Charging customer for returns?
Discussion
I run a small business, I've sent out a parcel to someone who made an order. He requested the item be delivered to a friends address. The courier company tried to deliver the parcel on three separate occasions but no one was in. As a result the courier has returned the item to us, but for a cost of £16.
We have contacted the customer who has been hard to deal with and he has subsequently cancelled his order.
Our terms and conditions state in the website, that failed attempts to deliver will result in the customer paying for the returns by the courier.
What I want to know is can I deduct the £16 from the customers refund?
I've read this, "The Distance Selling Regulations state that your right to cancel an order starts the moment you place your order and doesn’t end until seven working days from the day after you RECEIVE your goods."
So as he has never received the item, could he argue he doesn't have to pay the courier fee?
So which stands ground my terms and conditions or could he wriggle out of it using the above quote or something else?
Thanks.
We have contacted the customer who has been hard to deal with and he has subsequently cancelled his order.
Our terms and conditions state in the website, that failed attempts to deliver will result in the customer paying for the returns by the courier.
What I want to know is can I deduct the £16 from the customers refund?
I've read this, "The Distance Selling Regulations state that your right to cancel an order starts the moment you place your order and doesn’t end until seven working days from the day after you RECEIVE your goods."
So as he has never received the item, could he argue he doesn't have to pay the courier fee?
So which stands ground my terms and conditions or could he wriggle out of it using the above quote or something else?
Thanks.
peter hh said:
I run a small business, I've sent out a parcel to someone who made an order. He requested the item be delivered to a friends address. The courier company tried to deliver the parcel on three separate occasions but no one was in. As a result the courier has returned the item to us, but for a cost of £16.
We have contacted the customer who has been hard to deal with and he has subsequently cancelled his order.
Our terms and conditions state in the website, that failed attempts to deliver will result in the customer paying for the returns by the courier.
What I want to know is can I deduct the £16 from the customers refund?
I've read this, "The Distance Selling Regulations state that your right to cancel an order starts the moment you place your order and doesn’t end until seven working days from the day after you RECEIVE your goods."
So as he has never received the item, could he argue he doesn't have to pay the courier fee?
So which stands ground my terms and conditions or could he wriggle out of it using the above quote or something else?
Thanks.
The Distance Selling Regulations are no more.We have contacted the customer who has been hard to deal with and he has subsequently cancelled his order.
Our terms and conditions state in the website, that failed attempts to deliver will result in the customer paying for the returns by the courier.
What I want to know is can I deduct the £16 from the customers refund?
I've read this, "The Distance Selling Regulations state that your right to cancel an order starts the moment you place your order and doesn’t end until seven working days from the day after you RECEIVE your goods."
So as he has never received the item, could he argue he doesn't have to pay the courier fee?
So which stands ground my terms and conditions or could he wriggle out of it using the above quote or something else?
Thanks.
Look at the Consumer Contracts Regulations.
I'd say charge them if you really must.
Personally I would refund him the whole amount, it's not worth the hassle, it won't go away and by giving a full refund you may retain them as a customer.
You could also argue that you haven't met your obligations in delivering the item (it's your courier) the delivery address shouldn't matter either, I know the joys of mail order and trust me your life is worth more than £16
You could also argue that you haven't met your obligations in delivering the item (it's your courier) the delivery address shouldn't matter either, I know the joys of mail order and trust me your life is worth more than £16
steve-5snwi said:
Personally I would refund him the whole amount, it's not worth the hassle, it won't go away and by giving a full refund you may retain them as a customer.
Who needs customers like that?I would deduct the full £16.00, explain this is what it has cost you, due to the carrier not being able to deliver to an address THREE times that HE nominated.
It smells a bit fishy to me, I would not have agreed to send the item to his "friends" address.
Lynchie999 said:
exactly .... a customer that doesn't take delivery, wants a refund and costs you £16 ?? no thanks...
