Leisure boat design and safety
Discussion
Most leisure boaters are probably familiar with the issues of stuffing a bow rider into a wave, or find out very quickly how that design can be unsuitable for many conditions. Some of us are also familiar with the issues of a following sea.
I have been looking at sportscruisers lately, and am starting to wonder about the impact of stern / transom design upon simple seamanship errors when in following / confused seas.
Many builders seem to have done away with the transom. Take a look at the Crownline below for just one example, and the deck is lower than the transom door. The potential for a swamping over the stern just looks so real.
Is it just me, or does that look downright dangerous in a novice hands - as into which many power cruisers of this size tend to fall?
I have been looking at sportscruisers lately, and am starting to wonder about the impact of stern / transom design upon simple seamanship errors when in following / confused seas.
Many builders seem to have done away with the transom. Take a look at the Crownline below for just one example, and the deck is lower than the transom door. The potential for a swamping over the stern just looks so real.
Is it just me, or does that look downright dangerous in a novice hands - as into which many power cruisers of this size tend to fall?
Edited by SeeFive on Saturday 26th November 10:39
It will have an RCD rating which stipulates the conditions including sea state that the vessel can safely operate in. This one I imagine would be a C rated vessel which is something like up to a force 6 and 2m swell. Basically inshore waters I think, only danger of being "pooped" is in a tidal race off a big point like Portland or the Lizard, so if you don't have to go around one of those it should be perfect. I for one love the ease of walking on and off the stern.
That sun pad on the back is covered to prevent the manufacturer getting sued in the manual, and no doubt by lots of idiot stickers near to it. Essentially, it probably advises the seat back to be placed in the sitting forward position, and all the usual caveats on US boats of not using a sunpad under way.
Wrt the recreational craft directive, even with a cat C likely from 2002 rather than B it may have got earlier (it may actually have a B, I am not sure as it could be an old model certification pre 2002 directive), I still wouldn't want a 2 metre wave hitting me up the bum in that!
Relying too much on the RCD reminds me of the Bayliner 245 lost with 3 souls crossing the bar in Whitby in 2007. New owner of a self-imported US 24 foot boat given cat B against the old model and pre 2002 RCD. Owner had just a few hours of experience with that craft in calm conditions and took it out in 4metre plus seas, and tried to cross a confused and large Whitby bar.
A very sad story, lots of owner confusion over radios and safety kit, but basically adventure aided by a false sense of security based on inexperience on that (or frankly any other) craft, lack of training / passage planning / risk assessment capability and at the end of the day, perhaps a "certified for big seas, so it must be OK' attitude as the coastguard and everyone else tried to stop them leaving port.
MAIB report here... Sad reading
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/547...
Wrt the recreational craft directive, even with a cat C likely from 2002 rather than B it may have got earlier (it may actually have a B, I am not sure as it could be an old model certification pre 2002 directive), I still wouldn't want a 2 metre wave hitting me up the bum in that!
Relying too much on the RCD reminds me of the Bayliner 245 lost with 3 souls crossing the bar in Whitby in 2007. New owner of a self-imported US 24 foot boat given cat B against the old model and pre 2002 RCD. Owner had just a few hours of experience with that craft in calm conditions and took it out in 4metre plus seas, and tried to cross a confused and large Whitby bar.
A very sad story, lots of owner confusion over radios and safety kit, but basically adventure aided by a false sense of security based on inexperience on that (or frankly any other) craft, lack of training / passage planning / risk assessment capability and at the end of the day, perhaps a "certified for big seas, so it must be OK' attitude as the coastguard and everyone else tried to stop them leaving port.
MAIB report here... Sad reading
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/547...
Edited by SeeFive on Saturday 26th November 21:25
Simpo Two said:
Unfortunately 'categories' don't stop the careless or the foolish getting into danger. And that is perhaps the greatest risk - we think that everything is 'safe' so we stop thinking and being aware.
In the inland scene, the RCD is different from the BSS... both can't be right...
Totally agree. Which kinda leads back to my original question. That stern and the potential outcome it could have with an inexperienced user, quite likely to buy such a boat. - and then plod out of harbour in a 2 metre force five following sea... And stuff the bow into a wave... And get hit by the one behind... And flood the cockpit, cabin, drown the engine... And so on... In short, I wouldn't fancy being on that with 2 metres following meIn the inland scene, the RCD is different from the BSS... both can't be right...
That design just seems to be asking for trouble, and Crownline are not the only ones. I have seen the same set up on Four Winns, Cranchi and many others from 2003/4 onwards.
Hydraulics like that in the stern would be costly and troublesome. I honestly think there is a a bit too much overreaction to a boat designed for a bit of fun. In most sea states surely a 2m swell would just roll underneath and the boat looks like a veritable cork! People get it wrong and endanger life in every vessel type know to man, including professionals. The leisure boat a fairly fragile industry, so they have to give people what they want, within reason.
Boats like that are not really designed for the sea, even though they may be rated as such, its only in expert hands that they will prevail. In the US the vast majority of boating is done in calm inland or sheltered coastal waters. So designs like the above are ideally suited to such environments.
If your local boating environment is basically straight out into the open North Sea, then a boat like that is a very poor choice as it's only comfortable, or of any use in rare calm conditions.
As far as that accident went, it's almost unbelievable that upon approach to the harbour entrance and seeing the obvious heavy seas they continued on. When you are low down and close to the water as you are in a small boat, wave height and severity is even more obvious and intimidating.
If your local boating environment is basically straight out into the open North Sea, then a boat like that is a very poor choice as it's only comfortable, or of any use in rare calm conditions.
As far as that accident went, it's almost unbelievable that upon approach to the harbour entrance and seeing the obvious heavy seas they continued on. When you are low down and close to the water as you are in a small boat, wave height and severity is even more obvious and intimidating.
SeeFive said:
MAIB report here... Sad reading
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/547...
Sad reading indeed,I've seen those very conditions there. Working in the North Sea off the Yorkshire coast it only brings it home,although I'm known to spit my dummy out on a 27m boat in 2-3m waves so I wouldn't be getting in to that situation,it's so sad that they didn't hear the warning from the RNLI man on the radio when he could see what was about to happen.https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/547...
Edited by SeeFive on Saturday 26th November 21:25
Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff