Office being moved
Discussion
A friend works for the council in a professional position, has been there for 5+ years. They have just found out that their office is being moved in a few months.
Their job requires a car - this is part of their contract. They spend about half of their work day driving between council locations and the other half at their office.
The new office is only a few miles away from the old one but has no parking (except a few spaces for top council management - obviously!) and there's none within a couple of miles.
They have been told that they must make their own way to the office (public transport I suppose) and will then be given a pool car for their daily duties.
They live in the countryside... It's a 20 minute walk to the nearest bus stop, then 2 busses and a train to reach the new office. That would take about 2 hours each way... Compared to a 20 minute drive.
Not to mention they specifically bought a car suitable for the job (lots of mileage on tricky country roads) - new/safe/comfortable/big enough - and the pool car is a Citroen C1. They won't even be able to fit all of the tools required for their job in the boot, not that they'll be able to carry them there on the bus in the first place.
Obviously they're not happy about the situation.
Do they have any rights to be allowed to continue commuting and using their own car as they have been for 5 years? Or can the new conditions be imposed even if it means they'll have to leave the job?
Their job requires a car - this is part of their contract. They spend about half of their work day driving between council locations and the other half at their office.
The new office is only a few miles away from the old one but has no parking (except a few spaces for top council management - obviously!) and there's none within a couple of miles.
They have been told that they must make their own way to the office (public transport I suppose) and will then be given a pool car for their daily duties.
They live in the countryside... It's a 20 minute walk to the nearest bus stop, then 2 busses and a train to reach the new office. That would take about 2 hours each way... Compared to a 20 minute drive.
Not to mention they specifically bought a car suitable for the job (lots of mileage on tricky country roads) - new/safe/comfortable/big enough - and the pool car is a Citroen C1. They won't even be able to fit all of the tools required for their job in the boot, not that they'll be able to carry them there on the bus in the first place.
Obviously they're not happy about the situation.
Do they have any rights to be allowed to continue commuting and using their own car as they have been for 5 years? Or can the new conditions be imposed even if it means they'll have to leave the job?
It doesn't say anything about parking being provided. It just says that they will require a car and driving license for their job.
They carry sensitive paperwork & expensive tools, so it also says they must keep them securely hidden in the boot of their car when they're out of the office... Not easy when they won't even fit in the boot of the pool car.
They carry sensitive paperwork & expensive tools, so it also says they must keep them securely hidden in the boot of their car when they're out of the office... Not easy when they won't even fit in the boot of the pool car.
If the office is being relocated less than 25 miles away, then they have no statutory right to trigger redundancy.
In relation to the parking, annoying though it is and sounds horrifically inefficient, there isn't much to be done.
I would suggest an adult conversation with the line manager both about the impracticability of the pool car, and perhaps a change to working practices. Eg all site visits in the morning, then into the office later in the day ?
Not an easy one, on the other hand some low volume protest -- eg I went to the job, but hadn't got the tools with me as they don't fit in the pool car could work wonders... EG they created the situation, now they have to live with the consequences
anonyrat39 said:
I do, but it's not me if that's what you mean?
Not really, no. I just tend to find the 'my friend' threads, with loads of specific information always look odd. If my friend asked me for advice, thinking I could help (and if he gave me all that detail, he'd be assuming I could), and I just went and asked the internet, I think he'd be rightly annoyed.
ETA: Having said which, my comments are neither constructive nor necessary. Apologies.
Edited by Doofus on Tuesday 22 November 11:03
C1's (first gen ones at least) have have a pretty good load area when you drop the rear seats down, better than a lot of estates with the seats up. You might be surprised how much you can fit in one. But this may actually open up an avenue to work down instead of closing one off.
If the rear seats are need to be dropped to fit the kit in, then the driver has no protection from heavy stuff braining them in the event of a crash and the vehicle not safe or fit for purpose.
A health and safety for the council issue may gain more traction than an employee complaining about being inconvenienced - the issue of having bought a car for the purpose and having a worse commute may be seen as the employee's problems not the employers, and tools could presumably be kept at the office removing the problem of bringing them in from home. Of course the council may just give them a different, more suitable pool vehicle but it might be worth a shot.
Edit: This may be useful:
http://www.fta.co.uk/export/sites/fta/_galleries/d...
If the rear seats are need to be dropped to fit the kit in, then the driver has no protection from heavy stuff braining them in the event of a crash and the vehicle not safe or fit for purpose.
A health and safety for the council issue may gain more traction than an employee complaining about being inconvenienced - the issue of having bought a car for the purpose and having a worse commute may be seen as the employee's problems not the employers, and tools could presumably be kept at the office removing the problem of bringing them in from home. Of course the council may just give them a different, more suitable pool vehicle but it might be worth a shot.
Edit: This may be useful:
http://www.fta.co.uk/export/sites/fta/_galleries/d...