Just the sort of customer that would complain bitterly about the charge, hassle you for days and cost you far more than £16 in aggro - and at the end of it would still go and find somewhere to write a bad review.I'd refund in full.
What should you do? What do you have to do?
I think you have to refund in full. The contract has been cancelled. You have to make a full refund of item and outbound postage charges. Were it delivered, you could (pre-sale) make it a term that he return at his own expense, but it wasn't delivered. You make it clear in your contract that the undelivered charge is part of the outbound postage so that's refundable.
I'd take a look at that return parcel charge term in your contract as well -- I suspect that's not going to be enforceable in a consumer contract.
I think you have to refund in full. The contract has been cancelled. You have to make a full refund of item and outbound postage charges. Were it delivered, you could (pre-sale) make it a term that he return at his own expense, but it wasn't delivered. You make it clear in your contract that the undelivered charge is part of the outbound postage so that's refundable.
I'd take a look at that return parcel charge term in your contract as well -- I suspect that's not going to be enforceable in a consumer contract.
7db said:
What should you do? What do you have to do?
I think you have to refund in full. The contract has been cancelled. You have to make a full refund of item and outbound postage charges. Were it delivered, you could (pre-sale) make it a term that he return at his own expense, but it wasn't delivered. You make it clear in your contract that the undelivered charge is part of the outbound postage so that's refundable.
I'd take a look at that return parcel charge term in your contract as well -- I suspect that's not going to be enforceable in a consumer contract.
This, this, and all of this.I think you have to refund in full. The contract has been cancelled. You have to make a full refund of item and outbound postage charges. Were it delivered, you could (pre-sale) make it a term that he return at his own expense, but it wasn't delivered. You make it clear in your contract that the undelivered charge is part of the outbound postage so that's refundable.
I'd take a look at that return parcel charge term in your contract as well -- I suspect that's not going to be enforceable in a consumer contract.
If you are dealing with consumers, now will be an opportune moment to go over your T&Cs and bring them up to date with consumer law. This is a relatively cheap but annoying issue, but a customer who knows his rights could leave you much more out of pocket if you and your contracts with suppliers are not where they should be.
How relevant is this para from the SoGA?
I still think you'll be better off refunding him in full and moving on though.
Sale of Goods Act said:
37 Buyer’s liability for not taking delivery of goods.
(1)When the seller is ready and willing to deliver the goods, and requests the buyer to take delivery, and the buyer does not within a reasonable time after such request take delivery of the goods, he is liable to the seller for any loss occasioned by his neglect or refusal to take delivery, and also for a reasonable charge for the care and custody of the goods.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/54(1)When the seller is ready and willing to deliver the goods, and requests the buyer to take delivery, and the buyer does not within a reasonable time after such request take delivery of the goods, he is liable to the seller for any loss occasioned by his neglect or refusal to take delivery, and also for a reasonable charge for the care and custody of the goods.
I still think you'll be better off refunding him in full and moving on though.
JustinP1 said:
7db said:
What should you do? What do you have to do?
I think you have to refund in full. The contract has been cancelled. You have to make a full refund of item and outbound postage charges. Were it delivered, you could (pre-sale) make it a term that he return at his own expense, but it wasn't delivered. You make it clear in your contract that the undelivered charge is part of the outbound postage so that's refundable.
I'd take a look at that return parcel charge term in your contract as well -- I suspect that's not going to be enforceable in a consumer contract.
This, this, and all of this.I think you have to refund in full. The contract has been cancelled. You have to make a full refund of item and outbound postage charges. Were it delivered, you could (pre-sale) make it a term that he return at his own expense, but it wasn't delivered. You make it clear in your contract that the undelivered charge is part of the outbound postage so that's refundable.
I'd take a look at that return parcel charge term in your contract as well -- I suspect that's not going to be enforceable in a consumer contract.
If you are dealing with consumers, now will be an opportune moment to go over your T&Cs and bring them up to date with consumer law. This is a relatively cheap but annoying issue, but a customer who knows his rights could leave you much more out of pocket if you and your contracts with suppliers are not where they should be.
peter hh said:
JustinP1 said:
7db said:
What should you do? What do you have to do?
