Employment agencies..another scam?

[Deltafox]

Ok the scenario is this.
Ive sent out around 30 or so CV's to various employers in my local and surrounding areas.
Upon searching the jobcentre website i find a suitable looking vacancy and decide to phone it up.
Upon doing so im told that its via an agency.
Nothing wrong with that you say, well no, not specifically, but unless i contact the agency and set up an interview with them, ill not find out whether the job advertised is possibly for one of the employers ive already sent a CV off to!
Seems that most of them are nowadays.
Basically im faced with the prospect of going to a large number of interviews for companies that have already rejected my CV/application!
I phoned one of the agencies twice last week speaking to the same guy who took my name and number, being told that he'd call me back. Guess what? He didnt and theyve got no record of me phoning for the job!

Is this some kind of scam that the Employment Department and these agencies are involved in?
The reason i ask that is that the vacancies are advertised via the jobcentre/jokecentre so are the agencies paying the jobcentre?
I think they must be.

Yours, seriously pissed off.

[rude girl]

On the other hand, the companies might have rejected your CV because it didn't happen to get to the person who has the vacancy, or because of some random demographic that you don't happen to fall in to.

The agencies could look at you and say to the employers 'yes I know he doesn't have xxx qualification, but he's really good and I think you should look at him anyway'.

Might not necessarily be a bad thing for you. All you need is for one person to like you and fight your corner, and you're in.

Good luck

[dcb]

Deltafox said:

but unless i contact the agency and set up an interview with them, ill not find out whether the job advertised is possibly for one of the employers ive already sent a CV off to!

Ask the agency who the job is with. Most sensible agencies will want to avoid duplication, and so will tell you who it is with.

If they won't, then they are just fishing for CVs.

Deltafox said:

I phoned one of the agencies twice last week speaking to the same guy who took my name and number, being told that he'd call me back. Guess what? He didnt and theyve got no record of me phoning for the job!

This is the modern world.

Employment agencies are like any other middle men - mostly full of cheap talk and little action. Good agencies are like rocking horse droppings.

My experience over the last fifteen years of dealing with employment agencies is that they are down there with used car salesmen and estate agents.

You have been warned.

[Thelemming]

From my experience (unless this has changed recently) placing job adverts with the jobcentre is free. They want as many job ads as possible.

So I cant see a financial incentive for them to place ads for jobs that dont exist.

Having said that, it's not unknown for agencies to place ads for jobs that dont exist simply for CV harvesting.

[TSS]

Deltafox don’t worry too much, this happened recently to somebody I know:

She applied directly to a company for a Sales Administrator vacancy via a newspaper advert in January. All she got from the employer was a rejection letter.

Two weeks ago she applied for a similar sounding vacancy via an agency. It turned out to be the same vacancy with the same company, which they hadn’t managed to fill via their advert.

The agency used their contacts at the company to push to get her an interview. She starts work on 4th April.

[soir]

I know some agencies do advertise jobs which aren't there just to gain more candidates - this is highly illegal and unethical. However, very risking doing this at the jobcentre so i would assume the positions are active.

I can understand the agency not wanting to tell you who the client is before interviewing you directly, this is beacuse 1) lot's of sharkey recruiters out there who ring up competitors and try & find out what companies/jobs they are working on, so they can get the job too. 2) some candidates, once they know who the company is, will go direct to the company (in the hope cv is considered more due to no agy fee).
Therefore best way around this (unless you go and see them face to face) is to tell them which companies you have applied to so they can say if that particular role is with one of them (avoid telling them which role you applied for direct with the company, as they will try & work on it too and this will create more competition for you).

I always say that usually a CV is revied more so by a company rather from an agency (to avoid a fee) However, doing this, your cv may go to the wrong person within the business (and the agency would deal with the specific line manager. For an actual job - go via agency (they can sell you more) sending you CV on spec - do this yourself.

Good luck with the hunt - don't tarnish all recruiters with the same brush. They ALL want to get you a job (it's how they make money) but I'm afraid like all businesses, you get some sharks who ruin it for the rest of us!