Edited by clunkbox on Tuesday 22 November 11:45
Gargamel said:
I went to the job, but hadn't got the tools with me as they don't fit in the pool car could work wonders... EG they created the situation, now they have to live with the consequences
Notwithstanding the OP's friend's situ, which does sound difficult, I do detest people taking approaches like the above. I know someone who has sat by and watched big projects fail, or at least stumble significantly, where for example he knew x days beforehand that some required equipment hadn't been provisioned for a specific task, because someone else whose responsibility it was had omitted to order it, but rather than point out to that person in advance that they need to place that order, he'd turn up on the day and sit on his hands chuckling at their f***-up and resolutely sticking to the "well it wasn't my job to order it" line.Doesn't do anyone any favours and isn't likely to garner any sympathy from the powers that be.
anonyrat39 said:
A friend works for the council in a professional position, has been there for 5+ years. They have just found out that their office is being moved in a few months.
Their job requires a car - this is part of their contract. They spend about half of their work day driving between council locations and the other half at their office.
The new office is only a few miles away from the old one but has no parking (except a few spaces for top council management - obviously!) and there's none within a couple of miles.
They have been told that they must make their own way to the office (public transport I suppose) and will then be given a pool car for their daily duties.
They live in the countryside... It's a 20 minute walk to the nearest bus stop, then 2 busses and a train to reach the new office. That would take about 2 hours each way... Compared to a 20 minute drive.
Not to mention they specifically bought a car suitable for the job (lots of mileage on tricky country roads) - new/safe/comfortable/big enough - and the pool car is a Citroen C1. They won't even be able to fit all of the tools required for their job in the boot, not that they'll be able to carry them there on the bus in the first place.
Obviously they're not happy about the situation.
Do they have any rights to be allowed to continue commuting and using their own car as they have been for 5 years? Or can the new conditions be imposed even if it means they'll have to leave the job?
Is there a reason why he can't leave the tools at work? Their job requires a car - this is part of their contract. They spend about half of their work day driving between council locations and the other half at their office.
The new office is only a few miles away from the old one but has no parking (except a few spaces for top council management - obviously!) and there's none within a couple of miles.
They have been told that they must make their own way to the office (public transport I suppose) and will then be given a pool car for their daily duties.
They live in the countryside... It's a 20 minute walk to the nearest bus stop, then 2 busses and a train to reach the new office. That would take about 2 hours each way... Compared to a 20 minute drive.
Not to mention they specifically bought a car suitable for the job (lots of mileage on tricky country roads) - new/safe/comfortable/big enough - and the pool car is a Citroen C1. They won't even be able to fit all of the tools required for their job in the boot, not that they'll be able to carry them there on the bus in the first place.
Obviously they're not happy about the situation.
Do they have any rights to be allowed to continue commuting and using their own car as they have been for 5 years? Or can the new conditions be imposed even if it means they'll have to leave the job?
I can understand that it's much more preferable for him to commute via car than via Bus. Unfortunately there's no obligation on his employer to facilitate this.
If the C1 is not an appropriate car then that's something that he needs to point out to management. If they insist that it is then they have to accept the consequences.
anonyrat39 said:
The new office is only a few miles away from the old one but has no parking ... and there's none within a couple of miles...
It's a 20 minute walk to the nearest bus stop, then 2 buses and a train to reach the new office. That would take about 2 hours each way... Compared to a 20 minute drive.
Drive to the nearest parking spot (2 miles, really?) and walk to the new office = 20 minute drive + 30 minute walk = 50 minutesIt's a 20 minute walk to the nearest bus stop, then 2 buses and a train to reach the new office. That would take about 2 hours each way... Compared to a 20 minute drive.
Gargamel said:
If the office is being relocated less than 25 miles away, then they have no statutory right to trigger redundancy.
I would like to see the statutory right that you believe exists that says that you can trigger redundancy if the relocation is 25+ miles...My suggestion would be to write to line management setting out their concerns, should they not get a satisfactory response turn this into a formal grievance stating that the employer is behaving unreasonably due to the additional travel time and enforcing a change that makes it difficult to fulfill the job requirements e.g. by having to carry tools etc on public transport. They need to think what they want to achieve though, if the move is a done deal and there really is no parking available then the only outcome might be a redundancy/mutually agreed exit/a bigger pool car - would any of these really be a better outcome for them?
HappySilver said:
I would like to see the statutory right that you believe exists that says that you can trigger redundancy if the relocation is 25+ miles...
My suggestion would be to write to line management setting out their concerns, should they not get a satisfactory response turn this into a formal grievance stating that the employer is behaving unreasonably due to the additional travel time and enforcing a change that makes it difficult to fulfill the job requirements e.g. by having to carry tools etc on public transport. They need to think what they want to achieve though, if the move is a done deal and there really is no parking available then the only outcome might be a redundancy/mutually agreed exit/a bigger pool car - would any of these really be a better outcome for them?
As writers always say, "Show, don't tell".My suggestion would be to write to line management setting out their concerns, should they not get a satisfactory response turn this into a formal grievance stating that the employer is behaving unreasonably due to the additional travel time and enforcing a change that makes it difficult to fulfill the job requirements e.g. by having to carry tools etc on public transport. They need to think what they want to achieve though, if the move is a done deal and there really is no parking available then the only outcome might be a redundancy/mutually agreed exit/a bigger pool car - would any of these really be a better outcome for them?
