgement, ID, nothing in question, they love that. I wrote to the Defendant and said that as they hadn't paid, I'd passed to the High Court, and he should deal with them from now on. I said (but may have made it up) that their bailiffs had asked if I had any objection to being on television in connection with the case, and that I didn't, and that when they visited, it would all most likely be on a TV documentary series. Whether that did anything or not I don't know, but they recovered the money due from the judgement with seeming ease.
It also brought home that when the High Court bailiffs are involved, it really is only as a last resort, as the Defendant has ignored or failed to appeal a previous County or other Court judgement.
I engaged DCBL, very slick operation, I had judgement, ID, nothing in question, they love that. I wrote to the Defendant and said that as they hadn't paid, I'd passed to the High Court, and he should deal with them from now on. I said (but may have made it up) that their bailiffs had asked if I had any objection to being on television in connection with the case, and that I didn't, and that when they visited, it would all most likely be on a TV documentary series. Whether that did anything or not I don't know, but they recovered the money due from the judgement with seeming ease.
It also brought home that when the High Court bailiffs are involved, it really is only as a last resort, as the Defendant has ignored or failed to appeal a previous County or other Court judgement.
Durzel said:
Question from the uninitiated.. when you involve bailiffs do you actually get your £3,200 back, or is that less fees or whatever?
You get your £3200 back but have to pay £80 up front for the HCEOs to act. The HCEO fees (which aren't insignificant) are taken from the debtor. I.e. in this case the debtor may have been issued with a bill nearer to £4k of which the £3200 comes back to the OP.Grunt Futtock said:
You get your £3200 back but have to pay £80 up front for the HCEOs to act. The HCEO fees (which aren't insignificant) are taken from the debtor. I.e. in this case the debtor may have been issued with a bill nearer to £4k of which the £3200 comes back to the OP.
Exactly this. But you pony up £66, then get it back with the £3216 ish.Good result OP and good to read that you got your money back.
I've been to civil claims twice, first time against a limited company, the didn't even show up in court, ended up with bailiffs going in and the cheque appeared in our hands shortly afterwards,
Second case was just last year against a self employed trader for negligence in transporting goods. He turned up, judgement was found against him, ordered him to pay full amount of damages and costs but he didn't pay.
Went to High Court Sheriffs but they weren't able to get a penny off him. He kept pleading poverty, lived in rented accommodation and stated all his chattels belonged to his adult son flatmate. He closed his business down and went on the sick with a bad back.
Sheriffs told me that the law doesn't really work in these circumstances ( self employed, not an owner occupier, no other employment).
Should still have debtors prisons.....
I've been to civil claims twice, first time against a limited company, the didn't even show up in court, ended up with bailiffs going in and the cheque appeared in our hands shortly afterwards,
Second case was just last year against a self employed trader for negligence in transporting goods. He turned up, judgement was found against him, ordered him to pay full amount of damages and costs but he didn't pay.
Went to High Court Sheriffs but they weren't able to get a penny off him. He kept pleading poverty, lived in rented accommodation and stated all his chattels belonged to his adult son flatmate. He closed his business down and went on the sick with a bad back.
Sheriffs told me that the law doesn't really work in these circumstances ( self employed, not an owner occupier, no other employment).
Should still have debtors prisons.....
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