Best of luck

[skinny]

they don't generally tell you who the job is with. they also don't acknowledge receipt of your cv's or result of applications. a v. frustrating process. luckily for me (after about a year) i'm out of their grubby hands

[tiga84]

dcb said:

Deltafox said: but unless i contact the agency and set up an interview with them, ill not find out whether the job advertised is possibly for one of the employers ive already sent a CV off to! Ask the agency who the job is with. Most sensible agencies will want to avoid duplication, and so will tell you who it is with. If they won't, then they are just fishing for CVs. Deltafox said: I phoned one of the agencies twice last week speaking to the same guy who took my name and number, being told that he'd call me back. Guess what? He didnt and theyve got no record of me phoning for the job! This is the modern world. Employment agencies are like any other middle men - mostly full of cheap talk and little action. Good agencies are like rocking horse droppings. My experience over the last fifteen years of dealing with employment agencies is that they are down there with used car salesmen and estate agents. You have been warned.

I really must protest!!!

Without agencies, you wouldn't get any work would you? If it was all so easy and we're down there with estate agents, why have used them for 15 yrs? Surely you have enough contacts and experience (especially with your skillset) to be able to source your own work?
We're not all cowboys, don't tar us with the same brush please!!

[v8thunder]

When I looked for part time work I found the Jobcentre to be the least helpful and the agencies like Manpower, Temps and TMS to be the most useful.

I think part of the problem is that the Jobcentre have too much to deal with - people signing on, people getting sent to interviews, sorting out benefits etc, whereas the other agencies just interview, learn what you're about and will find you something suitable as soon as it comes in. I found Manpower to be the best at this and they're quite friendly with you too.

There's a slim chance there could be a 'scam' concerning the Jobcentre, but I doubt it. I don't think it's the ideal place to look for jobs though, despite its name.

[soir]

Skinny - just don;t use that agency or particular consultant ever again. Don't assume all recruiters are like this.

Majority of my candidates register through recommendations. Most of the time, they have had a bad experience with another recruiter (not calling them back, no feedback etc..)

I always return calls, give as much feedback as possible for I truly believe that a lot of these people will come back to me as clients..

Like employees within all companies, some good, some great, some crap, some really crap!

[havoc]

tiga84 said:

I really must protest!!! Without agencies, you wouldn't get any work would you? If it was all so easy and we're down there with estate agents, why have used them for 15 yrs? Surely you have enough contacts and experience (especially with your skillset) to be able to source your own work? We're not all cowboys, don't tar us with the same brush please!!

What rubbish.

Agencies are a medium for advertising jobs / finding candidates, just the same as job websites, newspapers, spec. press, jobcentre, open days...

If agencies didn't exist, the employers would find another means to recruit.

As to why candidates use them...simply because MOST employers only use agencies as it's "easiest" (i.e. they pay through the nose but don't have to employ as many people to draft adverts, to filter CVs...).

The fact that "consultants" themselves often just want commission, and don't care about the long-term satisfaction of the employer, LET ALONE the candidate, means that jobs are often mis-sold, and people who join through an agency often don't remain with the company as long as direct applicants...and ooh look, that vacancy exists again, and an agency handles it - it's a self-perpetuating game!!!

Why? Because being a recruitment consultant is a high-pressure sales job and they often move around between firms, so don't need to build up client relationships like an ordinary salesman...just like Estate Agents, you don't tend to get repeat customers whatever sort of service you give.

I would love not to use an agency, as I think they're theiving, lying, deceitful scum. But the fact of the matter is most big companies aren't set-up to handle spec applications, and the CV often fails to hit the right person, as recruitment has been decentralised...consequently the only way to be seen by these companies is to go through the agency they're using.

It's great when you become indispensable for doing nothing, isn't it?!?

[Melv]

I got a job thru, but not because of an agency once.

Went thru the initial interviews, everything being done thru the agency, agency bod goes home early on a Friday, company want me, eventually contact me direct, interview in a local hotel, got job. Agency didn't get paid....

The laugh was they did a job profile on me. Baring in mind I've hardly worked full time in an office all my life (Architect/surveyor), the profile suggested I'd be good as a building agency interviewer!!! They must have been having a laugh....