Writing a grievance will likely rock the boat. It'd be much safer to do some other things - like moving the tools into the office since there's no way to bring them otherwise, asking for the requirement to have a car to be removed from the contract since there's no point any more, and getting the health and safety man to take a look at the tools inside the C1 to see if it's safe to carry them like that.
As a council employee your friend might be unionised. It can be a bit pot luck but if his/her union rep is any good you may be able to get assistance there.
You say having a car is part of their "contract". But the new location will be required to use the pool car. Does this mean a contract change, if so might be some leverage there? If their job requires significant use of this pool car then a lot of people are going to be unhappy that the car is always booked for your friend.
Don't be afraid of boat rocking. Capsize it if that's whats needed I say! Initially as others have suggested a conversation with their manager (recorded, at least with contemporaneous notes) to see how the land lies. My partner was a council employee for a long time. The inertia of such organisations is not a myth but sometimes common sense can rule,
regards,
Jet
You say having a car is part of their "contract". But the new location will be required to use the pool car. Does this mean a contract change, if so might be some leverage there? If their job requires significant use of this pool car then a lot of people are going to be unhappy that the car is always booked for your friend.
Don't be afraid of boat rocking. Capsize it if that's whats needed I say! Initially as others have suggested a conversation with their manager (recorded, at least with contemporaneous notes) to see how the land lies. My partner was a council employee for a long time. The inertia of such organisations is not a myth but sometimes common sense can rule,
regards,
Jet
HappySilver said:
I would like to see the statutory right that you believe exists that says that you can trigger redundancy if the relocation is 25+ miles...
My suggestion would be to write to line management setting out their concerns, should they not get a satisfactory response turn this into a formal grievance stating that the employer is behaving unreasonably due to the additional travel time and enforcing a change that makes it difficult to fulfill the job requirements e.g. by having to carry tools etc on public transport. They need to think what they want to achieve though, if the move is a done deal and there really is no parking available then the only outcome might be a redundancy/mutually agreed exit/a bigger pool car - would any of these really be a better outcome for them?
Indeed 25 miles is an internal thing at my place. However employees have made claims for redundancy and won for shorter distance office moves. My suggestion would be to write to line management setting out their concerns, should they not get a satisfactory response turn this into a formal grievance stating that the employer is behaving unreasonably due to the additional travel time and enforcing a change that makes it difficult to fulfill the job requirements e.g. by having to carry tools etc on public transport. They need to think what they want to achieve though, if the move is a done deal and there really is no parking available then the only outcome might be a redundancy/mutually agreed exit/a bigger pool car - would any of these really be a better outcome for them?
Anyway, good advice in that post, suggest the OP's friend has a proper discussion with the manager.
Beetnik said:
anonyrat39 said:
The new office is only a few miles away from the old one but has no parking ... and there's none within a couple of miles...
It's a 20 minute walk to the nearest bus stop, then 2 buses and a train to reach the new office. That would take about 2 hours each way... Compared to a 20 minute drive.
Drive to the nearest parking spot (2 miles, really?) and walk to the new office = 20 minute drive + 30 minute walk = 50 minutesIt's a 20 minute walk to the nearest bus stop, then 2 buses and a train to reach the new office. That would take about 2 hours each way... Compared to a 20 minute drive.
Drive to the nearest parking spot (2 miles, really?) and cycle to the new office = 20 minute drive + 8 minute cycle = 28 minutes
anonyrat39 said:
A friend works for the council in a professional position, has been there for 5+ years. They have just found out that their office is being moved in a few months.
Their job requires a car - this is part of their contract. They spend about half of their work day driving between council locations and the other half at their office.
Probably explains why every council is so hugely unproductive. Their job requires a car - this is part of their contract. They spend about half of their work day driving between council locations and the other half at their office.
CAPP0 said:
Notwithstanding the OP's friend's situ, which does sound difficult, I do detest people taking approaches like the above. I know someone who has sat by and watched big projects fail, or at least stumble significantly, where for example he knew x days beforehand that some required equipment hadn't been provisioned for a specific task, because someone else whose responsibility it was had omitted to order it, but rather than point out to that person in advance that they need to place that order, he'd turn up on the day and sit on his hands chuckling at their f***-up and resolutely sticking to the "well it wasn't my job to order it" line.
Doesn't do anyone any favours and isn't likely to garner any sympathy from the powers that be.
I agree with the above.Doesn't do anyone any favours and isn't likely to garner any sympathy from the powers that be.
Plus no-one likes one of those types of wanchors.
I do feel sorry for your friend but legally I don't think there's much that can be done.
Being a public body you could protest or strike....
Beetnik said:
anonyrat39 said:
The new office is only a few miles away from the old one but has no parking ... and there's none within a couple of miles...
It's a 20 minute walk to the nearest bus stop, then 2 buses and a train to reach the new office. That would take about 2 hours each way... Compared to a 20 minute drive.
Drive to the nearest parking spot (2 miles, really?) and walk to the new office = 20 minute drive + 30 minute walk = 50 minutesIt's a 20 minute walk to the nearest bus stop, then 2 buses and a train to reach the new office. That would take about 2 hours each way... Compared to a 20 minute drive.
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