I think you have to refund in full. The contract has been cancelled. You have to make a full refund of item and outbound postage charges. Were it delivered, you could (pre-sale) make it a term that he return at his own expense, but it wasn't delivered. You make it clear in your contract that the undelivered charge is part of the outbound postage so that's refundable.
I'd take a look at that return parcel charge term in your contract as well -- I suspect that's not going to be enforceable in a consumer contract.
This, this, and all of this.I think you have to refund in full. The contract has been cancelled. You have to make a full refund of item and outbound postage charges. Were it delivered, you could (pre-sale) make it a term that he return at his own expense, but it wasn't delivered. You make it clear in your contract that the undelivered charge is part of the outbound postage so that's refundable.
I'd take a look at that return parcel charge term in your contract as well -- I suspect that's not going to be enforceable in a consumer contract.
If you are dealing with consumers, now will be an opportune moment to go over your T&Cs and bring them up to date with consumer law. This is a relatively cheap but annoying issue, but a customer who knows his rights could leave you much more out of pocket if you and your contracts with suppliers are not where they should be.
peter hh said:
peter hh said:
JustinP1 said:
7db said:
What should you do? What do you have to do?
I think you have to refund in full. The contract has been cancelled. You have to make a full refund of item and outbound postage charges. Were it delivered, you could (pre-sale) make it a term that he return at his own expense, but it wasn't delivered. You make it clear in your contract that the undelivered charge is part of the outbound postage so that's refundable.
I'd take a look at that return parcel charge term in your contract as well -- I suspect that's not going to be enforceable in a consumer contract.
This, this, and all of this.I think you have to refund in full. The contract has been cancelled. You have to make a full refund of item and outbound postage charges. Were it delivered, you could (pre-sale) make it a term that he return at his own expense, but it wasn't delivered. You make it clear in your contract that the undelivered charge is part of the outbound postage so that's refundable.
I'd take a look at that return parcel charge term in your contract as well -- I suspect that's not going to be enforceable in a consumer contract.
If you are dealing with consumers, now will be an opportune moment to go over your T&Cs and bring them up to date with consumer law. This is a relatively cheap but annoying issue, but a customer who knows his rights could leave you much more out of pocket if you and your contracts with suppliers are not where they should be.
If you do a Google, there's some Which and CAB documents about it from a consumer's point of view, and there'll be some industry focussed ones with some more in depth examples of what businesses have to do.
peter hh said:
I've read this, "The Distance Selling Regulations state that your right to cancel an order starts the moment you place your order and doesn’t end until seven working days from the day after you RECEIVE your goods."
The Distance Selling Regulations ceased to apply in UK law on 13th June 2014. They were replaced by The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013.The statutory period is 14 days not 7. See Section 30(3) - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regul...
To make things even more difficult for you are Section 28(2) and 28(3) of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/sectio...
Unless you and the consumer have agreed otherwise you are obliged to effect delivery within 30 days. It doesn't matter what the courier does, or doesn't do.
peter hh said:
So as he has never received the item, could he argue he doesn't have to pay the courier fee?
The above mentioned obligation can create a potential problem for you. Many couriers have T&Cs which don't do the consignor any favours.You would also need to establish what the courier actually did to try and effect delivery on each occasion.
It is quite possible it did not communicate properly/effectively with the person at the delivery address.
If so, you might find yourself embroiled in a time wasting dispute.
peter hh said:
So which stands ground my terms and conditions or could he wriggle out of it using the above quote or something else?
The term in your T&Cs may not be in breach of any consumer regulations, but you need to take a pragmatic view of your erstwhile customer.If you make the deduction is he going to kick off and demand the £16 back? If so, you then have to take a further view on that.
How much is your time worth? However much it grates it may be more cost effective to draw a line under it now, refund in full, and move on.
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