And between jobs I'd always go to a driving agency for a filler for a week -they never failed me. Best one was working for a pplant hire company and getting to play with all the toys!! (This was before the requirements to be certificated on a vehicle -then it was case of this is how it starts, this is what it does, off you go!!)

>> Edited by Melv on Thursday 17th March 11:25

[tiga84]

havoc said:

tiga84 said: I really must protest!!! Without agencies, you wouldn't get any work would you? If it was all so easy and we're down there with estate agents, why have used them for 15 yrs? Surely you have enough contacts and experience (especially with your skillset) to be able to source your own work? We're not all cowboys, don't tar us with the same brush please!! What rubbish. Agencies are a medium for advertising jobs / finding candidates, just the same as job websites, newspapers, spec. press, jobcentre, open days... If agencies didn't exist, the employers would find another means to recruit. As to why candidates use them...simply because MOST employers only use agencies as it's "easiest" (i.e. they pay through the nose but don't have to employ as many people to draft adverts, to filter CVs...). The fact that "consultants" themselves often just want commission, and don't care about the long-term satisfaction of the employer, LET ALONE the candidate, means that jobs are often mis-sold, and people who join through an agency often don't remain with the company as long as direct applicants...and ooh look, that vacancy exists again, and an agency handles it - it's a self-perpetuating game!!! Why? Because being a recruitment consultant is a high-pressure sales job and they often move around between firms, so don't need to build up client relationships like an ordinary salesman...just like Estate Agents, you don't tend to get repeat customers whatever sort of service you give. I would love not to use an agency, as I think they're theiving, lying, deceitful scum. But the fact of the matter is most big companies aren't set-up to handle spec applications, and the CV often fails to hit the right person, as recruitment has been decentralised...consequently the only way to be seen by these companies is to go through the agency they're using. It's great when you become indispensable for doing nothing, isn't it?!?

Not going to enter into bitter and twisted dialogue, your views are yours and thats fine. Hey its my job, I've done it for 7 years, I'm not a liar, I've got relationships with fairly major clients that I've had since I started and calling us scum I think is a bit unfair, we've all got a job to do. You've obviously had bad experiences with agencies, and yes, 90% are tossers who only care about money and shite BMW convertibles but there is the exception. I think you've been a bit harsh with your comments to be honest, almost bordering on rude, but as I said those are your views and your entitled to them.

[greg_D]

havoc said:

tiga84 said: I really must protest!!! Without agencies, you wouldn't get any work would you? If it was all so easy and we're down there with estate agents, why have used them for 15 yrs? Surely you have enough contacts and experience (especially with your skillset) to be able to source your own work? We're not all cowboys, don't tar us with the same brush please!! What rubbish. Agencies are a medium for advertising jobs / finding candidates, just the same as job websites, newspapers, spec. press, jobcentre, open days... If agencies didn't exist, the employers would find another means to recruit. As to why candidates use them...simply because MOST employers only use agencies as it's "easiest" (i.e. they pay through the nose but don't have to employ as many people to draft adverts, to filter CVs...). The fact that "consultants" themselves often just want commission, and don't care about the long-term satisfaction of the employer, LET ALONE the candidate, means that jobs are often mis-sold, and people who join through an agency often don't remain with the company as long as direct applicants...and ooh look, that vacancy exists again, and an agency handles it - it's a self-perpetuating game!!! Why? Because being a recruitment consultant is a high-pressure sales job and they often move around between firms, so don't need to build up client relationships like an ordinary salesman...just like Estate Agents, you don't tend to get repeat customers whatever sort of service you give. I would love not to use an agency, as I think they're theiving, lying, deceitful scum. But the fact of the matter is most big companies aren't set-up to handle spec applications, and the CV often fails to hit the right person, as recruitment has been decentralised...consequently the only way to be seen by these companies is to go through the agency they're using. It's great when you become indispensable for doing nothing, isn't it?!?

Now hang about a minute Havoc, just because you are struggling to find work, don't blame the consultants!!! You may want to look a little closer to home before commenting on the consultants performance...........

and to suggest that relationship building is not important in RC then may i suggest that you are talking absolute bollox, in order to get any idea of what sort of candidate might be good for a company, you really need to be in bed with them to see how they tick, remember being on PSL's (preferred supplier lists) is crucial to the long term stability of any good agency. There are always shyster's out there who are just lookng for a quick buck, but they come and go because they have no base in the marketplace.

Have a good look at your CV from an outsiders point of view, the answers to your current predicament are undoubtedly to be found there and not at the door of RC's.

Greg

[obiwonkeyblokey]

I have to agree with both of the above posts. Havoc, you seem to have had some bad experiences which have tarnished your view. We are not all like that and if you take that attitude with all agencies that you deal with then no wonder you havent had a good experience.

In my experience, there are as many pain in the ass clients and candidates out there as there are agencies.

Deal with someone you rely on, show them some respect and give them the time of day. you never know you might be surprised at the results.

( Hiding now as the BMW convertible comment was too close for comfort!!)

[jacko lah]

Thelemming said:

Having said that, it's not unknown for agencies to place ads for jobs that dont exist simply for CV harvesting.

And if they find a large number of applicants from the same company they know that sooner or later that company will be loosing people, so they can start badgering them for work.

I've got an employment agengy trying to get me an interview for a job in a company that I was 'sacked' from (I resigned). At a salary £15 k more than I was on. I've been open with them and they are still trying. Even If I got the job there is no way on earth even if all the managers had been sacked and the HR dept was new that I'd ever go back. That fact seem not to deter the recruitment consultant. (he seems like a nice guy)

[havoc]

greg_D said:

Now hang about a minute Havoc, just because you are struggling to find work, don't blame the consultants!!! You may want to look a little closer to home before commenting on the consultants performance...........

Erm...I don't think you know me at all...my CV is impeccable, my interview manner is very good (over last 4 years, most interviews have either gone to 2nd or have offered!) and I'm lucky enough to have some very in-demand skills...I'm just being very picky about my next role because I can be...and the agencies are NOT listening to me (well, 1 is), they're trying to sell me sub-standard jobs by lying to me about them, then when i go for an interview it's soon obvious we're wasting both my time and the employers - 3x with one agency, 2x with another, where the employer describes the job very differently to the consultant. Is that good business practice?!?

greg_D said:

Have a good look at your CV from an outsiders point of view, the answers to your current predicament are undoubtedly to be found there and not at the door of RC's.

Oh - and my fiancee is an ex-RC (She agrees with every comment I've made), and currently works in recruitment...so I've had professional assistance in my CV ...as above, Imy CVis not the problem, lying (and I have evidence to back this up) RC's are the problem.

"undoubtedly my CV"

Maybe I have been harsh - when I was in practice I used an independent who worked on his own, but had excellent contacts throughout the industry, and he was very good, very honest, very professional...but he only did practice...so I've had to go to the "known" agencies now, as (as I said above) the big companies only use them...and I think the problem lies there - if it's your business, you care. If it's a paypacket and a big bonus for every "sale", you just want to make the sales.

Sorry to go on, but it's a major stress of mine at the moment - your network only goes so far, so you need to hunt through other media...and "advertising" has pretty much dried up now for my profession and my level, so agencies are the only other game in town.

[obiwonkeyblokey]

So you agree then that we're not all cowboys!?

Good luck with the job search. I can recomend a couple fo personal contacts in the South West if it helps. Friends of mine with years of experience in your sector.

Regards

Owen

>> Edited by obiwonkeyblokey on Thursday 17th March 13:08

[hughesie2]

dcb said:

Ask the agency who the job is with. Most sensible agencies will want to avoid duplication, and so will tell you who it is with. If they won't, then they are just fishing for CVs.

Actually thats not entirely True, EAA regulations stipulate that agencies only have to reveal the clients name if they are Submitting your CV/Name towards the position.

[edc]

If employers can recruit directly and cost effectively they will.

Some employers only recruit for roles through agencies, and some will have roles which are managed by agencies.

As a job hunter, if you know the available job you want and with which company then you can go for it, but on some such occasions you may well be referred back to the agency or 'handling consultant'.

Don't kid yourself that all the same jobs are available to anybody.